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Character Name Change when "buying" a toon

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Sintiar Loffwagea
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#61 - 2014-03-13 17:16:17 UTC
so even all civilization on earth can change their first name and last name and why eve character can't ? so i need to change my first name i going to central and write information and write my wish name and it's done IRL . but in eve i buy 5 year character and can't change name . ... . . . .. . .... . . . . ....... . even 10 of plex for one thing people do want that they will do like their wish if they see a value on it's actions. Big smile isn't like CCP concept ? u can even change your face name and nationality in 3 country in IRL .

it's doesn't break CCP Concepts .
Renegade Dussault
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#62 - 2014-03-13 17:58:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Renegade Dussault
Julius Rigel wrote:
Renegade Dussault wrote:
im not saying give us a name change in game, like the skill remapping feature.. just when you buy a toon from someone else.
That means you can get a name change for your own 'toon for the reasonable price of transferring that 'toon to another one of your own accounts plus the name-change fee. So essentially 3 PLEX for a name change, or 5 if you want to put him back on his original account.

I think many scammers and Awoxers would be more than happy to pay a half-dozen PLEX to clean their slate and keep their skills. A clean slate is incredibly valuable in EVE.

Just imagine name-changing a five year old character - all the benefits of an old character, and you can even provide a full API key to the CEO of your next juicy corp-theft target, and he will be none the wiser.

Aside from those strategical benefits, there's also the issue of the premise of the game. CCP intends EVE to be a game in which your actions and choices, both good and bad, malicious or mistake, are supposed to have meaning and consequence within the game world, and they run the game according to those ideas. Your character's name is one of the most fundamental choices you make in EVE. Aside from choosing the size of your ears, your name is the first thing you pick when you make a character, and the last thing you leave behind when you quit.

It seems to me that the name of a character is as much a part of the product as the skillpoints, and you should plan accordingly when buying and (especially) when selling.

Oh, also, this isn't the facebook, we're not here to "like and favorite" your forum post. It's not good form to beg for internet points. Not even on the internet.


i am not begging for likes.. i don't know where you pull that crap from. it would simply show who is for this idea without having to read all of the thread, even tho i encourage everyone to do so.. in order to get a better idea of what is suggested.

EDIT: you also have a misconception of the idea.. nobody spoke of a "clean name" when the change will be made.
Renegade Dussault
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#63 - 2014-03-13 18:02:14 UTC
Jint Hikaru wrote:
Renegade Dussault wrote:
Jint Hikaru wrote:
I think its very evident that I am never going to support name changes in any form, but I just wanted to add a question that your suggestion is going to bring up from a lot of other players.


Why do people who buy characters get name changes and people who play their characters from the start can't???


because you CHOSE your character name, like i chose mine. people that buy the character from the bazaar are forced to use a name because the skills and price range of that toon fits what they are looking for... when they buy that toon, they input money to CCP. a simple name change when the transaction is done would be a way to personalize that toon so that it feels a bit more like "yours" now that it is yours..

i thought i had that covered in my 1st post tho..

of course some, very few people, will use this to their "advantage" to have a "clean name" like stated countless of times.. but this can be countered by some simple yet effective changes in the game. and most of it is already in place (contact list)

hope i answered your question.


You are not 'Forced' to use a name in the Bazaar, if a name is so important to you, make it one of your selection criteria when buying a character.

As far as i can see if CCP allows name changes on bazaar characters it would open the floodgates for anyone to request a change. I've seen the posts, "waaa i created my toon when i was 13 and thought 'MrMassiveBoner' was a cool name, I want to change it".... "I no longer like the name Metallica-Rulez because I am into Justin Beiber now"....



Anyway. I'm going to leave this thread now. We are not going to change each others minds on this. I've said my piece and stood up to be counted against your idea.

Good Luck & Fly Safe!!!


yes every single point that you raised has been answered. none of your point stood. they are very easily addressed.

thanks for passing by. fly dangerous.
Seliah
Red Cloud Vigil
#64 - 2014-03-13 18:03:02 UTC
Renegade Dussault wrote:

because you CHOSE your character name, like i chose mine. people that buy the character from the bazaar are forced to use a name because the skills and price range of that toon fits what they are looking for..


