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Crime & Punishment

 
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High-sec ganking
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Dsparil Mal
SUNDERING
Goonswarm Federation
#141 - 2014-03-13 02:18:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Dsparil Mal
Quote:
God dammit back up your big talk about pvp in highsec and come ******* fight us.



So tell me, what system do you mine in again?

Erotica 1 for CSM 9!
Anslo
Scope Works
#142 - 2014-03-13 03:26:58 UTC
Dsparil Mal wrote:
Quote:
God dammit back up your big talk about pvp in highsec and come ******* fight us.



So tell me, what system do you mine in again?


Huola.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
Valleria Darkmoon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#143 - 2014-03-13 03:30:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Valleria Darkmoon
Matogg wrote:
A few days ago I decided to learn how to use the forums after having offered various game-play ideas to GM's through petitions . I was always told to go to the forums because they would be more apt to seriously look over my ideas there than they would petitions . The fact that i've posted here is not to take something away from you that you've been used to doing like hi-sec ganking but to let people know that it's being abused.....much more so than a few years ago when this activity was rarely heard of and that went double where freighters were concerned . Hi-sec may not have to be totally safe but it should be much safer than it is today where ganking has taken on an almost organized crime look and feel . That's not right and it's only fun to a small portion of the players playing EvE most of whom seem to post in this thread . I know that there are many others who feel about it in a similar manner as myself but I can see now why they might not want to post on the forums . From my own experience I've been threatened in-game , told I'd better not poke my nose outside my station and even had to sit through one "tasteless" rap video from a young man who probably dreamed that there was bits of wisdom among all those 4 letter words as he blamed CCP for posting it on U-Tube .

I'd like to clear a few things up:
#1 I appreciate all the tips I've received on how to avoid being ganked even though I suspected that they were delivered more out of loathing than a legitimate concern for my welfare .
#2 I've been around EvE for much longer than most of you , judging from your profiles and for very good reason Matogg is an alt so if you're wasting your isk trying to figure out that he's in Jita then waste not.... want not and that goes for blowing him up . He looses nothing of any consequence and that includes his pod . Don't waste your resources . BTW any content in this thread are solely the ideas of me . Just one player .
#3 Stop telling me to go play WOW . I've got a sizable investment in EvE and I'm only trying to make MY GAME a better place to play in . Besides I understand that WOW has a sizable part of the world population owning accounts in it so it couldn't be as bad as all that . Just not my game .
#4 I have never lost a ship in hi-sec due to ganking [I have a few tricks of my own] and neither have any of my alts . My concern with ganking is only because a new breed of player is abusing and changing the game and yes I have sympathy for guys just trying to move an expensive load of moon-goo materials and other T2 and T3 building materials . If they take it in 2 loads that means they just doubled their chances of getting ganked especially going through these 0.5 security bottleneck systems that organized hi-sec gankers love so well [routes to every major hub has them] . Yes , I know there are things to prevent trouble . Not everybody has access to the best ways though .

OK there was no way to pass up pointing a couple of things out.

#4 is almost certainly a lie, why would you petition the GMs if you hadn't been ganked. It is very difficult to believe that you have some altruistic outlook that caused you to feel you need to protect these helpless high sec inhabitants just minding their own business albeit in an incredibly silly way.

In a similar vein I've seen people IRL that will sit half the day and watch handicapped spaces to call the police to ticket/tow anyone parks there without a permit. Now they may believe they are doing the right thing and most of us may even agree but when you look into someone like that, surprise surprise they've got a thalidomide baby son or daughter without working legs (or some other such misfortune). What they are doing is trying to make sure no one is in that handicapped spot for when THEY need it. Even without being one of the people who will necessarily condemn this sort of ratting to the police over somewhat trivial things behavior (there are people who do), the point is that no one spends that kind of time looking out for other people. Human nature is wired to help the victims of emergencies it is NOT wired to be perpetually on guard for those most likely to be the victims of the next emergency. You may help someone in need you see directly in front of you but you will not go out to look for people that need help. It's actually considered a psychological disorder if you do these things. It's not a superhero complex but it is something to that effect.

