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Missile attack battlecruiser
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Claud Tiberius
#41 - 2014-03-28 23:58:45 UTC
I think the Drake is a perfectly fine missile BC. Ofc, it isn't an Attack BC i.e.: A ship designed to destroy battle ships.

However imo, that's why all of the stealth bombers use missiles. Stealth bombers bridge that gap between BC and BS (and beyond), just not in a way you expect. It is a powerful weapon system.

So with that in mind, I don't see the need for a missile ABC.

Once upon a time the Golem had a Raven hull and it looked good. Then it transformed into a plataduck. The end.
Anhenka
The New Federation
Sigma Grindset
#42 - 2014-03-29 00:28:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Anhenka
Arthur Aihaken wrote:

Yeah, with a 20-second flight time... A missile-based Naga wouldn't be any different than the other Attack Battlecruisers. You obviously have no concept of how missiles work if you think even a 25% explosion velocity bonus gives it damage application against smaller targets.


I am perfectly aware that an explosion velocity bonus is a damage application bonus toward moving targets. But by some odd correlation, those also tend to be smaller ships. Imagine that.

I'm fine with a missile Naga if it gets the same DPS with cruise missiles as a sniper fit, or even say 25% more to be nice and compensate a slight bit for missile time.

Let's see, that's 440 dps with a Spike Naga. So about 550 DPS on a missile Naga sounds about right. Especially since a cruise missile naga is not immediately in deep **** once someone gets within a 425 Naga's awful tracking, and can deal effective dps to cruiser hulls with precision ammo. That's 550 dps of fairly well applied dps at super close or super long range, with choice of damage types, can ignore tracking, and switch to precision in order to hit small targets even more effectively.

But wait.... That's less than half of your proposed ships DPS? So either Railgun naga is horrifyingly bad, or your proposal is horrifyingly OP.

And consider about 80% of your posting on this forum seem to be nonstop whining about how bad missiles are, and how bad CCP is for not buffing missiles, I'm kind of leaning towards the later option.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#43 - 2014-03-29 01:08:23 UTC
Anhenka wrote:
I am perfectly aware that an explosion velocity bonus is a damage application bonus toward moving targets. But by some odd correlation, those also tend to be smaller ships. Imagine that.

I imagine that you're completely underestimating the damage application of cruise missiles. On paper it may look great; in reality, a frigate could easily scram and kill a missile Naga.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#44 - 2014-03-29 01:09:09 UTC
Claud Tiberius wrote:
I think the Drake is a perfectly fine missile BC. Ofc, it isn't an Attack BC i.e.: A ship designed to destroy battle ships.

However imo, that's why all of the stealth bombers use missiles. Stealth bombers bridge that gap between BC and BS (and beyond), just not in a way you expect. It is a powerful weapon system.

So with that in mind, I don't see the need for a missile ABC.

1. Drakes suck. Both versions.
2. Bombers use torpedoes. Damage application with torpedoes sucks.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Anhenka
The New Federation
Sigma Grindset
#45 - 2014-03-29 01:58:00 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Anhenka wrote:
I am perfectly aware that an explosion velocity bonus is a damage application bonus toward moving targets. But by some odd correlation, those also tend to be smaller ships. Imagine that.

I imagine that you're completely underestimating the damage application of cruise missiles. On paper it may look great; in reality, a frigate could easily scram and kill a missile Naga.


A t1 frigate can scram and kill every single ABC except a Talos with webs+blasters+drones. And it gets lower gun bonuses than the rest of the ABC's to compensate. Being able to be killed by a frigate is hardly a balancing point for ABC's.

But a cruise missile ABC would deal far better damage to say fleet AHAC's at close range than any of the other long range ABC's can.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#46 - 2014-03-29 02:26:41 UTC
Anhenka wrote:
But a cruise missile ABC would deal far better damage to say fleet AHAC's at close range than any of the other long range ABC's can.