That's exactly where you are wrong, really. When you buy a character you are not forced to do anything, you CHOSE to buy a character with this name. You say you're looking for specific skills and price range when buying a character ... Well, if the name matters to you, add this to your criteria list, end of story.
Renegade Dussault
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#65 - 2014-03-13 18:10:39 UTC
Seliah wrote:
Renegade Dussault wrote:

because you CHOSE your character name, like i chose mine. people that buy the character from the bazaar are forced to use a name because the skills and price range of that toon fits what they are looking for..


That's exactly where you are wrong, really. When you buy a character you are not forced to do anything, you CHOSE to buy a character with this name. You say you're looking for specific skills and price range when buying a character ... Well, if the name matters to you, add this to your criteria list, end of story.


so what are you saying? adding for criteria: also the toon has to be named Renegade Zed .. that i will get a toon named Renegade Zed? (joking of course)

you can add what ever criteria you want to your buy order.. you will still have a name pre-determined by someone else's brain. the chances to get a name that you actually would have picked yourself is very low.. add to that the skills that you want for that toon and the price range.. the probability to get a toon who respects all of your criteria would be very low. not saying it's impossible. but still very low.

a simple name change option mechanic added when you buy from the bazaar would fix this issue, which you could accept (with fee) or decline (something like around in the character selection screen). im not saying it's a huge issue. but it's a bit more important than adding clothes in the game lol (referring to another thread)
Anhenka
The New Federation
Sigma Grindset
#66 - 2014-03-13 18:25:20 UTC
This thread is the trollthread that just keeps giving. Someone proposes it at least once a week on a regular basis, and it always turns into the same tired thing pattern.

An OP proposes name changes, either by plex at anytime or during a char transfer.

The large majority of the people say it's a terrible idea, and explain why they think it's a bad idea.

OP insists that it's not, and that adding it to an info tab in their character sheet solves all the issues.

Everyone tells him that's not true, that name recognition is an important part of a person, that the char trading limitation can be bypassed by trading it to yourself, and that it's not something they want in the game. That being able to recognize notorious pirates, cyno killers, hotdroppers, scammers, etc etc by name without examining every character sheet of everyone in local for past aliases is important.

OP insists that it is fine, has no problems, get's cranky, that having the character sheet tab is sufficient, devolves into personal attacks and telling everyone who does not agree with him to leave the thread.

ISD shows up to lock the thread after far too long, for a litany of reasons. (Since ISD introduction ofc)

This little show repeats far too often. A quick search shows this exact same pattern happens on a very regular basis back to at least 2006. Like clockwork
Mag's
Azn Empire
#67 - 2014-03-13 18:25:33 UTC
Renegade Dussault wrote:

might be answered to the response i gave to scimichar

"i think you don't get it.. did you read? this would be only for people that bought a character from the bazaar.. the timer on the name change added to the price of it (name change option plus the character transfer) would make it a bit expansive for someone to just do it for a clean name.. and there is the contact list for that (just thought of that).. if someone is red it would stay red in that contact list.. wouldn't change much


EDIT: "would make it a bit expansive for someone to just do it for a clean name"
to that i would add that if it is done properly (history tracking of name change), in about 2 seconds all the money spent changing his name for a "cleaner name" would be wasted "
I do get it, you obviously do not.

Being Bazaar only, does not remove the option from those not actually selling their character. That is the point and one you've failed to see, or comprehend.

As far as cost is concerned, it would cost 2 or 3 Plex according to you. Some would gladly pay that.

But going to the crux of the matter, if you are buying a character, you are buying someone's time and effort. This includes the name and the choice you'll have to make is whether or not you like it. You are not forced to have a character with a bad name, you can in fact wait till one comes with a name you like.

