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Nerfing the line cost of S&I Jobs at NPC Stations.
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Robert Morningstar
Morningstar Excavations LTD
Business Alliance of Manufacturers and Miners
#21 - 2014-03-18 00:44:55 UTC
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
Hypatia AH103 wrote:
An increase wouldnt be a bad thing, I am just worried that if it increases to much it might hurt the new guys too much. Those of us that are established wouldnt bat much of an eye but someone just getting into industry might be.

Adding a larger fee but perhaps having our standing with the corp/faction lower it a tad I think would be a good mechanic. Dont ask me what kind of raise would be good, I have NO clue. I would need to sit down and look at the spreadsheets more and I am way to tired to do that right now.



Standings are much harder for newbies to get than the sorts of levels of ISK we are talking here.

Assume the prices are raised to 50 times present prices. That would make it ~600k ISK per research line per day. For a short reseach job, that isn't much to a new player - the only BPOs that would be really, really hammered hard by this change would be cruiser/destroyer BPOs and mineral compression module BPOs.

If it incentivises existing industrialists to move their operations to POSes, however, it will help the newbies a LOT by freeing up those public slots.



why would you even want to do me on a mineral compression module BPO?
Allison A'vani
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#22 - 2014-03-19 20:51:26 UTC
I fully endorse this as I do all my research in POSes, increase my profit margin please!
Salpad
Carebears with Attitude
#23 - 2014-03-23 01:43:41 UTC
Batelle wrote:
[quote=Gizznitt Malikite]IMO leave PE and invention slot cost alone.


I don't know about Invention, haven't expored that yet at all, but PE and ME slot costs are the ones that need to be increased the most. As it is now, it's so silly cheap that people just routinely slam in their BPOs to be queued up for improvements, without any need to do a cost-benefit calculation involving the ISK cost.

Time cost, sure, that is serious, but the ISK cost of the hours, days or week of BPO research, that is rightly regarded as trivial.

That needs to stop, BPO researchers need to be forced to think, and the way to force them to think is to up the cost.
adriaans
Ankaa.
Nair Al-Zaurak
#24 - 2014-03-31 00:02:51 UTC
A POS purely for manufacturing would using using todays fuel prices would be between 4861-6018isk slot/hour.

As a result raising NPC costs for manufacturing much more than by 10x (3333isk) seems like a bad idea, and would be very detrimental to new players who usually start with cheap items like ammo which would be hit most by these changes.

Research costs (ME/PE/COPY) are between 20-30k/hour using POS (depending on config).

----True oldschool solo pvp'er---- My latest vid: Insanity IV
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#25 - 2014-03-31 16:00:54 UTC
adriaans wrote:
A POS purely for manufacturing would using using todays fuel prices would be between 4861-6018isk slot/hour.

As a result raising NPC costs for manufacturing much more than by 10x (3333isk) seems like a bad idea, and would be very detrimental to new players who usually start with cheap items like ammo which would be hit most by these changes.

Research costs (ME/PE/COPY) are between 20-30k/hour using POS (depending on config).



How are your POS's configured?

Realize, you need a mix of hardeners, weapons, and/or EWAR on the POS as defenses (even in highsec), and should not operate a POS with ONLY labs and MFG arrays. That's like putting 500m in goods in your untanked iteron and flying it to Jita. You can do it, but it is very unwise.

Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#26 - 2014-03-31 17:02:47 UTC

By my estimates:
A Medium Equipment MFG POS would have about 30 Equip lines, 20 Component lines on a Medium Tower. I would suspect 30-40 lines would operate full time. A rough estimate of 300k per hour for fuel puts this at 7.5-10k per line.

A Medium T2 Ship production requires 20% more material when operated at a POS, and probably wouldn't be moved there.

A Medium Research POS would have about 10 Copy, 9 ME, 3 PE, and 11x Invention. Realistically, this would have 20 Lines operating near full time. A rough estimate of 300k per hour for fuel puts this at about 15k per line.


Give the above pricing, paying 33k for the MAJOR conveniences station MFG provides seems very reasonable.

Also, the base rate of the stations I utilize is 333 isk / hour, not 3333 isk / hour. My suggested target was 33k isk / hour which seems very balanced to me.



adriaans
Ankaa.
Nair Al-Zaurak
#27 - 2014-03-31 21:37:00 UTC  |  Edited by: adriaans
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
adriaans wrote:
A POS purely for manufacturing would using using todays fuel prices would be between 4861-6018isk slot/hour.

As a result raising NPC costs for manufacturing much more than by 10x (3333isk) seems like a bad idea, and would be very detrimental to new players who usually start with cheap items like ammo which would be hit most by these changes.

Research costs (ME/PE/COPY) are between 20-30k/hour using POS (depending on config).



How are your POS's configured?

Realize, you need a mix of hardeners, weapons, and/or EWAR on the POS as defenses (even in highsec), and should not operate a POS with ONLY labs and MFG arrays. That's like putting 500m in goods in your untanked iteron and flying it to Jita. You can do it, but it is very unwise.





They don't need to be online during peace time, and that was in fact leaving space for multiple hardeners and e-war modules to actually be online.

Keep in mind it is more efficient isk wise to have one POS for manufacturing and another for labs and each being from different races faction.

edit; medium POS can easily field 60+ manufact lines. This also features a 0.75x time multipler, a rather huge benefit over NPC stations.
edit 2; MODULE lines (and obviously, drones, components, ammo, and such) .

edit 3; 3333 isk/hour wasnt what I said you used, it is what I said increasing prices beyond is where I believe the effect would be detrimental for newer players wanting to enter manufacturing as the items they start with (like ammo) would then be outcompeted by everyone else and leave no profit for them.


For lab costs, I am all for increasing the costs to your 33k level. Manufacturing, not so much, a 10x rise and observation of effects there would be far better in my opinion to ensure it doesn't negatively affect new players.

----True oldschool solo pvp'er---- My latest vid: Insanity IV
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