Secondly, GMs telling you to post about your "idea" here instead of in a petition can essentially be translated in the following manner:

"What happened to you was well within the parameters of the game and hence we will not be doing anything about it, neither in your particular case nor in general. If you still wish to vent / cry / appeal to others may we present you with this electronic version of a soapbox / tissue / microphone."

Reality has an almost infinite capacity to resist oversimplification.
Winchester Steele
#144 - 2014-03-13 06:32:15 UTC
Can I get the 20 seconds of my life back that I spent reading this garbage troll OP? What?

...

Matogg
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#145 - 2014-03-13 07:57:45 UTC
Valleria Darkmoon wrote:


OK there was no way to pass up pointing a couple of things out.

#4 is almost certainly a lie, why would you petition the GMs if you hadn't been ganked. It is very difficult to believe that you have some altruistic outlook that caused you to feel you need to protect these helpless high sec inhabitants just minding their own business albeit in an incredibly silly way.

In a similar vein I've seen people IRL that will sit half the day and watch handicapped spaces to call the police to ticket/tow anyone parks there without a permit. Now they may believe they are doing the right thing and most of us may even agree but when you look into someone like that, surprise surprise they've got a thalidomide baby son or daughter without working legs (or some other such misfortune). What they are doing is trying to make sure no one is in that handicapped spot for when THEY need it. Even without being one of the people who will necessarily condemn this sort of ratting to the police over somewhat trivial things behavior (there are people who do), the point is that no one spends that kind of time looking out for other people. Human nature is wired to help the victims of emergencies it is NOT wired to be perpetually on guard for those most likely to be the victims of the next emergency. You may help someone in need you see directly in front of you but you will not go out to look for people that need help. It's actually considered a psychological disorder if you do these things. It's not a superhero complex but it is something to that effect.

Secondly, GMs telling you to post about your "idea" here instead of in a petition can essentially be translated in the following manner:

"What happened to you was well within the parameters of the game and hence we will not be doing anything about it, neither in your particular case nor in general. If you still wish to vent / cry / appeal to others may we present you with this electronic version of a soapbox / tissue / microphone."


I've never been ganked in high sec and I really don't care if you believe me . Talk to me nice and I might tell you about the time I tanked a gank attempt from a T3 battlecruiser in high sec while I was mining in a mackinaw . I'm sure CONCORD blew it up but I didn't stick around long enough to find out . I have been ganked in both null sec and low sec but since i'm not concerned with those areas that was OK with me . Congrats to them Big smile

It makes me sad when somebody suggests that there's only room in this world for people who are only concerned with their own personal feelings and has a "a psychological disorder" if you want to try and make life a little easier on people you don't even know . I feel that high-sec is where people , new to the game and not ready to go into null-sec yet , just want to mine and do carebear stuff while they build up the skills they will need to navigate through one of the most complicated MMO's anybody can play . This without being constantly harassed by PvPers , insistent on remaining at the PvP kiddy table .

I like your delusion above about what you dream CCP is really telling me but I beg to differ with you . CCP is a business and a business often looks out for it's own interests among other things . If people start to leave and maybe GO to games like WOW [as I've personally been asked to do by some] where they apparently look out for the interests of ALL their clients then that's bad for business . Changes made have been the installation of CONCORD , the empowerment of CONCORD making them stronger , changes to can flipping [that used to be the thing to do ] and recently changes to "bumping" . Which is just to name a few . It's just my opinion but since the bumping change the organization of CODE has gone to straight ganking . Guess they'll show us , huh ? I've got a hunch that Mr . James315 and CODE may very well end up being the saviours of high-sec just the way he sees it but not for the reasons he thought .
Matogg
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#146 - 2014-03-13 08:08:59 UTC
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:
Apologies for coming so late to such a quality thread...

Matogg: With each nerf to non-consensual conflict in hisec you kill EvE in a death of 1,000 cuts. If you want theme-park, go to WoW. I will continue to kill-it-forward in your name, and the name of your petition-bear brothers. YOU are killing your bear brothers with this heresy against HTFU, I am just GOD's instrument.