You not liking a name, or not having the patience to wait, is no justification for changing Eve in such a drastic manner.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Renegade Dussault
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#68 - 2014-03-13 18:29:54 UTC
Mag's wrote:
Renegade Dussault wrote:

might be answered to the response i gave to scimichar

"i think you don't get it.. did you read? this would be only for people that bought a character from the bazaar.. the timer on the name change added to the price of it (name change option plus the character transfer) would make it a bit expansive for someone to just do it for a clean name.. and there is the contact list for that (just thought of that).. if someone is red it would stay red in that contact list.. wouldn't change much


EDIT: "would make it a bit expansive for someone to just do it for a clean name"
to that i would add that if it is done properly (history tracking of name change), in about 2 seconds all the money spent changing his name for a "cleaner name" would be wasted "
I do get it, you obviously do not.

Being Bazaar only, does not remove the option from those not actually selling their character. That is the point and one you've failed to see, or comprehend.

As far as cost is concerned, it would cost 2 or 3 Plex according to you. Some would gladly pay that.

But going to the crux of the matter, if you are buying a character, you are buying someone's time and effort. This includes the name and the choice you'll have to make is whether or not you like it. You are not forced to have a character with a bad name, you can in fact wait till one comes with a name you like.

You not liking a name, or not having the patience to wait, is no justification for changing Eve in such a drastic manner.


you say that you understand, but with everything you just said, you clearly show that you don't.
Renegade Dussault
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#69 - 2014-03-13 18:31:35 UTC
Anhenka wrote:
This thread is the trollthread that just keeps giving. Someone proposes it at least once a week on a regular basis, and it always turns into the same tired thing pattern.

An OP proposes name changes, either by plex at anytime or during a char transfer.

The large majority of the people say it's a terrible idea, and explain why they think it's a bad idea.

OP insists that it's not, and that adding it to an info tab in their character sheet solves all the issues.

Everyone tells him that's not true, that name recognition is an important part of a person, that the char trading limitation can be bypassed by trading it to yourself, and that it's not something they want in the game. That being able to recognize notorious pirates, cyno killers, hotdroppers, scammers, etc etc by name without examining every character sheet of everyone in local for past aliases is important.

OP insists that it is fine, has no problems, get's cranky, that having the character sheet tab is sufficient, devolves into personal attacks and telling everyone who does not agree with him to leave the thread.

ISD shows up to lock the thread after far too long, for a litany of reasons. (Since ISD introduction ofc)

This little show repeats far too often. A quick search shows this exact same pattern happens on a very regular basis back to at least 2006. Like clockwork


a troll that points out that other people are trolling lol now that's funny and original... not.

you generalize a lot in your post. did you take the time to read the suggestions made by people who support this? btw your post is irrelevent, and doesn't help to fix this issue. keep on trolling i guess..
Anhenka
The New Federation
Sigma Grindset
#70 - 2014-03-13 18:36:26 UTC
Renegade Dussault wrote:

a troll that points out that other people are trolling lol now that's funny and original... not.

you generalize a lot in your post. did you take the time to read the suggestions made by people who support this? btw your post is irrelevent, and doesn't help to fix this issue. keep on trolling i guess..

Yup. I read them. And the same arguments in the same thread we had on this topic last week. And the week before. And the week before. Continue ad naseum.

It's always the same arguments on both sides, devolves into the same namecalling and bickering, with the person proposing the idea always insisting that there is no problem, and the people on the other side stating there is.

But frankly, the fact that this threads have been going on regularly for over a decade, hundreds of threads on the same topic, and absolutely no support by CCP for the idea, is a fairly telling indication of this ideas chance.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#71 - 2014-03-13 18:38:28 UTC
Renegade Dussault wrote:
Mag's wrote:
Renegade Dussault wrote:

might be answered to the response i gave to scimichar

"i think you don't get it.. did you read? this would be only for people that bought a character from the bazaar.. the timer on the name change added to the price of it (name change option plus the character transfer) would make it a bit expansive for someone to just do it for a clean name.. and there is the contact list for that (just thought of that).. if someone is red it would stay red in that contact list.. wouldn't change much


EDIT: "would make it a bit expansive for someone to just do it for a clean name"
to that i would add that if it is done properly (history tracking of name change), in about 2 seconds all the money spent changing his name for a "cleaner name" would be wasted "
I do get it, you obviously do not.

