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What ever happened to the Star Trek Generation? The future.
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MutnantRebel
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#41 - 2014-03-10 16:39:46 UTC
One could say the US has a dictatorship. It's an elected one, but a dictatorship it certainly is.

One world governance is in it's middle stages as we type this. Russia, China, India... They ALL have been wanting one world currency and a re-balancing of world power. Currently it seems the US is the offensive military wing of the UN, but then we've bankers as well that love to fund, and profit, from wars. I think two groups are vying for world power and that is the UN and the East. West vs East pretty much.

Government needs to be in place, but it's only worth having when it is directly affected by and beholden to The People. Currently even the US doesn't have this.

Trailer Trash and proud of it!
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#42 - 2014-03-10 16:54:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Krixtal Icefluxor
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:


2.) Dictatorships are thinning out as modern education spreads. Many countries are now immune to falling for such political games. They all have democratic leaderships now and will only slip downhill in a steamy cloud of self-absorbed complacency. These people can no longer be tricked into believing that shít is gold.



Tell that to Putin, Assad, China, N. Korea, and any other leader of a Middle Eastern or African country.


Putin isn't a dictator, because his country is one of the ones immune to dictatorship. His people even now are against his leadership and it wont be long before his regime crumbles.

Most middle eastern and African countries aren't on that list of well-educated peoples who have tasted of freedom and luxury. Bits of China have seen it but a lot more doesn't even know what a cell phone is.


Diversion yet again from you. You clearly stated they are "thinning out", when they clearly are not.

And Putin not a dictator ? He's just sending in troops to countries that are not Russia and seizing for ownership and to protect "threatened Russian citizens in these areas". Just exactly like our Dear Mr. H. did 80 years ago. Exactly like. No difference at all. Nobody voted for a thing. And don't get me started on his "alternative lifestyle" policies.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Baneken
Arctic Light Inc.
Arctic Light
#43 - 2014-03-10 17:55:07 UTC
It's quite simple really.

Selling weapons and waging useless wars make for better profit then interplanetary conquests. P
Justin Cody
War Firm
#44 - 2014-03-10 19:23:45 UTC
As far as goals go we simply need to set ones that are both very long term (say Mars) and also medium...(The Moon) and short term... organizing our satellite constellations better. The moon is only a few days distant by traditional chemical rockets and ion engines in space could make things much more efficient (no need to carry an oxidizer for example).

Starting a colony on the moon would be a good outpost for a few reasons...you could have a dark side observatory and a light side commerce/industrial zone for making rocket fuel for use in ion engines. Power is easy on the light-side. Solar panels could provide nearly everything in terms of power and eventually other sources (fusion) would be developed here on earth and exported. As an example...ITER will be starting up in a few years and could lead to commercial fusion power soon after.

It is important to set goals in both terms of shooting for the stars (figuratively) and accepting that even falling short still means you are flying high.
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#45 - 2014-03-10 19:38:09 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
And Putin not a dictator ? He's just sending in troops to countries that are not Russia and seizing for ownership and to protect "threatened Russian citizens in these areas". Just exactly like our Dear Mr. H. did 80 years ago. Exactly like. No difference at all. Nobody voted for a thing. And don't get me started on his "alternative lifestyle" policies.
People are glad to stay blind. What happens outside of their country is easy for their government to hide from them because they don't want to know aout it. It's not a dictatorship because the leader is highly limited in what he can make his people do. That's not to say he can't find bad things that they will allow, just that there are many worse things a dictator could and would be doing that he can't.

North Korea is a great example of a dictatorship. There you have a large group of people with terrible education and healthcare, being raised to believe all sorts of propaganda that isn't even close to the truth. The ruling family there can whip their people into a frenzy to do whatever they want, simply by telling them that it'll help win the fake wars their people believe their country is waging around the world.

We don't have anything like that in Canada or the USA, most European countries, Russia, or Australia, and we never will again.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#46 - 2014-03-10 19:52:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Krixtal Icefluxor
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:


Putin isn't a dictator, because his country is one of the ones immune to dictatorship. His people even now are agains this leadership and it wont be long before his regime crumbles.


You're truly astonishing. Have you forgotten Stalin so quickly ????

Also, this is what every pundit said about Fidel Castro.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#47 - 2014-03-10 20:00:06 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
You're truly astonishing. Have you forgotten Stalin so quickly ????

Also, this is what every pundit said about Fidel Castro.

Terrible examples. When Stalin came into power, his country was poor and uneducated. And whoever said that about Fidel Castro was probably about as reliable a source of info as a far-right-wing news agency in the USA.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Slade Trillgon
Brutor Force Federated
#48 - 2014-03-10 22:30:53 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:


There is a frightening increase in the number of people the past decade who absolutely have no belief at all in science. Religious and sectarian wars are far more fun and exciting.