Anslo: Your ePeening and elitism against other pvp'ers while hiding out in an NPC corp is...delicious. Also, your BC killboard at a 4:1 K:D and abysmal ISK lost-to-killed ratio seems a bit outpaced by your mouth? Came expecting a pvp God, left seeing a sheep in blob clothing

F


Feyd Rautha Harkonnen read my last post . You and your psychotic collateral damage mentality are very much a part of what I'm looking to change in hi-sec . kill a lot of miners and it will begin to draw attention . Play that Forward Bear
Danalee
A Blessed Bean
Pandemic Horde
#147 - 2014-03-13 08:21:31 UTC
Matogg wrote:
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:
Apologies for coming so late to such a quality thread...

Matogg: With each nerf to non-consensual conflict in hisec you kill EvE in a death of 1,000 cuts. If you want theme-park, go to WoW. I will continue to kill-it-forward in your name, and the name of your petition-bear brothers. YOU are killing your bear brothers with this heresy against HTFU, I am just GOD's instrument.

Anslo: Your ePeening and elitism against other pvp'ers while hiding out in an NPC corp is...delicious. Also, your BC killboard at a 4:1 K:D and abysmal ISK lost-to-killed ratio seems a bit outpaced by your mouth? Came expecting a pvp God, left seeing a sheep in blob clothing

F


Feyd Rautha Harkonnen read my last post . You and your psychotic collateral damage mentality are very much a part of what I'm looking to change in hi-sec . kill a lot of miners and it will begin to draw attention . Play that Forward Bear


Must... Resist... showing support for Feyd....

I'm sure he is shaking in his boots, but calling people psychotic because they don't agree with you on internet spaceships isn't healthy to say the least. A lot of miners have been getting killed for quite some time now, when will your plan to change perfectly good stuff by whining about it come in motion.. Oh wait.... Sad

It's PAY it forward, you delicious troll you.

D.

Bear

Proud member of the Somalian Coast Guard Authority

Member and Juror of the Court of Crime and Punishment
Dsparil Mal
SUNDERING
Goonswarm Federation
#148 - 2014-03-13 08:35:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Dsparil Mal
Wow there is some hard core crying in this thread. A lot of the talk coming from carebears here reminds me of idiots on WoW who spend their whole days farming on rp servers(yup, I even came from WoW). Hell, I even lost a carrier the other day and I'm still saying it, if you can't stomach a sandbox game then seriously go find something else to do. A bunch of whining and crying because you couldn't afk-mine without getting jacked with isn't going to change anything. **** like that is the very core and heart of this game. Without that the game truly would be the most boring game in the entire mmo community. Sounds to me like you all need to grow some spine.

Erotica 1 for CSM 9!
Matogg
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#149 - 2014-03-14 08:52:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Matogg
Danalee wrote:
Must... Resist... showing support for Feyd....[/i]

I'm sure he is shaking in his boots, but calling people psychotic because they don't agree with you on internet spaceships isn't healthy to say the least. A lot of miners have been getting killed for quite some time now, when will your plan to change perfectly good stuff by whining about it come in motion.. Oh wait.... Sad

It's PAY it forward, you delicious troll you.

D.

Bear


This is what I'm talking about :

" Let me introduce you to Feyd's Kill-It-Forward queue...

For every carebear who calls in the EvE-O forums for nerfs to hisec, rails against HTFU or who simply insults an emissary of pvp, an additional innocent carebear will be hunted down and murdered. I will not hunt down the transgressor, I will put a stake in the heart of an innocent and let him know who is ultimately responsible for his demise"

It's the essence of "collateral damage mentality" Oh I can't hit the one who made me mad so I'll settle for somebody innocent ! Psychotic is putting it nicely compared to how I really feel about that train of thought and always have every since I first heard of it a long time ago .

