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Highsec Exploration Help
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Kom Bocket
The Raging Raccoons
#21 - 2014-03-10 17:05:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Kom Bocket
Jonas Staal wrote:
For high-sec Ishtar is overkill, but it works.

I like the arty-cynabal because if you are competing with someone, a well timed volley can decide who "owns" the wreck in the end. And bullets go faster than missiles in case of a 3/10 where you can volley the overseer instantly.

Kind of the problem I'm facing aswel is that sentries are a tad OP, which makes comparing ships to an ishtar kind a sad.


Would you care to share that fitting with me? I've never flown one let alone fitted one on EFT for fun. And about the volley, does it volley frigates or is it more for finishing?

I tried to do a Stratios fit, when you're done laughing at it please give feedback on how to improve it. Keep in mind I've veeeeeryy new to this. Thanks!

[Stratios, Highsec]
Damage Control II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Armor Explosive Hardener II
Medium Armor Repairer II

10MN Afterburner II
Relic Analyzer II
Data Analyzer II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II

Covert Ops Cloaking Device II
Sisters Core Probe Launcher, Core Scanner Probe I
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M

Medium Anti-Kinetic Pump II
Medium Anti-Thermic Pump II
Medium Nanobot Accelerator II
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#22 - 2014-03-10 22:34:30 UTC
The tricky thing with droneboats is that you really want at least 2 drone damage amplifiers and 2 Omni tracking links if using sentries, and if you decide to use heavies, you really need some projected ewar (a web works for sure, painter might be ok), and you'll have to move to the rats.

I would use the huge cargo on a stratios to carry mobile depot, rat specific hardeners, I'd use a more expensive (c-type) armor repairer (ie I'd be trying to make my tank take less slots to fit drone damage amp IIs, and I'd refit in stations and space - removing the analyzers and fitting omnis for combat. 40% more dps from drones will mean that people get less time to find your complex and compete with you for it.

also don't scan from the gate with a stratios, drop the probes and cloak or move to a planet or the next gate whilst you scan, but don't sit on the gate.
Jonas Staal
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#23 - 2014-03-11 08:58:53 UTC
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:
Kom Bocket wrote:
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:
Kom Bocket wrote:
Hmm. So an Ishtar with Sentries + CovOps alt would be better than a one man Stratios but the Stratios would be a bit more "chill" since it's only one character?

-Edit - fixed obvious spelling error.


From the discussions I've read so far the stratios is better for general purpose explo and is good for up to 5/10 combat sites. The ishtar needs you carrying a depot and refitting from travel fit (cloak + mwd + stabs) to all out combat once on site but can take 6/10 sites maybe even 7/10 (happy to be corrected here before I try that :D )


Which is the highest site number I can find in highsec? 7/10? I read somewhere that T3s can not enter highsec sites so I guess that those are out of the question. Why can't a Stratios do sites above 5/10? Not strong enough tank or lacking dps?


There are gate entry limits on the DEC sites but they vary depending on the level which is why I still use my algos for the 3/10's (though a vexor would be better/faster probably I still like my algos too much) I think you only get up to 4/10 in hisec which are doable in cruisers and relatively straightforward in a BC you can tale up to a BC into a 4/10 but not checked if T3's can enter so it is entirey possible they can't as such a site would be trivial to them.


DED3: Anything till HAC (no T3)
DED4: Anything till command ship (no T3)

lowsec you'll probably want sentry platform / T3 (non sentry HAC seem to be missing utility high for cloak / prober, but this can be worked around with mobile fitting thingy)

If you're new you're probably far better off in high sec. Comparing to my corpies in Angel / guristas high sec, non angel/guristas space lowsec seems to be roughly the same in profit.
I find it more fun, but taking into account lost time due to camps/pirates and lost ships, I think high-sec is the better money-maker.
Selaria Unbertable
Bellator in Capsulam
#24 - 2014-03-11 14:57:38 UTC
This is what I've been using in high sec recently:

[Ishtar, Exploration - Guristas/Serpentis]
Medium Armor Repairer II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II

100MN Afterburner II
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II, Optimal Range Script
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II, Optimal Range Script
Cap Recharger II

Salvager I
Small Remote Armor Repairer II
Small Remote Armor Repairer II
Sisters Core Probe Launcher, Sisters Core Scanner Probe

Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump II
Medium Anti-Thermic Pump II

Garde II x5
Warden II x5
Federation Navy Ogre x5

About 270M isk (around 180M for the hull and 80M for the T2 rigs and the probe launcher). This is the best Guristas/Serpentis setup I have come up with so far. Which doesn't mean there are better ones. It just works fine for my playing style.
Switch the AB to a 10MN mwd in Serpentis space, the AB is only useful in Guristas space because an mdw does not work in the 3/10 site. You can also switch a DDA for an EANM for more tank, if you need it, and the salvager for a prototype cloak to go into low sec for escalations.
The faction ogres are there because I haven't trained up heavy drones 5, you can switch them to medium/small ones, but combined with tracking speed scripts, they chew through frigates fast enough.
Apocalypse Solar
State War Academy
Caldari State
#25 - 2014-03-11 15:49:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Apocalypse Solar
All the high sec exploration combat sites can be done using an assault frigate, just pick the assault frigate with native resists for the NPC space you are targeting (Hawk works great in Caldari space and can run a nice tank).

