EVE General Discussion

This is novel, I'm in agreement with Tippia at someone else being deliberately & wilfully ignorant as to what is actually being discussed. Scipio, you have somehow avoided reading the Op properly and avoided every single post explaining what he was talking about.

He was discussing how new players are told a lie because they are told Implants are useless until you are training lvl 5 skills. Nothing to do on if they should be training lvl 5 skills.

You are quite simply discussing something the whole conversation is not about. That is pretty much it.

The benefit from skills have nothing to do with the topic. It quite simply is about the training speed you gain from Implants and in that regard it quite simply does not matter if you train a level 5 or X level 1 skills. The benefit in terms of training time will be the same.

I think it's speaking purely in the benefit of accessibility.

As a new player, focusing on training skills to level 4 instead of level 5 is potentially more beneficial because the time that would've been locked up training to level 5 then gets diverted into possibly opening up more avenues/paths of game play.

While 10000 points in 5 hours is 10000 points in 5 hours, not counting skills that require level 5 prerequisites, you can train more skills to an acceptable level, but not affecting the end outcome of total skill points trained.

I think all arguments are valid, it's just different parties are focusing on different goals/objectives.

Also, being a new player, I've spent zero time training with the benefit of implants. Considering how many skill points I'm going to have and how many I'll never have, I don't find it absolutely necessary to be going at "maximum" potential because regardless of what goal I want to reach I know I'll get there eventually.

When I'm faced with needing multiple level 5's because it's the final obstacle preventing me from reaching that next plateau of accessibility, I'll probably seriously begin considering the benefits of implants.

But he's right, for someone not necessarily concerned with the "max", implants to me don't seem as important as they will be when focused with months of time required to advance.

…which was never in question to begin with. Rather, the question is the preposterous notion that implants make a bigger difference for that last level than for the ones preceding it, which has no basis in reality.

This, too, is easily disproven by simple maths. The benefit provided by those paltry 750 SP is greater than anything the new player will train in a very very long time, and the time required to recuperate that cost is vanishingly small on the scale of things.

Never heard that implants are useless at any point. Similar things that I believe are right:

1) don't use above 3s if you get podded sometimes. lvl 4 and 5 implants are much too expensive to justify the +1/+2 if you die
2) Don't train for level 5 implants early, as they have long return time, and you need your skills to play.

Now back to the topic:
Accumulated SP is very important for character at any stage. Skills in eve aren't only prerequisites. Their main role (in my eyes - maybe someone will have different opinion) is the +% increase. So yeah - when the dude uses +3 implants he will mine more, and earlier. No matter if he's training from 0 or from 10's of milions of xp - the gain is there and accumulates visibly over time.

Balshem is an alt I started for pve originaly and never bothered to buy implants for him. He's 15 days younger than my main, yet my Caldari toon has 1.5 M SP more. This is huge.

Or, in other words, if you don't use implants and try to pvp at the beginning of the 2nd month of game you will have those t2 weapons, but you will prolly fly 10% slower, turn 5% worse, and do 15% less dps. So yeah - get these +3s at least, and learn to spam warp at celestial before your ship dies.

Then - go for +4s, and enjoy the SP race with your corpmates. It's more of a pvp than trade :P

2nd post ("like" at least one and I will go away). Just to explain a bit better.

The argument about absolute time holds when you consider the skills to be prerequisites. When someone want to get into a rifter he needs to train minmatar frig to level1 and then implants make close to 0 difference - I agree. And then - you can suddenly see the difference implants give you if you want to get into proteus. Because prerequisites for that ship are much more harsh.

But eve doesn't work this way, and it's repeated on this forum numerous times by pretty much anyone claiming to have any idea about this game. You don't just "get into a rifter" or get "into a proteus" - you need numerous SP to make that ship work. And then, all of sudden, this absolute time is insignificant, because you want to know how good you will be in a month of continuous skilling. You don't want "faction ammo" or "t2 ammo" only. You want that and +3% to firing speed also. Because it will count. The seconds (if not minutes/hours) you've saved while leveling skills to 4 will add up, and result in you being faster in getting to your goal.

Also - what is the only thing in EVE you cannot create, or buy? The queue time. You can farm isk 24/7 and you will not be able to buy a day of skilling. Because of that I believe ignoring implants altogether is the only irreplaceable loss eve has. (Or grind like a maniac and buy a toon - if you can afford it then sure: do not buy a single implant. Why would you bother?)

TL;DR - the basic unit for character development in eve is a month. You want so much after a month, so implants help. Absolute time difference is an illusion, because the %s will accumulate over the time to give you more skills. Also - isk can be replaced while the time cannot. Buy the implants.

No - it's not like that. You can use your time to get the isk to get the implants, but you cannot grind to speed the skilling up process directly. So you cannot make up for not buying the implants. If you didn't use implants for 3 months, and then start to use them all of sudden you've still lost 3 months of the gain the implants give. You can argue that you can save up and buy better implants but still: 1)isk can be created/acquired, the 3 months can't. 2) relative increase in skilling speed would not most probably justify skpping the said 3 months

ISK isn't problem these days, if it is for you then try to make more in some way, because it is possible, but the time you could be training something else you can not negotiate.

You are doing it wrong if that's the case.

Bonus is the same in percentage, but the gain in days and hours is much more for lvl 5 then lvl 1 and that is what people wanted to say to him.