EvE is not purely a fighting game if , in fact , it ever was meant to be . I'm only advocating a change to the high sec part of it . I've noticed that when someone has a different approach to the game that involves high sec ganking they are shouted down , bullied , badgered , threatened in game and even people that may agree with them are made to feel intimidated . These things along with the act of organized ganking in high sec all fall under the same umbrella.....Harassment . Harassment is a EULA offense so don't blame me if I feel that the people who practice it are THUGS . If you don't like what I say then give me an intelligent argument . Some do and they have my respect even if they don't agree with me .

I have a new spin on an old idea that I touched on in my original post . There are people who remind me that the cops in real life don't get there in time to save your life . If cops SEE a murder about to takes place such as a man brandishing a loaded weapon they will pull their guns and order him to drop it or die . If they don't drop it immediately , well you know what happens and they always shoot to kill .
I believe it would be a nice feature if CONCORD were to spawn when the "disable safety " button was clicked and before the first shot was fired . If they found 1 or more vessels with their safeties OFF it could be determined if it was a gank on a player that said ships had NO kill right or war declaration on . If the safety went back on CONCORD could just holster their guns again . Nobody has to die . At least they would be there to kill the offender before they caused any irreparable damage . A very small ship might be able to be insta-popped but what would a ganker want with a ship that size when any hauling could be done with a tanked ship . The act of a duel shouldn't even be enough to call CONCORD up since it would be by consent . Besides if they did come it could just be like any instance where no shots were fired by CONCORD .
With a change like that gankers would be able to ply their trade somewhere where they aren't driving new players out of the game as some have stated that they find pleasure in .
Danalee
A Blessed Bean
Pandemic Horde
#150 - 2014-03-14 09:24:37 UTC
Matogg wrote:
Danalee wrote:
Must... Resist... showing support for Feyd....[/i]

I'm sure he is shaking in his boots, but calling people psychotic because they don't agree with you on internet spaceships isn't healthy to say the least. A lot of miners have been getting killed for quite some time now, when will your plan to change perfectly good stuff by whining about it come in motion.. Oh wait.... Sad

It's PAY it forward, you delicious troll you.

D.

Bear


This is what I'm talking about :

" Let me introduce you to Feyd's Kill-It-Forward queue...
For every carebear who calls in the EvE-O forums for nerfs to hisec, rails against HTFU or who simply insults an emissary of pvp, an additional innocent carebear will be hunted down and murdered. I will not hunt down the transgressor, I will put a stake in the heart of an innocent and let him know who is ultimately responsible for his demise"
It's the essence of "collateral damage mentality" Oh I can't hit the one who made me mad so I'll settle for somebody innocent ! Psychotic is putting it nicely compared to how I really feel about that train of thought and always have every since I first heard of it a long time ago .

Quite the contrary, it's the essence of someone playing a game he likes who wants to put an end to people trying to make said game into wow because it's too hard/not wow/whatever. Calling this gamer psychotic is not only stupid, it shows a state of mental instability resulting in being blind for boundaries between real world and gameworld. If you really feel angry about someone liking a computergame and defending it by ingame means, you should search for help, now.

Matogg wrote:
EvE is not purely a fighting game if , in fact , it ever was meant to be . I'm only advocating a change to the high sec part of it . I've noticed that when someone has a different approach to the game that involves high sec ganking they are shouted down , bullied , badgered , threatened in game and even people that may agree with them are made to feel intimidated . These things along with the act of organized ganking in high sec all fall under the same umbrella.....Harassment . Harassment is a EULA offense so don't blame me if I feel that the people who practice it are THUGS . If you don't like what I say then give me an intelligent argument . Some do and they have my respect even if they don't agree with me .

Asking for intelligent argument by means of nonsensical rants will not result in intelligent argument ever.
If you don't like how hisec mecanics work, adapt, take action or move away.
Or as CCP puts it: HTFU. Don't whine for magic spacepolice to save you, that's NOT taking action.
I am not shouting, bullying, threatening badgering nor harrasing you. I am concerned for you.
Think about what you are saying. You want to ruin the game for everyone. The game is meant to be as it is and is liked and has thrived because of it, not despite it.