This applies to Hideouts, Lookouts, Vigils, Watches and DEDs 1,2, 3 and 4.

The advantage of running an assault frigate is you can get in ALL the combat sites and never have to ship down.

Battlecruisers and HACs are just overkill for high sec exploration IMO.

As a side note .. Guristas Lookout -> Trap? Expedition for Guristas space is only worth doing for the commander loot along the route ... The final overseer (Dread Pith Terminator) drop table appears to be bugged and is usually completely empty.
Salvos Rhoska
#26 - 2014-03-11 17:02:58 UTC
Apocalypse Solar wrote:
All the high sec exploration combat sites can be done using an assault frigate, just pick the assault frigate with native resists for the NPC space you are targeting (Hawk works great in Caldari space and can run a nice tank).

This applies to Hideouts, Lookouts, Vigils, Watches and DEDs 1,2, 3 and 4.

The advantage of running an assault frigate is you can get in ALL the combat sites and never have to ship down.

Battlecruisers and HACs are just overkill for high sec exploration IMO.


How are you handling the Stasis Towers in Angel Vigil?
How are you managing the Angel DED4 rush to the Excavator?

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Apocalypse Solar
State War Academy
Caldari State
#27 - 2014-03-11 17:18:00 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:

How are you handling the Stasis Towers in Angel Vigil?
How are you managing the Angel DED4 rush to the Excavator?


As I am in Caldari FW I seldom venture to Minmatar High Sec space to do exploration, but I can say this:

I am not familiar with the distance to these towers in the Angel Vigil, but they are very easy to clear in the Guristas equivalent with a long range / light missile setup on the Hawk, or a rail setup on the harpy, or drones if you are in a drone ship.

Regarding the DED 4 comment, I am not familiar with the Angel DED 4, but if its anything like the Caldari DED 4 (Guristas Scout Outpost) the second room is far easier to tank than the first, I normally ignore all the NPCs and just shoot the loot telescope structure.

I guess it all boils down to the fact that if you have the correct hardener setup / native resists on your ship none of these high sec exploration combat sites should be presenting much of a challenge. Also some sites/complexes are more suited to a long range setup so be prepared to refit accordingly.
Salvos Rhoska
#28 - 2014-03-11 19:28:32 UTC
Apocalypse Solar wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:

How are you handling the Stasis Towers in Angel Vigil?
How are you managing the Angel DED4 rush to the Excavator?


As I am in Caldari FW I seldom venture to Minmatar High Sec space to do exploration, but I can say this:

I am not familiar with the distance to these towers in the Angel Vigil, but they are very easy to clear in the Guristas equivalent with a long range / light missile setup on the Hawk, or a rail setup on the harpy, or drones if you are in a drone ship.

Regarding the DED 4 comment, I am not familiar with the Angel DED 4, but if its anything like the Caldari DED 4 (Guristas Scout Outpost) the second room is far easier to tank than the first, I normally ignore all the NPCs and just shoot the loot telescope structure.

I guess it all boils down to the fact that if you have the correct hardener setup / native resists on your ship none of these high sec exploration combat sites should be presenting much of a challenge. Also some sites/complexes are more suited to a long range setup so be prepared to refit accordingly.


Ok, fair enough.

Range is about 40km to 2x stasis towers in Angel Vigil, but the additional problem, they spawn an additional wave.
In Angel DED4 the loot is from a heavily armored excavator ship deep in two swarms of ships with overlapping fields of fire.
In Angel Watch, jump into first room subjects to an immediate intense attack that is tough to tank even in a Cynabal.

There are infact several sites which pose a real problem for an AF, so your generalisation that all sites are duable, is dubious, as evidenced by your second post.

Though I appreciate your original post, Id thank you not to make sweeping generalisations unless you actually have run ALL sites in an AF, which you clearly have not. It may make your argument look strong to do so, but its not really informed, and thenfacade sort of shatters once someone who has infactnrun them, starts poking holes in it.