Being Bazaar only, does not remove the option from those not actually selling their character. That is the point and one you've failed to see, or comprehend.

As far as cost is concerned, it would cost 2 or 3 Plex according to you. Some would gladly pay that.

But going to the crux of the matter, if you are buying a character, you are buying someone's time and effort. This includes the name and the choice you'll have to make is whether or not you like it. You are not forced to have a character with a bad name, you can in fact wait till one comes with a name you like.

You not liking a name, or not having the patience to wait, is no justification for changing Eve in such a drastic manner.


you say that you understand, but with everything you just said, you clearly show that you don't.
I've explained that your Bazaar only limitation, is not a limitation at all. You've failed to show otherwise and address any concerns I raised.

Should I now say, "you bring nothing relevant to the conversation"?

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Ines Tegator
Serious Business Inc. Ltd. LLC. etc.
#72 - 2014-03-13 18:43:55 UTC
No, for reasons discussed.

However, I would like to see 'character sold on bazaar' added to employment history.

Overhaul Dscan!
Renegade Dussault
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#73 - 2014-03-13 18:45:13 UTC
Anhenka wrote:
Renegade Dussault wrote:

a troll that points out that other people are trolling lol now that's funny and original... not.

you generalize a lot in your post. did you take the time to read the suggestions made by people who support this? btw your post is irrelevent, and doesn't help to fix this issue. keep on trolling i guess..

Yup. I read them. And the same arguments in the same thread we had on this topic last week. And the week before. And the week before. Continue ad naseum.

It's always the same arguments on both sides, devolves into the same namecalling and bickering, with the person proposing the idea always insisting that there is no problem, and the people on the other side stating there is.

But frankly, the fact that this threads have been going on regularly for over a decade, hundreds of threads on the same topic, and absolutely no support by CCP for the idea, is a fairly telling indication of this ideas chance.


if this thread has been going for so long, is there any official CCP thread that explains why they ignore the multitude of requests for this issue?
Renegade Dussault
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#74 - 2014-03-13 18:47:29 UTC
Mag's wrote:
Renegade Dussault wrote:
Mag's wrote:
Renegade Dussault wrote:

might be answered to the response i gave to scimichar

"i think you don't get it.. did you read? this would be only for people that bought a character from the bazaar.. the timer on the name change added to the price of it (name change option plus the character transfer) would make it a bit expansive for someone to just do it for a clean name.. and there is the contact list for that (just thought of that).. if someone is red it would stay red in that contact list.. wouldn't change much


EDIT: "would make it a bit expansive for someone to just do it for a clean name"
to that i would add that if it is done properly (history tracking of name change), in about 2 seconds all the money spent changing his name for a "cleaner name" would be wasted "
I do get it, you obviously do not.

Being Bazaar only, does not remove the option from those not actually selling their character. That is the point and one you've failed to see, or comprehend.

As far as cost is concerned, it would cost 2 or 3 Plex according to you. Some would gladly pay that.

But going to the crux of the matter, if you are buying a character, you are buying someone's time and effort. This includes the name and the choice you'll have to make is whether or not you like it. You are not forced to have a character with a bad name, you can in fact wait till one comes with a name you like.

You not liking a name, or not having the patience to wait, is no justification for changing Eve in such a drastic manner.


you say that you understand, but with everything you just said, you clearly show that you don't.
I've explained that your Bazaar only limitation, is not a limitation at all. You've failed to show otherwise and address any concerns I raised.

Should I now say, "you bring nothing relevant to the conversation"?



"I've explained that your Bazaar only limitation, is not a limitation at all. You've failed to show otherwise and address any concerns I raised."

limitation? this is not the subject of the thread.. explain yourself at least. then may be i could try and answer.. what concerns?
Renegade Dussault
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#75 - 2014-03-13 18:48:43 UTC
Ines Tegator wrote:
No, for reasons discussed.