Matogg wrote:
I have a bad new spin on an old bad idea: MAGIC SPACE POLICE PART 2

Again, it's guys like you who drive players away, where gankers drive bots and hoarders away.

Go play progresquest if you don't like our vibrant community, self policed and risk-filled universe.

D.

Bear

Proud member of the Somalian Coast Guard Authority

Member and Juror of the Court of Crime and Punishment
Kaea Astridsson
Hoplite Brigade
Ushra'Khan
#151 - 2014-03-14 09:38:39 UTC
Regarding the new players, aren't there already "rules" set to place to protect them further? Rethoric question I know there are...

You're met with so much resentment as you're clearly advocating for the destruction of a criminal path, a path a fair share of the playerbase came to EvE for. I'm sure you'd get some **** flung your way if you proposed something that completely removed another playstyle as you then tell others how to enjoy their game.

In short; Concord not broken - don't fix.

Get on Comms, or die typing.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#152 - 2014-03-14 14:14:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Matogg wrote:

" Let me introduce you to Feyd's Kill-It-Forward queue...

For every carebear who calls in the EvE-O forums for nerfs to hisec, rails against HTFU or who simply insults an emissary of pvp, an additional innocent carebear will be hunted down and murdered. I will not hunt down the transgressor, I will put a stake in the heart of an innocent and let him know who is ultimately responsible for his demise"

It's the essence of "collateral damage mentality" Oh I can't hit the one who made me mad so I'll settle for somebody innocent ! Psychotic is putting it nicely compared to how I really feel about that train of thought and always have every since I first heard of it a long time ago.
Yet Feyd is also incredibly supportive of anybody that would like actually to play the game instead of being afk or hiding behind the NPC corps and Concord, as are most of the so called "psychopaths" who have decided to play Eve as criminals and content makers. Highsec is not safe, it is merely a bit safer than elsewhere, and according to CCP it is working as intended.

Quote:
EvE is not purely a fighting game if , in fact , it ever was meant to be . I'm only advocating a change to the high sec part of it . I've noticed that when someone has a different approach to the game that involves high sec ganking they are shouted down , bullied , badgered , threatened in game and even people that may agree with them are made to feel intimidated . These things along with the act of organized ganking in high sec all fall under the same umbrella.....Harassment . Harassment is a EULA offense so don't blame me if I feel that the people who practice it are THUGS . If you don't like what I say then give me an intelligent argument . Some do and they have my respect even if they don't agree with me .
Firstly Eve is primarily a PVP game, CCP have said as much repeatedly in the new player FAQ and in the press. PvP in the context of Eve isn't restricted to shooting other people in the face.

Secondly CCP as the makers and owners of Eve get to define what harassment and griefing are, you on the other hand do not. If CCP say that all of the things that you're moaning about aren't harassment, then they're not harassment. If you disagree with what CCP consider to be legitimate gameplay options you're free to vote with your wallet and leave.

Quote:
I have a new spin on an old idea that I touched on in my original post . There are people who remind me that the cops in real life don't get there in time to save your life . If cops SEE a murder about to takes place such as a man brandishing a loaded weapon they will pull their guns and order him to drop it or die . If they don't drop it immediately , well you know what happens and they always shoot to kill .
No, you brought nothing new to the table and regurgitated the same crap as the last person to suggest this, all the while believing that your take on it is unique and special.

With reference to the police shooting someone with a drawn gun, maybe that happens where you live, people where I live have little access to firearms, and the majority of police here don't carry them either. We're kind of civilised like that in the old Empire.

Quote:
I believe it would be a nice feature if CONCORD were to spawn when the "disable safety " button was clicked and before the first shot was fired . If they found 1 or more vessels with their safeties OFF it could be determined if it was a gank on a player that said ships had NO kill right or war declaration on . If the safety went back on CONCORD could just holster their guns again . Nobody has to die . At least they would be there to kill the offender before they caused any irreparable damage . A very small ship might be able to be insta-popped but what would a ganker want with a ship that size when any hauling could be done with a tanked ship . The act of a duel shouldn't even be enough to call CONCORD up since it would be by consent . Besides if they did come it could just be like any instance where no shots were fired by CONCORD .
So basically you want Concord to be A: even more omnipotent than they already are, and B: to protect your stuff because you're too lazy to do so?

