Crime & Punishment

Right so I promised another story so I will deliver.
This time I am running a bit of a small mining op with well... just me and my alts. I am active on all of the accounts and making sure to keep close to my Orca this time.
Worth to note that once more I am in lowsec since well I need some of that tasty ore that I am not able to get in my "safe haven" of hisec. So since I am ready to loose my Covetors I chose them instead of the Hulks so if I loose them its a smaller loss and I can make some new ones. The Orca however is something that I do not wish to loose its quite expensive but I run it as cheep as I can with a ok tank so I should be able to get out. As a good Not-a-carebear I have it aligned towards a safespot I set up in my Rifter before.
Happy as a clam as I am raking in tasty ore and a swarm of drones around me I think "Well this is going well, all alone in the system no one in local this is great." Well you know Murphy's law... when things can go wrong they will go wrong. It starts with my accidentally double clicking in space and getting my Orca out of alignment. About the same time I see some friendly chaps jump into local. "Well crap" is my first thought. Trying to get my Orca to jump to my safe spot before they scan me down.
One Covetor away, two Covetors away and the last Covetor away and Orca almost away when they come down on me. Does not take long for them to lock, web, scramble and do all sorts of nasty things to my beloved DKM Regin.
They begin to shoot and since I got quite a nice tank on the Orca it does not go pop right away. I still take care to get my Covetors to safety during this.
Then my friend the confused pirate opens a conversation with me. (Confused Pirate will be called Confucius from here on.)

Confucius> "500m or we blow up your Orca."
Me> "I do not got 500m and I kinda really need this ore. Can we come to some other arrangement?"
Confucius> "No! Rum, booty and ISKis is all we want."
Me> "How about this, I got some ships that you might want and I will contract them to you."
Confucius> "Wait... you will give me ships?"
Me> "Sure, I got 500m in assets but I don't got it in ISKis right now."
Confucius> "Well.... what kind of ships do you got?"
Me> "One moment...."
Me> [Link to the ships I have made and was planing to sell.]
Confucius> "So we can chose one ship each?"

This is where I began to think that he was not all to old in EvE and maybe English was not his native language.

Me> "Sure you and your friends chose one ship each and I will contract them to you for free."
Confucius Friend> "Sweet I will have a Omen"
Confucius> "Wait... so you will give us ships but not ISKis?"
Me> "Yes I don't got the money to pay you but I do have ships that I would happily trade for my Orca."
Confucius> "Ok... so well... I will take a Omen as well... and well... just give us 6 Omens."
Me> "Ok... there you go contracted all 6 of them to you. May I go now?"
Confucius> "Sure you can go."

I put the contract for 1 day since I assumed they would accept it right away. But they let me go and I jump away to my Not-a-carebear hole where I am safe. I got away with a almost full Orca and my Covetors. Sure I had to part with 6 Omes but thats not to bad and I did not have to give them all of my ships which I was almost ready to do since what I am building now is kinda important.
But then I look at contracts and I see that they have rejected it, so since I am a nice person I contact him and ask him why he have rejected it.

Confucius> "Sorry... I missclicked can you send me it again?"
Here I think for a moment, they did let me go and I did give them the contract. Its not my fault that they screwed it up.
Me> "Sure but I will put a price on them this time, just above material cost so I make a little profit."
Confucius> "Oh ok thats nice, how much each?"
Me> [Sends the price of a Omen and what I am willing to part with one for.]
Confucius> "Cool aright thanks!"

So in the end I made some money out of it after all since the confused pirate did not really know what he was doing. I felt a little bad for him but in the end he and his friends got a good deal on 6 Omens with a chance to get them for free.
I had fun and was laughing for a while.

So to Confucius thank you for your business if you need anything else let me know, preferably not at gunpoint.
Just as a note. When they stopped shooting I was halfway through armor. So they could break my Orca.

I mean as long as pirates honor ransoms so long I will keep paying them. If I know that they will blow up my ship even if I pay it then I won't take that extra loss. But there are still a few "honorable" pirates around and its nice to see.
I will always be willing to pay to not have my ships blow up since its annoying to have to make a new one.

The only reason why I did it was because he rejected my contract, I would have happily handed over those Omen's in return for my Orca's life. But he rejected it and when I asked about it he was happy to pay for the ships.
I will happily sell ships to anyone that needs them and he got a good deal because I am nice at times.

