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Dev blog: Ship Painting Pilot Program

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Author
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#661 - 2014-03-13 21:37:49 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
To start, i think that the availability of custom skins is an excellent idea.

I have concerns however as to what you are actually trying to measure.

The problem is by tying this to the store, at the stated prices, and limited ships, what are you actually going to measure?

Is it the price point, or that people are going to use the store given enough incentive? Or the ships themselves, or whether players are interested? and then with all that trying to decide which variable is the relevant one?

You are going to get conflicting data, and have an extremely difficuilt job of determining which point actually affects it. You are making your own job needlessly complicated.

If you really want to decide desirability, give one random, skin blueprint free to each player from those you have made available, make it tradeable,and see how the market and players react.

That will give you much cleaner data, and also create interest for your future decision.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE

Xindi Kraid
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#662 - 2014-03-14 02:21:07 UTC
Nice to see the devs are finally looking at this considering it's been a possibility since V3 came out.

I am sure different hulls for each paint scheme isn't going to happen due to the overhead, both coding and player ( because who wan't so have to troll through the market for the specific one of a dozen variants of a vessel. if that happened nobody would bother to buy and sell alternate schemes).

I am hoping for something like a righ slot that changes the ship skin.
I am hoping we have limited customization to make our own scheme, though rather than just being stuck with various corporate/faction skins. As much as I love the KK paint scheme, I would like to have the ability to be able to set a pattern a, base color a secondary color and a trim color for instance. Plenty of customization options there.
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
#663 - 2014-03-14 08:46:12 UTC
I don't mind micro transactions for vanity items like skins, but I am really offended by the whole plex for a message in the time capsule laptop. I guess 6years of subs doesn't make me worthy enough to put in even a short message.

Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction...

Voxinian
#664 - 2014-03-14 10:45:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Voxinian
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:
I don't mind micro transactions for vanity items like skins, but I am really offended by the whole plex for a message in the time capsule laptop. I guess 6years of subs doesn't make me worthy enough to put in even a short message.

I would not mind if they were truly micro, but hte prices are hefty.. for a texture. I think anyone that assmbles a ship for the first time should haver the option to choose a preset of cheap or free skins... and then add some collectable rare skins for a bit higher price, but still 'micro' and not the price of half a plex or more. This does make CCP look good to the already paying customers.

And I agree about the plex for some words in a time capsule.
Bohneik Itohn
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#665 - 2014-03-14 12:55:37 UTC
First I need to say this: Just drop the idea that gankers are suddenly going to start going nuts over skinned ships. The increase in value a BS skin adds is very minimal in comparison to, say... The three faction ballistic controls and deadspace shield modules you keep throwing on there to make your "grinding" more "tolerable"....Roll

Another note that I think a lot of people are forgetting to point out in their haste to critique other aspects of this program.



Please don't change the name of the painted ships in the overview. It clutters our overview making it harder to parse information and make important decisions in high risk or combat situations. These ships serve exactly the same purpose in a fight as their unpainted counterparts and there is no reason to obfuscate that with unnecessary text. If this was going to change the attributes of the ship, change it's typical use or anything of that sort, changing the name of a skinned ship would be necessary and welcome. Skinning does none of these things, and therefore skinned ships don't need to be differentiated from the standard.

If I'm scouting hostiles and spot a small gang of a dozen to 15 ships I need to know the composition of the fleet immediately so that either I or the FC can make a decision immediately as to whether to engage, run, who the primaries are, etc... If that small gang is aligning towards my small gang getting ready to warp, and my overview is filled with a bunch of Suukuuvestaa this and Nugoeihuvi that.... That is an artificial barrier preventing me from getting critical information that is needed immediately. Fleet composition is 100% critical in small gang fights, and the FC needs that information immediately in many situations. If all I can get out of my overview is "What the FUUUUUU is all of this garbage in my overview, who did this crap?!" over voice chat before they warp, that's a fight that we lost because of cosmetic items.

Standard names in the overview PLEASE!

Wait, CCP kills kittens now too?!  - Freyya

Are you a forum alt? Have you ever wondered why your experience on the forums is always so frustrating and unrewarding? This may help.

Mocam
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#666 - 2014-03-14 14:28:33 UTC
I agree with Bohneik - a different mechanic is needed vs changing ship names like this via a blueprint.

Picture 2 years from now with 20 different color pallets to choose from for a given hull and a fleet op where an FC is trying to order his list to call primary targets...