However, I would like to see 'character sold on bazaar' added to employment history.


would you like to add more info.. what reasons discussed?
Anhenka
The New Federation
Sigma Grindset
#76 - 2014-03-13 18:49:06 UTC
Renegade Dussault wrote:

if this thread has been going for so long, is there any official CCP thread that explains why they ignore the multitude of requests for this issue?


No. Cause it's not their job to tell us why it's bad.

It's our idea to take an idea, discuss it, refine it, and get to to a state where it has a large enough amount of community support to attract CCP's attention, either by them reading the forum (And they do), or having a CSM discuss it with them after he reads it. And then they may choose to, or choose not to reply in a public manner on a public forum.

Why should they bother policing threads to tell people it's a bad idea when we obviously have plenty of people willing to explain for free exactly why your idea is bad?
Renegade Dussault
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#77 - 2014-03-13 18:50:38 UTC
Barbara Nichole wrote:
No. This would be abused.. character laundering would become a popular thing. Part of the draw back for committing offenses in game should be that the rep could possibly make it harder to unload the character in the bazaar.


you clearly didn't read anything posted in here... not sure how it could be abused.. why don't you try to explain a bit more what you mean.
Renegade Dussault
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#78 - 2014-03-13 18:53:25 UTC
Anhenka wrote:
Renegade Dussault wrote:

if this thread has been going for so long, is there any official CCP thread that explains why they ignore the multitude of requests for this issue?


No. Cause it's not their job to tell us why it's bad.

It's our idea to take an idea, discuss it, refine it, and get to to a state where it has a large enough amount of community support to attract CCP's attention, either by them reading the forum (And they do), or having a CSM discuss it with them after he reads it. And then they may choose to, or choose not to reply in a public manner on a public forum.

Why should they bother policing threads to tell people it's a bad idea when we obviously have plenty of people willing to explain for free exactly why your idea is bad?


"Why should they bother policing threads to tell people it's a bad idea when we obviously have plenty of people willing to explain for free exactly why your idea is bad?"

why is YOUR opinion, better than mine? ever thought that just because no official response has been made to this issue, it's exactly why it comes back so often.. i wasn't aware that this thread was so popular.. otherwise i would have given an answer in a thread already opened.
Anhenka
The New Federation
Sigma Grindset
#79 - 2014-03-13 19:15:58 UTC
Renegade Dussault wrote:

why is YOUR opinion, better than mine? ever thought that just because no official response has been made to this issue, it's exactly why it comes back so often.. i wasn't aware that this thread was so popular.. otherwise i would have given an answer in a thread already opened.


It's not. But people including me have raised issues with your idea that are not included under your solution of "Include a previous name section to the character sheet"

1. Players can transfer chars to their own account, allowing them to change their own names.

2. Recognizing players in local/chat channels for their previous actions is a very important part of knowledge in the game.

3. The name of your character is an important part of who you are, and a permanent part of the choices you make, just like killing others, scamming, awoxing, faction standings, etc, all of which are associated with the ideal "______ did that."

4. Where do names display where? If you killed a player under an old name, then changed it, does the old killmail display the current name or the one at the time? How about on killboards? Official forums? Unoficcal API linked forums? Do any of them backdate with name changes? Who determines what gets shown where?

5. API tools currently designed to track things like kills, locations, assets, etc, as well as killboards are not currently built with this capability: It would require substantial alterations to the API system and many third party tools in order to track these correctly across name changes so that recruiters don't have to examine every single previous psuedonym individually for discrepancies.

6. Issues arising with the alteration of names and the resculpting of avatars permitting much easier impersonation of another person, something CCP has stated to be banworthy and has placed additional recent restrictions recently in order to fight.

And the really really big one : MOST PEOPLE ACTIVELY SAY THEY DON'T WANT THIS TO BE A PART OF THE GAME!