Quote:
With a change like that gankers would be able to ply their trade somewhere where they aren't driving new players out of the game as some have stated that they find pleasure in .
Do you have irrevocable evidence that gankers take pleasure in driving new players from the game? Or is it actually the case that the people who leave because of gankers are just plain unsuited to playing in an openworld PvP sandbox without the devs holding their hands like they do in other games?

Where would gankers ply their trade if highsec was closed off to them by mechanics changes?

The vast majority of targets worth ganking are in highsec. It's where people fly all of their worldly belongings in untanked haulers through chokepoints, where people bling out their ships with hideously expensive modules that do absolutely nothing a T2 module can't do with 99% of the efficiency at 1/10 of the price, where people feel that they should be entitled to not play the game while pretending to play the game, otherwise known as afk without interference.

Avoiding being ganked in highsec is actually really easy, it's called not being spectacularly stupid, or terminally dumb. Being at the keyboard helps hugely, as does adhering to the idea that everybody is out to get you until proven otherwise.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Balshem Rozenzweig
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
#153 - 2014-03-14 14:14:22 UTC
Anslo wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Funny, then why hasn't the bumping and ganking stopped? I ganked a guy in Sinq Laison earlier, and no "carebears with guns" came to stop me. The botter in question didn't even have his drones out, so no one got on my killmail.


We prevent the high<->low camps, we teach our bears how to survive and kill. We can't be everywhere at once. But we still win simply by existing and doing what we do :)

Quote:
I have to say, I question your effectiveness. And if all you meant by that statement above was that you stopped mining... well then, I guess we really know who wins, don't we? That's kinda the point of whole New Order thing, to make those freaking people actually play the game.

The funny thing is, I can't even fly a venture vOv

But no, the miners we have still mine, and OUR miners don't get ganked. They learn. And we grow, everyday. And there is nothing you can do to stop us :)


Quote:
If you want to thank us, I totally understand

Gratitude is reserved for the relevant.


and all of that thanks to Erotica1

"NUTS!!!" - general McAuliffe
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Doomheim
#154 - 2014-03-14 16:35:40 UTC
Matogg wrote:

This is what I'm talking about :

" Let me introduce you to Feyd's Kill-It-Forward queue...

For every carebear who calls in the EvE-O forums for nerfs to hisec, rails against HTFU or who simply insults an emissary of pvp, an additional innocent carebear will be hunted down and murdered. I will not hunt down the transgressor, I will put a stake in the heart of an innocent and let him know who is ultimately responsible for his demise"

It's the essence of "collateral damage mentality" Oh I can't hit the one who made me mad so I'll settle for somebody innocent ! Psychotic is putting it nicely compared to how I really feel about that train of thought and always have every since I first heard of it a long time ago .

EvE is not purely a fighting game if , in fact , it ever was meant to be . I'm only advocating a [NERF] to the high sec part of it .

[further heresy redacted]


Sadly Matogg you just aren't getting the message, and fail to see it is you that is now causing innocent carebear deaths with your continued heresy...and here's the thing, I am adding another +1 to the Kill-It-Forward queue.

You rail about death of innocents in hisec and call for nerfs as remedy, yet won't simply shut your yap to save a single one from my blade!

That's the carebear hypocrisy I love and reveal in glorious technicolor with my Kill-It-Forward program!

"Make hisec safer for ME, the individual inept, the lame and infirm pansy..ME". Yet you don't care about the others your nerf-hisec heresy is killing, for if you did you wouldn't keep wantonly sacrificing their lives on my altar would you?

All while saying *I* am a psychopath. I am blameless, I am just an instrument of God's will.

