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BLOPS balance pass - a proposal.
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Lakotnik
TSOE Po1ice
TSOE Consortium
#21 - 2014-03-14 13:39:20 UTC
Justin Cody wrote:
Black Ops battleships were one of the best additions to the game in a long time when they came out. It was a new meta for small/medium sized gangs to play around with and the ships are fairly flexible for each race.

Initial problems were wicked fuel use, short range and small fuel bay.

Then we had a partial update:

Range increased to 7.5LY at JDC 5 - that is ok
Fuel bay increase so we can bridge more ships.

Problems remaining: T1 tanks and sub t1 hp coupled with mass 50% higher than base ships (for no good reason I might add) and a speed bonus while cloaked that borders on absurdly tiny.

Proposal:

Reduce Black Ops Mass by half (75M or so) because please please oh please I live in a wormhole please. and it would still be heavier than a nestor. Give them more flexible cpu/grid amounts so that there is less of a chance that people know what you will bring. That might even mean slot layout changes for the Redeemer so it can fit a shield tank without being laughed at. Alternatively...make more BLOPS bs hulls.

But mostly reduce the mass and examine each of the BS in terms of the bonuses it uses and not wanting to die. The Widow needs another low slot and the redeemer another mid. *figure it out*

The sin's intertia bonus seems silly for something already so damned heavy and slow. So either pump that up so it warps like a cruiser at level 5 or maybe give it something different like a warp speed increase per-level or a rate of fire bonus for the turrets for MORE DAKKA.

The speed bonus per level should amount to the ship having AB or MWD like speeds while cloaked. Something approaching 700m/sec or so. At that point the inertia bonus would be interesting. At this point however it looks more like a failed experiment at making ducks bark like dogs.


No.

You want a battleship which can bridge other ships the same way a Titan can, but to a cyno that CAN'T be blocked, to be less vulnerable and more agile//fast? Puhleeeze. Get real man.

Wait no. I agree with your proposals if the bridge range is reduced by 50% and their fuel bay is reduced by 50% as well. That would scale things nicely. Otherwise, look at my first word. It's still "no".
Justin Cody
War Firm
#22 - 2014-03-14 13:59:34 UTC
Lakotnik wrote:
Justin Cody wrote:
Black Ops battleships were one of the best additions to the game in a long time when they came out. It was a new meta for small/medium sized gangs to play around with and the ships are fairly flexible for each race.

Initial problems were wicked fuel use, short range and small fuel bay.

Then we had a partial update:

Range increased to 7.5LY at JDC 5 - that is ok
Fuel bay increase so we can bridge more ships.

Problems remaining: T1 tanks and sub t1 hp coupled with mass 50% higher than base ships (for no good reason I might add) and a speed bonus while cloaked that borders on absurdly tiny.

Proposal:

Reduce Black Ops Mass by half (75M or so) because please please oh please I live in a wormhole please. and it would still be heavier than a nestor. Give them more flexible cpu/grid amounts so that there is less of a chance that people know what you will bring. That might even mean slot layout changes for the Redeemer so it can fit a shield tank without being laughed at. Alternatively...make more BLOPS bs hulls.

But mostly reduce the mass and examine each of the BS in terms of the bonuses it uses and not wanting to die. The Widow needs another low slot and the redeemer another mid. *figure it out*

The sin's intertia bonus seems silly for something already so damned heavy and slow. So either pump that up so it warps like a cruiser at level 5 or maybe give it something different like a warp speed increase per-level or a rate of fire bonus for the turrets for MORE DAKKA.

The speed bonus per level should amount to the ship having AB or MWD like speeds while cloaked. Something approaching 700m/sec or so. At that point the inertia bonus would be interesting. At this point however it looks more like a failed experiment at making ducks bark like dogs.


No.

You want a battleship which can bridge other ships the same way a Titan can, but to a cyno that CAN'T be blocked, to be less vulnerable and more agile//fast? Puhleeeze. Get real man.

Wait no. I agree with your proposals if the bridge range is reduced by 50% and their fuel bay is reduced by 50% as well. That would scale things nicely. Otherwise, look at my first word. It's still "no".


It already bridges other ships (covert ops/recon/blockade runner and covert subb'd tech 3's) and as long as it is to a black ops cyno it already can't be blocked. A covert cyno requires cyno 5 so not just any noob can use it. I don't want it to bridge any ship like a titan can...not sure where you got that from. I want them to reduce the impact mass has on fuel use or at least reduce the mass of recon ships a good bit. Recon mass is a problem in other arenas as well but that is a different thread.