You can incorrectly insist there is no problems all you want without addressing the issues, but between the large amount of work that it would take to implement the idea, and the massive amount of community opposition, for the sole purpose of letting people who bought a char with a name they dislike change the name, this idea is already long dead in the water. Dead, decayed, the bones scattered and ground into sand by the passing of 10 years of threads rolling over them repeatedly.
Renegade Dussault
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#80 - 2014-03-13 19:40:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Renegade Dussault
Anhenka wrote:
Renegade Dussault wrote:

why is YOUR opinion, better than mine? ever thought that just because no official response has been made to this issue, it's exactly why it comes back so often.. i wasn't aware that this thread was so popular.. otherwise i would have given an answer in a thread already opened.


It's not. But people including me have raised issues with your idea that are not included under your solution of "Include a previous name section to the character sheet"

1. Players can transfer chars to their own account, allowing them to change their own names.

2. Recognizing players in local/chat channels for their previous actions is a very important part of knowledge in the game.

3. The name of your character is an important part of who you are, and a permanent part of the choices you make, just like killing others, scamming, awoxing, faction standings, etc, all of which are associated with the ideal "______ did that."

4. Where do names display where? If you killed a player under an old name, then changed it, does the old killmail display the current name or the one at the time? How about on killboards? Official forums? Unoficcal API linked forums? Do any of them backdate with name changes? Who determines what gets shown where?

5. API tools currently designed to track things like kills, locations, assets, etc, as well as killboards are not currently built with this capability: It would require substantial alterations to the API system and many third party tools in order to track these correctly across name changes so that recruiters don't have to examine every single previous psuedonym individually for discrepancies.

6. Issues arising with the alteration of names and the resculpting of avatars permitting much easier impersonation of another person, something CCP has stated to be banworthy and has placed additional recent restrictions recently in order to fight.

And the really really big one : MOST PEOPLE ACTIVELY SAY THEY DON'T WANT THIS TO BE A PART OF THE GAME!

You can incorrectly insist there is no problems all you want without addressing the issues, but between the large amount of work that it would take to implement the idea, and the massive amount of community opposition, for the sole purpose of letting people who bought a char with a name they dislike change the name, this idea is already long dead in the water. Dead, decayed, the bones scattered and ground into sand by the passing of 10 years of threads rolling over them repeatedly.



1. what does it change if someone would use it to change its own name? again it wouldn't provide any advantage in the game .. they would have to pay for everything .. and wouldn't provide any "clean name" like previously stated.

2. this has been answered.. contact list provides the intel necessary to counter that problem. plus number 2 in my suggestions (on 1st page) would give a hint about it. you speak like you never see new faces in EVE.. most of the name they are new faces, you have to show info and check corp/alliance anyway.. (if they are not already on the contact list)

3. when you buy a character from the bazaar, the person behind those actions isn't there anymore.. it's a new person, that might have some new goals for that toon. and may be that person doesn't want to be related to the bad name the toon is stuck to. i don't see how this point is relevant, may be you could give more info. oh and all this info would still be available in a alias tab anyway.. which kinda touch your point number 1.

4. CCP would have to check for this issue.. as this is technical, i cannot answer this. don't think you could anyway. i could try tho, if everything is based on API.. then just update the APIs to show the name change.. or ask for a new API to be made. any link pointing to the old character could just redirect to the new one. APIs included.

5. that's an assumption that you have no proof of, and is the same basic point to number 4. which is technical.. but not complicated. APIs are flexible .. they are made to be so.

6. has nothing to do with the suggestion here.. it's already a problem in the game.

7. a lot of people agree with this too. unless a poll is made, no one can be sure of the % of people agreeing or not.

and in your last paragraph you assume a lot. without providing any proof. overall, your points are weak, and already covered by existing game mechanics, and new mechanics that could be easily implemented in game.

thanks for your time.


EDIT: so point 4 and point 5 .. which are really the same point, are the main issue here.. would be nice to have someone that has some knowledge in API functionality.. DEV or GM i guess.. but if they willfully ignore these threads, ain't going to help.