No, even against cruisers (and especially AHACs) the damage is minimal. Unless you can scram and dual-web them, even with target painters and rigors you'll be doing about a fraction of your paper dps against an afterburner or microwarpdrive fit cruiser or HAC.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Kenrailae
Scrapyard Artificer's
Just Lizard
#47 - 2014-03-29 07:54:35 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
No, even against cruisers (and especially AHACs) the damage is minimal. Unless you can scram and dual-web them, even with target painters and rigors you'll be doing about a fraction of your paper dps against an afterburner or microwarpdrive fit cruiser or HAC.


Doesn't this hold true for all the other ABC's though? Last I checked, A talos can't really hit a HAC that is in tight and moving at even half speed.... A talos 'slowboating' is capable of moving faster than it's guns can track on it's own. A rail Naga or Oracle can hit them well enough from range, but up close, neither of them can really hit either, IIRC.


I think the point here is that the cruise naga will still DO damage up close, and also from WAY far away, where the others can't.

Could be wrong. It is very late and I'm lack of sleep posting....

The Law is a point of View

The NPE IS a big deal
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#48 - 2014-03-29 08:50:47 UTC
Kenrailae wrote:
Doesn't this hold true for all the other ABC's though? Last I checked, A talos can't really hit a HAC that is in tight and moving at even half speed.... A talos 'slowboating' is capable of moving faster than it's guns can track on it's own. A rail Naga or Oracle can hit them well enough from range, but up close, neither of them can really hit either, IIRC.

I think the point here is that the cruise naga will still DO damage up close, and also from WAY far away, where the others can't.

It holds true for all ships with large weapons.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Captain StringfellowHawk
Forsaken Reavers
Ace's N Eight's
#49 - 2014-03-29 14:33:56 UTC
sprototles Ganzo wrote:
So we have 4 attack BC
2 hybrid : talos and naga
1 projectile: tornado
1 laser: oracle
Well, where is missile attack BC ?

My bonuses:
5% reduction torpedo and cruisers explosion radius
5% increase torpedo and cruisers explosion velocity

p.s. Drone attack BC would be impressive too

Comment and comment again


Drone Attack BC?! I am all Pro Drone boats... but this would not really be that impressive.. Any of the current Drone boats already maximize on DPS. A Navy Vexor can pump as much as an Ishtar or a Domi in Drone DPS. I think this game has enough drone boats.. Especially since every race now appears to be a drone race... This is almost becoming as Bad as Star Trek Online, Just pick your flavor and fire.. Soon weapon types won't matter... just pick your animation.. Except for missiles... missiles blow..
scorchlikeshiswhiskey
Totally Abstract
O X I D E
#50 - 2014-04-03 16:24:48 UTC
A missile Naga should come with a second missile module that will affect different aspects of missiles than the Ballistic Control System, the only missile specific module that we have. This would help to balance missiles with turrets in that turrets have multiple modules to choose from to create a more ideal fit, missiles fit gank, then tank, then fill the remaining lows with BCS and it's getting a little old.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#51 - 2014-04-03 19:23:27 UTC
scorchlikeshiswhiskey wrote:
A missile Naga should come with a second missile module that will affect different aspects of missiles than the Ballistic Control System, the only missile specific module that we have. This would help to balance missiles with turrets in that turrets have multiple modules to choose from to create a more ideal fit, missiles fit gank, then tank, then fill the remaining lows with BCS and it's getting a little old.

Now that drones are getting some passive low-slot omnis and navigation modules, maybe we'll finally see a passive ballistic enhancer for missiles...

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
scorchlikeshiswhiskey
Totally Abstract
O X I D E
#52 - 2014-04-07 21:20:12 UTC
There are no BC's that can fit a decent amount of CCP's vaunted Rapid Heavies. Why is this?
They ran out a new weapon system, told us it was the new best thing, even better than sliced bread, and yet the only ships that can use it are massive and slow moving battleships.
A Tornado can fit BS size projectiles, a Talos can fit BS size hybrids, an Oracle can fit BS lazors, and the Naga shares hybrids with the Talos? What sense does this make?
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