I do not think their numbers are increasing drastically. The US actually seems, in my opinion, to becoming more religiously passive and/or secular. IT just so happens the tool you mentioned in your first sentence, the internet, has given the fundamentalists, of all religions, a louder voice. Most people, even the theists I know, can not really stand fundamentalists. They are losing their grasp on the GoP just as the GoP is realizing they have lost their grasp of their fiscally conservative principles to cow tow to the 15% of the US population known as the Christian Fundamentalists. We see where that has gotten their party.


Again this is all just my opinion.
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#49 - 2014-03-10 22:36:51 UTC
Slade you are correct. Saying that the numbers of religious fanatics are going up in the USA is like saying the numbers of gay people are going up in California. It's like saying people are more likely to be born rétarded if they are born in the northwestern USA. The difference is not in how many there are but in how many come out in public. Fact is, numbers of Christians in the USA are going down, while numbers of non-religious in the USA are going up. The same trend is happening pretty much across all of Europe and North America, the majority of southeast Asia, Australia, Russia, The Ukraine, other Slavic countries, and even some parts of Africa.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#50 - 2014-03-10 22:41:42 UTC
Slade Trillgon wrote:
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:


There is a frightening increase in the number of people the past decade who absolutely have no belief at all in science. Religious and sectarian wars are far more fun and exciting.


I do not think their numbers are increasing drastically. The US actually seems, in my opinion, to becoming more religiously passive and/or secular. IT just so happens the tool you mentioned in your first sentence, the internet, has given the fundamentalists, of all religions, a louder voice. Most people, even the theists I know, can not really stand fundamentalists. They are losing their grasp on the GoP just as the GoP is realizing they have lost their grasp of their fiscally conservative principles to cow tow to the 15% of the US population known as the Christian Fundamentalists. We see where that has gotten their party.


Again this is all just my opinion.


I agree. The problem is the billionaires (Koch Bros) throwing the vast amounts of money at those nutcases for campaigns, et al.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Slade Trillgon
Brutor Force Federated
#51 - 2014-03-10 22:49:27 UTC
MutnantRebel wrote:
Pushing wars over religion/resources/money/oil is not just profitable, it's a way to control people as well.



Adam Smith said, and I paraphrase, 'The best way to get the people to accept the burdens of a new tax is to do it in response to a new threat.'

One of the biggest drains on the US economy, and the fundamentalist's favorite, is the War on Drugs.
Slade Trillgon
Brutor Force Federated
#52 - 2014-03-10 22:53:05 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:


I agree. The problem is the billionaires (Koch Bros) throwing the vast amounts of money at those nutcases for campaigns, et al.


Those people will slowly lose out to their purely fiscally conservative counterparts, which I believe to be @ 20%+ of most population centers. Fundamentalists are in large numbers in Colorado and have failed to keep marijuana illegal. That is one of my primary indicators of the lack of strength in the fundamentalist groups. They are like neo-nassis. They do not and will never, in this day and age, find a singular cohesive voice that brings all the differing factions together.
Bronden Neopatus
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#53 - 2014-03-11 07:41:53 UTC
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:


2.) Dictatorships are thinning out as modern education spreads. Many countries are now immune to falling for such political games. They all have democratic leaderships now and will only slip downhill in a steamy cloud of self-absorbed complacency. These people can no longer be tricked into believing that shít is gold.



Tell that to Putin, Assad, China, N. Korea, and any other leader of a Middle Eastern or African country.


Putin isn't a dictator, because his country is one of the ones immune to dictatorship. His people even now are against his leadership and it wont be long before his regime crumbles.

Most middle eastern and African countries aren't on that list of well-educated peoples who have tasted of freedom and luxury. Bits of China have seen it but a lot more doesn't even know what a cell phone is.


Number of Moscow Grand Dukes toppled by the Russian People: zero.
Number of Tsars toppled by the Russian People: zero.
Number of Soviet Dictators toppled by the Russian People: zero.
Number of Post-Soviet Authoritarians toppled by the Russian People: zero.
Number of Corrupt Authoritarian Camarilla #n toppled by Corrupt Authoritarian Camarilla #n+1: countless.

Russia is truly inspirational for freedom fighters around the world vºv.

She strutted into my office wearing a dress that clung to her like Saran Wrap to a sloppily butchered pork knuckle, bone and sinew jutting and lurching asymmetrically beneath its folds, the tightness exaggerating the granularity of the suet and causing what little palatable meat there was to sweat, its transparency the thief of imagination.
MutnantRebel
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#54 - 2014-03-11 08:26:57 UTC
Don't forget, peeps.... Stalin staved tens of millions of Ukrainians to death through government induced famine.

Trailer Trash and proud of it!
Marcus Gord
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#55 - 2014-03-11 09:25:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Marcus Gord
To be on the topic of the Trek universe, are we forgetting that they had the collapse of the UN, WW3 with nuclear exchange, a eugenics war, and at least a few decades of hell on earth because of it?