F


Would you like to know more?
Dearthair
Goibhniu Industries
#155 - 2014-03-14 23:01:02 UTC
Coming from a (mostly) carebear style player. I pilot tanked procurers and skiffs. I put a serious tank on my orca. When I get a freigher, 1b is the limit of the value of what I will carry. Does any of this prevent me from being ganked if someone chooses to do so? Not at all. But unless someone has a particular problem with me, they aren't going to gank a well tanked skiff when they can go blow up a hulk for 1/5 the effort and isk value in ships, with a higher return on the investment.

One thing many people who don't shoot at other people seem to fail to understand is that PvP of some sort is impossible to avoid in this game. If you mine ore to sell, then that makes someone else's ore less valuable because you have increased the supply. If you build something, then you are in direct competition to sell that item on the market for the greatest profit. If you run missions, you reduce the value of everyone's LP from that corp.

PvP is unavoidable in EVE. This is why I cheer when other people get ganked. It makes my stuff more valuable. If I had the spare isk, I would sponsor gankers to blast my competition. Who wouldn't like to see fewer other miners in that ice belt, after all? As a producer, I NEED stuff to get blown up. The more stuff the pew pew PvPers blow up, the more my stuff is worth. So...to all the gankers out there: keep shooting the idiots who can't be bothered to fly tanked ships or take other basic safety precautions.

NBLID (Not Blue Let It Die), the new motto for miners, manufacturers, and retailers everywhere.
Matogg
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#156 - 2014-03-15 00:20:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Matogg
Feyd , come on , how about a little honesty here . You blow people up because you like it . Stop blaming God .

Jonah......5 different quotes Shocked . Such anger ! However you make several good points . Not the least of which is the fact that my last post was kind of redundant toward the end . I had a reason for that although even I am coming to wonder if the installation of the "Magic Police" , as it's been called , is even possible .

So lets talk about something that IS possible . Freighters . Since i've started playing EvE [steady since circa : 2005] i've noticed a number of changes and not all from CCP . For instance there was a time when a freighter could pretty much travel unmolested through hi sec . Not too hard to believe when you consider the massive shields , even larger armor HP's and the stupid amount of hull tank they have even on a ship that carries no mods . Then the "brainiacs" from certain super alliances out in null-sec took to dreaming up ways to exploit high sec and came up with the idea that it would be nice to sneak around the hubs and chokepoints and gank freighters that are often moving to or from null-sec/ low-sec loaded with just one guy's entire wealth . No help , no logistics and very few options open to him .
Perhaps it's time to allow mod placement on freighters and jump freighters to defend themselves from these new [in my experience] threats so CONCORD could show up . The big shiney bumping ships that keep the freighter from warping off could also pick up a little action from CONCORD since recent bumping changes seem to be mainly to protect miners .
Next point is insurance . In R/L insurance cost a small fraction of what's insured and covers about 80% of your entire loss . In EvE insurance is not only high it only covers a small fraction of the cost to replace a jump freighter and none of what it is carrying . IMO I think that a reasonable price and an 80% , across the board , payout is enough to deter anybody from trashing their ships to take advantage of the game . Of course in my in game experience if there's a way to do something unintended somebody will think up a way to do it .

BTW as stated before I'm new to the forums and not really familiar with the many discussions that have gone on before covering points that I'm making . To me they are my original views .
Dearthair
Goibhniu Industries
#157 - 2014-03-15 00:26:11 UTC
Matogg...on the insurance. If we are comparing insurance in EVE to insurance IRL, then there is a reason insurance in EVE is so expensive. People are far less likely to blow up your car and take your stuff IRL. The insurance companies have far less risk involved in insuring someone IRL than in EVE.

NBLID (Not Blue Let It Die), the new motto for miners, manufacturers, and retailers everywhere.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#158 - 2014-03-15 00:40:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Dearthair wrote:
Matogg...on the insurance. If we are comparing insurance in EVE to insurance IRL, then there is a reason insurance in EVE is so expensive. People are far less likely to blow up your car and take your stuff IRL. The insurance companies have far less risk involved in insuring someone IRL than in EVE.
Further to this, insurance in Eve is based upon the base mineral value of your ship, it doesn't cover any additional materials required to build it, and definitely doesn't cover modules or cargo. It used to be quite common to build ships and then self destruct them to claim against the insurance for profit, then CCP changed the way insurance worked to close the loophole.