That hull name needs to remain constant irrespective of the pretty colors someone chooses.
Sieges
#667 - 2014-03-14 15:17:37 UTC
Can you repackage a painted ship and have it retain the painted ship status? Can Super Capitals be painted at the POS ship maintenance array, since they cannot dock?
Devil Seven
Bandit Baking Club
Freight Train Diplomacy
#668 - 2014-03-14 16:10:21 UTC
If I could paint my thorax or Mega I would pay for it but atm it's a waste of isk for me sadly, really want to make my mega look nice
galrizian
Nordic Hawks
#669 - 2014-03-14 19:46:42 UTC
an idea for you.

1st you could have say 2 parts that could be painted.. skin part 1 wich would be the main hull base colour then skin part 2 wich would be the red/blue/green strips/dots/camo whatever you wanted to paint ontop of the hulls base colour.........black an red would look awsome \o/ or yellow on black like a wasp :P

if sellin them at a higher price an workin out how much the diffrence would be is a problem then why not just have them repackage to the orig way they are when 1st bought off the market....just make it so that customised ships cant be sold unless repackaged..............i mean that is the whole point in customisin somethin is too make it your own style in the 1st place lolz :)
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
#670 - 2014-03-14 19:58:00 UTC
Bohneik Itohn wrote:
First I need to say this: Just drop the idea that gankers are suddenly going to start going nuts over skinned ships. The increase in value a BS skin adds is very minimal in comparison to, say... The three faction ballistic controls and deadspace shield modules you keep throwing on there to make your "grinding" more "tolerable"....Roll

Another note that I think a lot of people are forgetting to point out in their haste to critique other aspects of this program.



Please don't change the name of the painted ships in the overview. It clutters our overview making it harder to parse information and make important decisions in high risk or combat situations. These ships serve exactly the same purpose in a fight as their unpainted counterparts and there is no reason to obfuscate that with unnecessary text. If this was going to change the attributes of the ship, change it's typical use or anything of that sort, changing the name of a skinned ship would be necessary and welcome. Skinning does none of these things, and therefore skinned ships don't need to be differentiated from the standard.

If I'm scouting hostiles and spot a small gang of a dozen to 15 ships I need to know the composition of the fleet immediately so that either I or the FC can make a decision immediately as to whether to engage, run, who the primaries are, etc... If that small gang is aligning towards my small gang getting ready to warp, and my overview is filled with a bunch of Suukuuvestaa this and Nugoeihuvi that.... That is an artificial barrier preventing me from getting critical information that is needed immediately. Fleet composition is 100% critical in small gang fights, and the FC needs that information immediately in many situations. If all I can get out of my overview is "What the FUUUUUU is all of this garbage in my overview, who did this crap?!" over voice chat before they warp, that's a fight that we lost because of cosmetic items.

Standard names in the overview PLEASE!



Well said, +1

Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction...

Imperator Universitas
Epsilon Inc
#671 - 2014-03-14 22:02:07 UTC

If we can request new ones, may we please have/get a skin for the Noctis? The Primae is an amazingly better looking ship, so why does it's counterpart look so bad?

Suggestion: Sisters of EVE rescue/salvage vessel, All white with the blue highlights...
Moshe 'Reed' Dayan
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#672 - 2014-03-17 02:43:02 UTC
Thank god.... I will finally have a chance to change the dumb green camo on the republic fleet issue ships.
Thaddeus Eggeras
Urkrathos Corp
LEGIO ASTARTES ARCANUM
#673 - 2014-03-17 02:49:44 UTC
To fix the already broken paint job idea.

For paint jobs, I think this would be the best way to do it. First make a new slot/slots in the fitting window for the paint jobs, instead of having them built in with the blue print. Also having a paint job doesn't change the type of ship it is, like how the Navy Comet turned into the Police Comet. There should be either just one slot for a paint job, or I'd like to see 3, and the 3 slots are for different parts of the ship, so you can change around different paint jobs for all different types of looks. Can start out with just one slot in the fitting window though if that's the best way. Any paint job can be applied to any ship also.
Also paint jobs costing AUR just needs to be taken away. They should all come from LP stores, I'd say 5 to 6 different paint jobs per LP store, and cost in LP and ISK is anywhere from what a +1 implant cost to a +3 implant depending on the paint job. This is so that the paint jobs doesn't raise the value of the ship it's on by too much. I think these changes would make having paint jobs on ships worth while, and not make your ship a target by just having a paint job. If you think this sounds good, please like and hopefully CCP will listen and instead of trying to get more money from us for something we have asked about for years, they listen and paint jobs can turn into something more common in EVE. Thanks for your time.

