Ships & Modules

Idiota

Right now the T1 Minnie Frigates are quite lackluster.

As a pilot who has flown the Slasher/Firetail exclusively for a year now, I'm of the opinion that the biggest problem is damage projection. Falloff sounds great and all, but quiet often when matched up against many other Frigs you just don't have the tank to be operating in deep fall off (edge of scram if autocannon fit).

I'm not saying that the Minnie T1 Frigs are horrible, more just I think the damage projection is quiet lackluster. The Slasher DPS is laughable, Rifter slightly more and now slightly better damage projection in Frig vs Frig battles....

Overall, I would say meh.... it's was worth a look, but I'm certainly not going to fly to Jita to purchase some.

I probably am a little biased though, considering I have recently decided to cross-train into Amarr ships. Currently, the Minmatar ship line-up overall is just lackluster in comparison to the other races IMO.

Oh yes the Slasher is fine, I never said it wasn't. But kiting Slasher or Rifter makes no sense due to damage projection and the Rifter in and of itself is also in a poor state. I haven't stated anything else in this thread.

Well tbh most of the arguments above about speed etc are a waste of time.

in a kiter config the rifter will have enough speed to get into a 'workable' engagement range of the 'attack' frigs as it can project autocannon damage out past 20km range.

And everyone who's flown frigs for any length of time knows fine well you can scram fit a fast attack frig and chase down a kite setup frig. DUH! that is your rock to their scissors!

You really are an argumentative sort aren't you

All this forum warrioring (with a forum alt) mean jack squat when you use these ships in game. Against said condor or atron? Easy I don't engage or catch them on a warp in.

BLAH BLAH BLAH This ship can kill that ship! With whatever hypothetical fits you want to sway the argument with is just that HYPOTHETICAL!

Simple fact of the matter OP is that rifters always have been viable solo pvp frigs and the recent changes make them even more so.

Don't listen to all the naysayers. If you want to fly the rifter get to it and have fun. However if you want the rifter to be the arguably OP 'king of frigs' from before then I'm afraid you will be disappointed.

Have fun. Fly dangerous, because safe is boring!

Actually I can't be bothered to forum scrap with an EFT warrior alt any more.

Have fun o7

Brilliant! thank you everyone for you input.
Great discussion from you all.

As it's creating differing opinions, I think I can safely conclude that the Rifter is still viable as not everyone has said "go fly X instead" but isn't so OP that it has become the king of the small boat. which, for me at least, is kinda where we want to be with a good balance on frigate combat. I shall aim to exchange many for gf's in the future.

once again thanks all.
Fly safe.
Fox.

Attack frigates are flawed because kiting frigs are just so good right now, so you're forced into scram range fights which means you can only deal with ships that are slower or roughly equal speed/agility (to catch them) or have bad pilots (which in a discussion about balance shouldn't be a factor). So which ships are slower than an Attack frig? Other attack frigs, AFs and cruiser +. When you look at other attack frigs then good luck taking on a Punisher or Merlin and against an AF (again, not assuming an idiot target) it won't work either. Cruisers will nuke/neut you.


The issue is that people who are good at pvp keep running into clowns with terrible SP, understanding, fits and experience and then, of course, win. And when that happens often enough they base their assumptions on their experience and yes, a well flown Rifter against an idiot/inexperienced Atron pilot the Rifter will win. But that doesn't mean the Rifter is awesome, it just means ppl choose to fight moron Atrons.


If you remove player quality from the equation an attack frig doesn't really do too well in the first place and the Rifter in particular was below par and still is below par.

Stupid is.

To bad he spews his ignorance all over an otherwise good thread and turns it into a useless pile of garbage.

I think the atron/condor/slasher are attack frigs. I think the rifter/incursus/punisher, etc are combat frigs? Maybe I am getting my definitions messed up. Anyway...

I dont know if you fly in FW or not, since you are on an alt, but you have to take battlespace into account too. In FW plexes you can often control the range where the fight starts. Either because you are already inside on the warp in, or you are about to warp in and can see what is inside on the plex. A scram is far more powerful in FW for this reason. You can catch and kill kiting frigates far more often because of the gate mechanic. Yes the kiters can always choose to run or not warp in, but believe it or not, some people actually take fights they arent supposed to win. Otherwise, what is the point?

The rifter is a fine frigate with a utility high that you can fit for dps or cap warfare. Its fast enough and has enough EHP. It will do ok DPS with barrage out to a reasonable distance against blaster/ac ships and it can can swap to phased plasma and get under the guns of everything else. It is extremely versatile. Just because it will have trouble with a LML Condor doesnt mean anything, because that ship is hyper-lame and all turret ships have trouble with it.

And I love the kiting Atron and fly it all of the time. Its DPS outside of scram range is anemic though, and it cant reliably kill anything in a reasonable amount of time. (I cant tell you how many times I have had to call for dps help to finish off my opponent in a fight that I wanted to be solo, but I shot the guy for 5 mins and couldnt break his tank). The kiting atron also doesnt have an active tank usually. It works fine against buffer ships that cant hit it, but the new AC rifter will be able to. Even though a rifter might only do 50 dps out that far, the rifter will have a SAR and the Atron wont, so it will eventually run the Atron off.

Rifter is fine. Its versatility is its strength. You will win some you will lose some, but it works just as well as the others.