All I want is for the Black Ops BS to be brought in-line as a system with the other covert ships and no I don't want it to warp cloaked.
Trii Seo
Goonswarm Federation
#23 - 2014-03-14 14:22:14 UTC
I would say yes to mass changes. Recons are big damn gas guzzlers, unfortunately.

Blops in general need some love - a better Black Ops skill bonus seems in order for Sin and Panther (Redeemer gets Tracking and Widow gets ECM strength - which are both fair, actually.)

Proud pilot of the Imperium

Arek'Jaalan: Heliograph
seth Hendar
I love you miners
#24 - 2014-03-14 14:39:09 UTC
HiddenPorpoise wrote:
seth Hendar wrote:
that would be ok if it was a 100 or 200M BS, but with it's current price, no way

I don't think you've bought your own ships for a long time because of this line.
Less fuel to bridge is the only thing I could get behind.

i don't need to replace BS much often, i mainly fly cruisers / BC and strategic cruiser, those are the one i replace often, but if memory serves, a T1 BS is around 200M isk (hull price) and to me it seems disposable, and given the current status of black ops when under fire, they need to be either disposable, or see a buff in the tank department
seth Hendar
I love you miners
#25 - 2014-03-14 14:40:55 UTC
Asa Shahni wrote:
seth Hendar wrote:
Razor Rocker wrote:
1+

Though to be honest id 1+ almost any positive change to blops bs. Right now they are too expensive for what they do. Too many pilots are afraid to use these because they are so damned squishy and although they do good dps it isnt great.

Be nice to see more BS come through a covert cyno instead of so many cheap bombers and recons.

exactly, the 2 most annoying things i have with mine, is the fuel cost to bridge bigger ship than a SB, and the squishyness

DPS seems ok to me, i see mine (sin) more as a support than a dps boat anyway (but that is personnal)

thing is, if there is a chance for a more or less serious fight(I.E. anything else than a gank), i will just not jump along, because i will be primary and die faster than the stealth bombers, that would be ok if it was a 100 or 200M BS, but with it's current price, no way

also regarding the sin, give him some PG goddamnit


You know that alot of alliance both in low sec and null sec fight with their BLOPS and are not as risk averse as you guys in this thread seem to think.

3 examples :

- snuff box blops fleet

- UCF blops fleet

- NC. blops fleet

I mean i remember a fight we had where we fought another BLOPS BS fleet with our own and killed 3 or so.

BLOPS are fine as it is and (maybe) require a few tweeks but they are good at what they do.

indeed, they drop like 20 of them minimum, with 4 triage archon ready to jump in at any sign of trouble.

not everyone can field that many blops and archon you know.....
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#26 - 2014-03-15 00:42:52 UTC
Justin Cody wrote:
The T2 tank isn't necessary, nor is a covert ops cloak. we should all say no to warpy-cloaky BS's. They do need a mass reduction...it doesn't have a capital jump drive it has a sub-capital jump drive with a range of only 7.5 L.Y. The mass should be reduced at a minimum to that of T1 BS's and at best under that by 25%.

These are gank ships. Meant for hit and run and harassment. They could use a slight raw HP buff in their *primary* tank areas (Widow arguably is an armor tanker due to ECM bonus and shut up about torp shield gank I don't want to hear it). Additionally I don't think fuel use needs to be reduced..recons need their own mass reduced to make them more efficiently bridged to support bombers or other BS's.

Why say no to warpy-cloaking BS's?

We say yes to warpy covert ops carriers with the ship bay space of 250 Titans. At least the warp cloaky battleship has low warp speed, low scan resolution, terrible tracking and huge sig radius.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Justin Cody
War Firm
#27 - 2014-03-15 01:13:15 UTC
get out
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#28 - 2014-03-15 04:19:16 UTC
Justin Cody wrote:
get out

If that was to me you're likely not aware we have these covert cloaky carriers with the hanger space of 250 titans already in game. Not many people are aware of it. Well they are they're just not smart enough to realise it.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Justin Cody
War Firm
#29 - 2014-03-17 13:17:30 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Justin Cody wrote:
get out

If that was to me you're likely not aware we have these covert cloaky carriers with the hanger space of 250 titans already in game. Not many people are aware of it. Well they are they're just not smart enough to realise it.


seriously get out.
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