Thadd
Bertrand Butler
Cras es Noster
#674 - 2014-03-17 07:40:49 UTC
Talking about micro-transactions for a purely cosmetic feature that is also available for in-game money is dumb...at best. The AUR store is by far the best choice to run this feature on, for four reasons.

1. A lot of code has been put on it already.
2. It is de-facto the correct place for vanity/cosmetic items.
3. It is under-utilized.
4. It is already linked with the player market.

AUR can be bought with isk at a current rate of ~187000isk per AUR if you choose a 1000AUR token or a plex conversion (500AUR tokens trade for 160000isk per AUR and 100AUR tokens for 230000isk per AUR). For a single run BP for the Hyperion Aliastra Edition, you will need 350AUR. That means you will have to pay about 65mil isk for your paint-job (the same as a faction EANM for example). Thats not bad at all, especially since the hull already goes for 223mil isk...

The only problem with this procedure is that each distinct paint job is added as an additional hull in the game, and this produces a soft limit on the number of different variants you can have in the end. But the current system is also good because it gives you the opportunity to buy an already painted ship at the market. At the time of this post you will pay a 2mil premium for it, but you wont have to do any work like buying AUR via tokens/plex, buying the hull and producing the ship.

As others have said, it is possible to circumvent the additional item id problem by coding a new system with paint and decal/logo slots in the hulls. Its not as easy as it sounds though, and I really think CCP will move on it only if a pilot program like this goes well.
Droidyk
Maniacal Miners INC
#675 - 2014-03-17 10:48:37 UTC
Can't wait for the mining barges. Good to know they are coming soon as well.
Shpenat
General Defense Union
Transgress
#676 - 2014-03-18 16:09:48 UTC
Bohneik Itohn wrote:
First I need to say this: Just drop the idea that gankers are suddenly going to start going nuts over skinned ships. The increase in value a BS skin adds is very minimal in comparison to, say... The three faction ballistic controls and deadspace shield modules you keep throwing on there to make your "grinding" more "tolerable"....Roll

Another note that I think a lot of people are forgetting to point out in their haste to critique other aspects of this program.



Please don't change the name of the painted ships in the overview. It clutters our overview making it harder to parse information and make important decisions in high risk or combat situations. These ships serve exactly the same purpose in a fight as their unpainted counterparts and there is no reason to obfuscate that with unnecessary text. If this was going to change the attributes of the ship, change it's typical use or anything of that sort, changing the name of a skinned ship would be necessary and welcome. Skinning does none of these things, and therefore skinned ships don't need to be differentiated from the standard.

If I'm scouting hostiles and spot a small gang of a dozen to 15 ships I need to know the composition of the fleet immediately so that either I or the FC can make a decision immediately as to whether to engage, run, who the primaries are, etc... If that small gang is aligning towards my small gang getting ready to warp, and my overview is filled with a bunch of Suukuuvestaa this and Nugoeihuvi that.... That is an artificial barrier preventing me from getting critical information that is needed immediately. Fleet composition is 100% critical in small gang fights, and the FC needs that information immediately in many situations. If all I can get out of my overview is "What the FUUUUUU is all of this garbage in my overview, who did this crap?!" over voice chat before they warp, that's a fight that we lost because of cosmetic items.

Standard names in the overview PLEASE!


Just read the dev blog first. this is the PILOT. It is not supposed to be this way in the future if the pilot is successful. But they did want to do it without any modification to the code. And code does not allow different skins with the same ID and name.

IF this pilot succeeds they will put a programer on the job of code modification so the paint job will be something like rig or whatever. But CCP don't want to commit a programmer on thing nobody would care about.


I have just one fear about this project and it is a ship selection. Granted the frigates are generally used, however the selected battleships don't see much action in PvP. So some mission runners might buy some but will only lose them sporadically. So I expect the demand for new hulls to decline.
HC GularTog
HC Dude's Rough Riders
#677 - 2014-03-18 18:12:23 UTC
Just another pathetic ploy by CCP to again dig even deeper into everyone's pocket. This was a dumb idea 10 yrs ago when I first heard some players speaking of it, and it still is today.
People dressing their dollies in pretty clothes and now painting ships that for the most part no one will ever see ... would much rather see continued improvements and additions to the existing game and not see CCP continue to find more ways to improve their cash flow by encouraging more PLEX purchases and this silly assed Noble Exchange and AUR ...