All before the first warp flight of the Phoenix which took the curiosity of the Vulcans.

It looks all nice on the screen, but the history in universe is nasty.

In a few moments you will have an experience that will seem completely real. It will be the result of your subconscious fears transformed to your conscious awareness.

http://i.imgur.com/LM2NKUf.png
MutnantRebel
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#56 - 2014-03-11 10:32:11 UTC
never knew Star Trek Backstory.....

Trailer Trash and proud of it!
Slade Trillgon
Brutor Force Federated
#57 - 2014-03-11 10:59:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Slade Trillgon
Bronden Neopatus wrote:
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:


2.) Dictatorships are thinning out as modern education spreads. Many countries are now immune to falling for such political games. They all have democratic leaderships now and will only slip downhill in a steamy cloud of self-absorbed complacency. These people can no longer be tricked into believing that shít is gold.



Tell that to Putin, Assad, China, N. Korea, and any other leader of a Middle Eastern or African country.


Putin isn't a dictator, because his country is one of the ones immune to dictatorship. His people even now are against his leadership and it wont be long before his regime crumbles.

Most middle eastern and African countries aren't on that list of well-educated peoples who have tasted of freedom and luxury. Bits of China have seen it but a lot more doesn't even know what a cell phone is.


Number of Moscow Grand Dukes toppled by the Russian People: zero.
Number of Tsars toppled by the Russian People: zero.
Number of Soviet Dictators toppled by the Russian People: zero.
Number of Post-Soviet Authoritarians toppled by the Russian People: zero.
Number of Corrupt Authoritarian Camarilla #n toppled by Corrupt Authoritarian Camarilla #n+1: countless.

Russia is truly inspirational for freedom fighters around the world vºv.


A true dictatorship, or at least a successful one, would not have 8 leaders in less than 100 years, just saying. So apparently, some people in the Russian states have the power to overturn the leadership....more like 'they' are the ones that are really in power Roll What better way to rule your people but behind the guise of 'charismatic' puppets.
Adunh Slavy
#58 - 2014-03-11 11:21:49 UTC
Bronden Neopatus wrote:

What makes you think that people would be any better than they are in existing societies without a government?

Look at EVE for a virtual world as you ask it.

Look at the tribes of Papua New Guinea for the real world as you ask it.


What would make me think that? History.

Examine the instances of places with more government control. Are they more or less prosporous than places with less government control? Take a look at human advancements. Is there more or less inovation where government is involved?

You want to compare nearly stone age tribal cultures with post renessance cultures? See that apple? Does it look like an orange? Nope, I don't think so.

I'll await your Somalia canard and then point out Somalia is the result of a failed scocialist state and is in no way the result of an evolution towards a volintary sscociety.

You want to use Eve as a comparision? Eve where no one starves, no one can die? Please get a grip. Eve can not be used as a comparison simply because motivations and incentives in Eve are unreal.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt
Slade Trillgon
Brutor Force Federated
#59 - 2014-03-11 11:31:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Slade Trillgon
Adunh Slavy wrote:
Bronden Neopatus wrote:

What makes you think that people would be any better than they are in existing societies without a government?

Look at EVE for a virtual world as you ask it.

Look at the tribes of Papua New Guinea for the real world as you ask it.


What would make me think that? History.

Examine the instances of places with more government control. Are they more or less prosporous than places with less government control? Take a look at human advancements. Is there more or less inovation where government is involved?

You want to compare nearly stone age tribal cultures with post renessance cultures? See that apple? Does it look like an orange? Nope, I don't think so.

I'll await your Somalia canard and then point out Somalia is the result of a failed scocialist state and is in no way the result of an evolution towards a volintary sscociety.

You want to use Eve as a comparision? Eve where no one starves, no one can die? Please get a grip. Eve can not be used as a comparison simply because motivations and incentives in Eve are unreal.



The problem with societies without little to no government is that a large portion of the human population are morally charged and do not like to see the total subjugation of the lower classes, in the likes of what occurred when man was left to their own accord during the early years of the Capitalist experiment.

The socialist movement in the States was a direct backlash from the basic enslavement the workers experienced in the US pre 1890. If those that want governments to mostly dissolve, succeed at getting what they want, they need to better self regulate themselves; otherwise the masses will not be pacified like they were when they were totally uneducated.
Marcus Gord
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#60 - 2014-03-11 11:35:43 UTC
MutnantRebel wrote:
never knew Star Trek Backstory.....


Not many do, it never got much screentime/mention.

One big mention it got though was a DS9 episode. IIRC the whole episode was set back in time (for them) in some great depression a few years from now.

Been a while since i watched it.

In a few moments you will have an experience that will seem completely real. It will be the result of your subconscious fears transformed to your conscious awareness.

http://i.imgur.com/LM2NKUf.png