In the case of T2 and capital ships, like freighters, the base mineral value is a minor percentage of the total build cost, so the insurance payout is also a minor percentage of the build costs.

There is however a way to insure cargo, it's called using 3rd party haulers such as Red/Black Frog and PushX and utilising the collateral mechanic as insurance against ganking. If the cargo gets delivered you have your cargo, if your 3rd party hauler gets ganked you get the collateral, if you set it right you can even profit from the 3rd party hauler exploding, even more so if your alts or friends are the ones causing the explosion.

Ganking freighters can be a hugely profitable business if you find the right targets, and or work both ends of the equation.

Matogg wrote:
Jonah......5 different quotes Shocked . Such anger ! However you make several good points .
P
Sometimes it's easier to break stuff down into chunks, if I don't I often end up rambling and posting a huge wall'o'text.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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Danalee
A Blessed Bean
Pandemic Horde
#159 - 2014-03-15 09:53:45 UTC
Matogg wrote:

So lets talk about something that IS possible . Freighters . Since i've started playing EvE [steady since circa : 2005] i've noticed a number of changes and not all from CCP . For instance there was a time when a freighter could pretty much travel unmolested through hi sec . Not too hard to believe when you consider the massive shields , even larger armor HP's and the stupid amount of hull tank they have even on a ship that carries no mods . Then the "brainiacs" from certain super alliances out in null-sec took to dreaming up ways to exploit high sec and came up with the idea that it would be nice to sneak around the hubs and chokepoints and gank freighters that are often moving to or from null-sec/ low-sec loaded with just one guy's entire wealth . No help , no logistics and very few options open to him .
Perhaps it's time to allow mod placement on freighters and jump freighters to defend themselves from these new [in my experience] threats so CONCORD could show up . The big shiney bumping ships that keep the freighter from warping off could also pick up a little action from CONCORD since recent bumping changes seem to be mainly to protect miners .


The nullsec bit is quite paranoid but I do support the idea to have people use mods on freighters.
Give them the choice to fit for tank or speed or current cargo capacity.

You do realise that more freighters will be ganked and more people will come crying because of it, I hope?

D.

Bear

Proud member of the Somalian Coast Guard Authority

Member and Juror of the Court of Crime and Punishment
Istyn
Freight Club
#160 - 2014-03-15 14:13:21 UTC
Matogg wrote:

So lets talk about something that IS possible . Freighters . Since i've started playing EvE [steady since circa : 2005] i've noticed a number of changes and not all from CCP . For instance there was a time when a freighter could pretty much travel unmolested through hi sec . Not too hard to believe when you consider the massive shields , even larger armor HP's and the stupid amount of hull tank they have even on a ship that carries no mods . Then the "brainiacs" from certain super alliances out in null-sec took to dreaming up ways to exploit high sec and came up with the idea that it would be nice to sneak around the hubs and chokepoints and gank freighters that are often moving to or from null-sec/ low-sec loaded with just one guy's entire wealth . No help , no logistics and very few options open to him .
Perhaps it's time to allow mod placement on freighters and jump freighters to defend themselves from these new [in my experience] threats so CONCORD could show up . The big shiney bumping ships that keep the freighter from warping off could also pick up a little action from CONCORD since recent bumping changes seem to be mainly to protect miners .


To give fittings slots to freighters, they would have to be nerfed.

They can't be capable of carrying >1mil m3, so their base cargo would get nerfed to account for expanded cargoholds (and rigs, possibly), both of which reduce their ability to tank - not to mention in the interests of balance their base EHP would have to be reduced to stop a Damage Control II making them utterly ridiculous. No matter how you'd fit it, it would perform worse than they currently do, and freighters do their job very well at the moment. They're intended for carrying bulk low value items, like hauling giant amounts of minerals around, not for filling with Vindicators or everything you have in EVE. No ship can save you from a lack of common sense or risk assessment.

As for going GCC for bumping, christ, the Jita undock would be amazing.