CCP, I understand that "To err is human", but it shouldn't be the Company Motto...

Chloe Celeste
Net Effect
#678 - 2014-03-18 18:38:37 UTC
I have an idea for the Ship Painting Pilot Program of how to solve the issue of having unique records in the database tables that store ship and ship information. I don't know if this is technically feasible so keep in mind this is only an idea. However, if it is possible it may solve the issue of having to perform tons of repetitive tasks for the Devs and make our Ship Painting feature a reality.


In the matter of requiring all unique typeID as the primary key and new ship names one possible solution could be to create a new field in the current ship database as a Foreign Key with some number as it's value. That value then shares a relationship with the Primary Key of a new Table in the database that contains different color or skins for each of it's fields.

The idea is that this new database table will then store all the available colors and skins [as different fields] and the different blueprint copy for each color or skin will call upon a particular field in the unique record for each ship and be able to use the same name for the ship because it is sharing a relationship. Also, there would have to be a field or some way to refer to the color by a name, like "green" or "SoE Skin" but this can be a field next to each color field and the database call would point to at least two fields, 1) the color or skin itself, and 2) the name of the color or skin. This of course can be scaled up to include other meaningful information.


There would be no reason to create different ship names or have different names for the overview, however, the Market would introduce additional work and other issues to overcome. To make things easier to implement the Ship Painting simply do not give us the ability to sell our customized ships in the Market, at all period. Do give us the ability to trade in station and also sell on the Contract system. This puts greater use of the Contract system but would need to add an data label on the contract itself to show that the color or skin has been modded or changed from the default. My suggestion would be to use the color or skin name from the newly created database table and insert that into the details of the contract.

If the Devs wanted to generate pictures of the colors or skins after they have been applied then just make the addition in the newly created database table by extending the database call. Then grab that information and data to insert into the contract details. When new ships are added add records to the current ship database and then also this new Table. When there's more colors or skins to make available add them into the newly created Table. We're still using most of the same code and databases so the work needed to construct this should be minimal but give a tremendous amount of expandability and robust-ness for future use.

Chloe Celeste
Net Effect
#679 - 2014-03-18 19:28:11 UTC
Auk Monnan wrote:

My prediction, another set of slots to put skins in that can only be sold on contracts once applied. Except the awesome feature that players can build everything in the game is abandoned.

And the AUR thing. CCP used to be about making a great game, now it is just about making the almighty dollar (or ISK, whatever) ...

I agree and like the idea of creating a new module that could be added to the fittings screen on a ship and if removed it would be destroyed. I don't feel that would not be worthwhile and make it easy for people to apply the color or skins even if they don't want to deal with working with blueprints or blueprint copies. Believe that would be appealing to all pilots.


About the Aura (AUR) and micro-transactions, I agree with you as well about how unappealing they are and don't think any of us, including myself, want to see any micro-transactions in Eve whatsoever. The fact does reside in that you can spend your ISK for AUR to get stuff like colors and skins for your ships and as long as they are a fair price then no big deal in my opinion.

I think we all could benefit from another such service, like, ISK for Paint credits where we can spend a smaller amount of ISK and rather getting a PLEX we can get AUR credits then use that to buy our paints. For those who want to spend real money for AUR, even though I disagree people should do that, you can then purchase a smaller amount of AUR to then use for paint colors and skins for your ships that is cheaper then buying a PLEX or Game Time Code, respectively. There would not be a new currency developed but rather a new purchasing option to get AUR in both for ISK and real-money.


I know CCP is a "for profit business" and I'm all for that business model. People will still buy PLEX's and this is simply giving pilots another avenue to use AUR credits that is appealing and beneficial for us and CCP alike. CCP may make slightly less then if required all pilots to use ISK for PLEX -- however, there is such a thing as customer loyalty and in my view letting us spend less ISK for AUR to paint our ships is a step in the right direction. Even if the per unit cost is slightly less or there is slightly less profit the volume of transactions would probably increase slightly so in reality the profits should remain the same or even increase over time. I'm sure others will agree with me.


Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#680 - 2014-03-18 22:55:48 UTC
If CCP makes a firm commitment to this endeavour with a wider assortment of skins that can be applied to a hulls of a given race and includes the ability to apply these through an interface, they'll win over many converts. This includes the ability to modify not only the base ship color, but the ship lighting and effects colors as well as the primary and secondary skin colors. These needs to be achievable to existing rigged ships through a station service (and not manufacturing).

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.