Oh and I do got a story when I got royally screwed. I was new and I was not well versed with EvE it was my first rage in this game and looking back I was stupid as hell. But you will see.

So I had finally gotten into a Retriver, god I was so proud of myself. I was a miner and I was amazing, I was raking in ISK(in my mind that was). I knew that it was dangerous to jetcan mine since I had been told that there was a cleaning patrol known as pirates that came around now and then and cleaned up the system and freed the 'roids from those nasty miners.
But I had just managed to save up to a Covetor, it was almost all my ISKis and I had started a Hauler alt that was in a Iteron.
God I was so proud.
So I decided to try this jetcan mining I had heard so much about and those nasty canflippers would never target me I was still new to the game so they would leave me alone right...
Oh once more I was wrong.
So rolling out in my beloved Covetor I had named "Triforce" (Three stripminers...) I warped to a belt and began to mine along, jettisoning everything so I could come in on my Iteron later and reap the rewards.
So blissfully happy I see another friendly miner there coming out in a Retriver. I did not notice that he went very close to my can since it was just another friendly miner.
So when I put some more ore into the can I decide to split it up into two can's. One for Veldspar and one for Scordite... that was a mistake.
So I see the Retriver warping off and I thought 'Oh well I will mine alone.' I warp out in my Iteron and begin to scoop up everything in my can's. Then suddenly a Trasher appears. Oh this is bad I thought since I was still afraid of can flippers. I had not paid attention to the popup when I opened the can either.

So quickly my iteron is locked and it pops quite rapidly. I am in shock, 'What is this, why is he blowing me up, what have I done towards him?' Well... if you do not pay attention and someone steals your ore, or look on overview and see the change on their ship then blame yourself... or so I say now.

He then proceeds to lock my Covetor and I begin raging in local about someone blowing my ship up and how unfair this is towards miners. I was so angry, when I am in hull he opens a convo asking me what my ship is worth to me. As I said I had nothing since I spent everything buying the Covetor. I beg him not to kill me, then I get angry and tell him to stick his guns where the sun does no shine and so forth. So he blows me up... God I was angry.

So I left eve for about 1 day before I calmed down and thought about it, well I did not pay attention. I should not fly what I can't afford and I should not rage in a bloody game. So thanks to that pesky pirate I learned very quickly that this is just a game and either you make the best of your situation or you just don't play. So I did the best I could.
I did only fly what I could afford, I began to hoard ore and BPO's so I could build my own ships so it would be less of an impact on me if I lost a ship. So now when I meet pirates I usually have quite fun.
Most of them are decent people that are just using another way of making ISKis.
I kill defenseless asteroids, they kill defenseless miners... or if they are nice, ransom me for ISKis instead so I can still make a profit and they will be able to ransom me another day.

So a word to all you raging carebears.
I have been there as well, it sucks to loose everything you have but please don't make an ass of yourself as I did and if you loose something then make the best of it. Heck the fittings I use now to counter pirates I got together after getting suggestions from pirates blowing me up. So don't be a douche and try to be polite even when someone kills you. Who knows maybe that pirate is looking for a indy person to help him build ships, ammo or modules for his corp.
Remember this is a open PvP game, hisec is false security and you can't trust anyone thats not in your corp... and not always then either.

And to you pirates that honor your ransom, I salute you.

love it. absolutely love. You sir, are no longer a carebear. You have risen above your fellow miners and industrialists into a special group we call the 1%ers. A great rank for those who know that eve is not kind to the stupid.

Invest in a Procurer, some shield modules, some warrior IIs, and a drone damage amplifier or two. Set your drones to aggressive.

So far... no change in my daily business. Sure if people wish to hunt me down they will but hey thats EvE for you. Its a risk that I was well aware of when I stared this thread. But I am having to much fun telling about all the stupid mistakes me and others have made.


That is a very good tactic since it will most likely not make me a target but it will be a noticeable loss in my profits. I have done some calculations and at the current rate of "extortion" its more worth to me to fly a Covetor/Hulk or a Retriver/Mackinaw.
But if I do start to become a target that is my plan, I got some Procures ready for just that. But this is not my miner since that would have been foolish this is my "main" and my miners are my alts.