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Apocalypse Solar
State War Academy
Caldari State
#29 - 2014-03-11 22:01:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Apocalypse Solar
I said they are doable in an Assault Frigate .. not that it is going to be easy for EVERYONE.

I am a 2005 player and have been doing exploration since 2008, running these sites in an Assault Frigate is easy for me .. people who have less skill points (or a 2 month old character such as yourself) may find it a lot harder.

Seriously it is not hard with correctly set up resists, using low signature tanking with an afterburner and a medium shield booster (Hawk has bonuses to shield boost amount).

Go to EVElopedia and study the triggers for the site you are running if you cant handle the incoming damage from a full room.

Learn to use range and speed to mitigate incoming damage. Kill ship types (Destroyer/Frigate and some Light Missile Cruiser NPCs) which hit you hardest, once they are dead you should be taking very little damage.

Some rooms don't need to be cleared to progress and are blitzable.

Of course if you are racing people for the can / wreck / expedition trigger in a highly populated system, you are going to want to try and clear as quickly as possible, then a bigger ship is always better, but I tend to stay away from the highly populated areas for this reason.
Salvos Rhoska
#30 - 2014-03-11 22:15:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Have you ever run an Angel Vigil and/or Angel DED4 in an AF?

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Apocalypse Solar
State War Academy
Caldari State
#31 - 2014-03-11 22:17:42 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Have you ever run an Angel Vigil and/or Angel DED4 in an AF?


Are you even skilled enough to fly an Assault Frigate?
Selaria Unbertable
Bellator in Capsulam
#32 - 2014-03-11 22:18:22 UTC
I have done the 4/10 in Serpentis space in an AF, and yes, it is possible, and not that difficult. But having done 4/10 in all other empire regions, I can tell you, that an AF will have a hard time with some of them. While I agree that it's possible to do exploration in an AF, I would go for a HAC in the long run. It's much less of a pita to have a solid tank AND solid dps, and the latter is imho what counts if you have to compete with others.
Salvos Rhoska
#33 - 2014-03-11 22:33:41 UTC
Apocalypse Solar wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Have you ever run an Angel Vigil and/or Angel DED4 in an AF?


Are you even skilled enough to fly an Assault Frigate?


You did not answer the question.

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Apocalypse Solar
State War Academy
Caldari State
#34 - 2014-03-11 22:37:44 UTC
Yes, I probably have at some point, but I tend to stick to Caldari / Amarr space when it comes to High Sec exploration while in Caldari militia.
Salvos Rhoska
#35 - 2014-03-11 22:40:27 UTC
Apocalypse Solar wrote:
Yes, I probably have


So you can't say for certain that you have.
I think you probably have not.
Fair enough.

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#36 - 2014-03-11 22:47:49 UTC
Apocalypse Solar wrote:
I said they are doable in an Assault Frigate .. not that it is going to be easy for EVERYONE.

I am a 2005 player and have been doing exploration since 2008, running these sites in an Assault Frigate is easy for me .. people who have less skill points (or a 2 month old character such as yourself) may find it a lot harder.

Seriously it is not hard with correctly set up resists, using low signature tanking with an afterburner and a medium shield booster (Hawk has bonuses to shield boost amount).



The problem has never been running the sites, the problem is and always has been taking too long which raises the chances someone else will find the site and compete with you for the loot.
Apocalypse Solar
State War Academy
Caldari State
#37 - 2014-03-11 22:51:33 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Apocalypse Solar wrote:
Yes, I probably have


So you can't say for certain that you have.
I think you probably have not.
Fair enough.


You can think what you like, it doesn't matter either way.
Salvos Rhoska
#38 - 2014-03-11 22:58:31 UTC
Apocalypse Solar wrote:
You can think what you like, it doesn't matter either way.

It rather does matter as to whether what you claim is true or not, and from that, whether your claims are informed or not.

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Apocalypse Solar
State War Academy
Caldari State
#39 - 2014-03-11 23:03:21 UTC
Tauranon wrote:

The problem has never been running the sites, the problem is and always has been taking too long which raises the chances someone else will find the site and compete with you for the loot.


I agree, competition is a problem especially in Caldari space, but for me this does not really matter these days as even the deadspace loot is worth a fraction of what it used to be.

Looted Pithum C-Type Medium Shield Booster today, only to price check and find it has fallen below 100m (used to be able to sell this mod for around 600m before the new probing system arrived on the scene).

I aim for the expeditions from the smaller unrated sites these days, as there seems to be far less competition when it comes to running them, and some of the random commander loot drops can be quite profitable.
Kom Bocket
The Raging Raccoons
#40 - 2014-03-12 04:27:44 UTC
Thanks for all the replies guys! Taking notes from all of this. I just have a question, how much dps can I expect out of these sites?
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