And to those that say I am not carebear on the EVElopiedia it says and I quote "Carebear is an often derogatory term used to describe players who prefer to refrain from PvP combat. Activities that involve playing against the game environment are collectively referred to as "carebearing."

People described as carebears can be mission runners, manufacturers, traders, or any number of non-player vs player centric fields of economic gain. The key perceived difference between 'carebears' and players who simply PvE is their attitude towards PvP encounters."
And that is exactly what I am. I refrain from PvP since I like making things and getting tasty ore. I like many other miners have just accepted the fact that this is a open PvP game and we will loose ships sooner or later, all you can do is try to get away with as much ore as you can before that happens so you can cover your losses.
I dont cry about it when it happens but I take it in good spirit and if I can I try and bribe my way out of it. I would never pay the cost of my ship to a pirate since that would be a loss for me but rather I give them a sum that is more worth then killing me since my modules are usually not worth that much.

Time to use.... math!
Ship: ~120m
Modules: 13m

So the pirate only have a projected income of 13m if they kill me.
A Full Retriver is roughly worth around 5m, the hisec ore that is.
A Orca around 39m depending on the fitting on the Orca.

So that means by killing my Covetor that have no ore in it would give them around 6.5m if we hope that all the goodies drop.
So if I can pay my way out of it with maybe 45m both of us will still make a profit.
A Orca cost around 600m just the ship and the modules is another 40-50m, so the drop from a Orca is maybe 20-25m in modules and maybe 19.5m in ore. So 40-45m in total so a ransom of 75m would still be a better profit for the pirate.

The main issue I have seen so far with some pirates is that they expect you to pay the full price of the hull and modules so for instance using the Covetor 133m then I would rather go boom and get a new ship rather then pay the full ransom since I can make it myself easily. So if the ransom is the entire hull then most miners are less likely to pay.
If they are smart then they have BP's to make all their modules and ships so they can easily replace them and have a few spare in the station.

The Orca is another matter but the same basic idea applies.
As long as the ransom is reasonable I will happily pay it but if its to big then I rather go boom. But thats up to the pirate.
As for a pod ransom if the ransom is higher then the total cost of my clone+implants then please just kill me. But if its a reasonable bribe you want then I might just pay it.

I might sound quite naive and that I will just pay any ransom but I have been blown up quite a few times since I have refused to pay. Its all down to some very basic math, if I will pay you the same as getting a new ship then I rather get a new ship and you will get far less money, sure you will get some padding on your KB but if you need that then you might need to start looking for a new profession. I am not saying this to antagonize pirates or make you upset. But because I have met people that more or less just have mining barges on their KB and sure its a huge ISK kill but honestly would you not make more money taking out a small ransom that you will get?


Oh one last thing.
To the pirate that tried to ransom me out of 500m for my Hulk, I hope that it looks good on your KB and that the 3m loot was worth it, next time consider my offer for 50m instead.

15m for a Retriver or Covetor is more then fair. More then happy to pay that.
Hulk... well if I am stupid to go mine alone in lowsec in a Hulk then 100m is a good price same goes for the Orca.

Well I don't work like that. I look at the cost of the ore + production cost and its usually around market prices. If I ignore this then I am loosing money, a mistake many carebears does. Just because you mine the ore yourself does not mean that you are not loosing money if you build it yourself. Its ore that you could have sold or used to build something to sell.

I think he was new and I offered 50m since 500m is not worth it at all. So be blew me up and got about 3m in modules and ore.

And yes I say that its stupid to mine in a Exhumer in lowsec alone but I still do it at times since at times the risk might be worth it. Does not mean that its not stupid but I am aware of the risks.

Well then I need to change the name of this to Not-a-Carebear :P
But I hope that people are enjoying this thread, wanted to show you the other side of it. May Pirates telling of how they ransomed miners but not many miners telling the story from their side unless they are raging about loosing their ships.

I should mention that...

Average Procurer Cost: 10-15 million fit
Average Retriever Cost: 35-45 million fit
Average Covetor Cost: 35-45 million fit
Average Orca Cost: 750+ million
Average Hulk Cost: 210-245 million fit

I would never accept a 50 million ISK ransom on a hulk. Well, I would, but then I would still kill you anyway. And pod. Because lowballing.

Honor only goes as far as people are willing to check.