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Crime & Punishment

 
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That 1300 dollar raven kill and the 1330 dolalr scam.

Author
Misunderstood Genius
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#21 - 2014-03-05 21:53:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Misunderstood Genius
There's a major problem because CCP allows to convert money into ISK by PLEX or GTC. I don't think that an EULA of a gaming developer can defy general laws that someone's money can be taken by another one in a legit way. This means we have an exeptional situation when someone is using the mechanics to convert money to ISK. I know that many people don't want to hear that new people or people not knowing much about EVE will get too much information about the mechanics or bad things what might happen to them. But in my optinion there has to be a clear warning when people transfer money into the game by PLEX or GTC that they might risk to lose this money by losing stuff like getting killed even in hi-sec or getting scammed. With PLEX and their EULA CCP allows people to steal money in this case. If there wouldn't be a method to convert money into ISK they steal your time only. What finally means for sure: no noob will fly a 60 bil ship from the beginning or within the first years if he's not a hardcore Sanctum farmer in null-sec. And this would make a huge difference because when former noobs are flying a 60 bil ship some day they should be aware about the different faces of EVE. If not. Their problem.
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#22 - 2014-03-05 22:16:22 UTC
Misunderstood Genius wrote:
There's a major problem because CCP allows to convert money into ISK by PLEX or GTC. I don't think that an EULA of a gaming developer can defy general laws that someone's money can be taken by another one in a legit way.


Well its a good think that ISK isn't money then.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.

Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#23 - 2014-03-05 22:17:31 UTC
Johan Lightstrider wrote:
We are not talking about 100 bucks here but 2600 dollars total. The isk was not created ingame but bought.
Am I alone in having mixed feelings about this because of the large amount of RL cash involved?

So he got scammed out of half a titan. Big deal.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.

Misunderstood Genius
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#24 - 2014-03-05 22:38:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Misunderstood Genius
Batelle wrote:
Misunderstood Genius wrote:
There's a major problem because CCP allows to convert money into ISK by PLEX or GTC. I don't think that an EULA of a gaming developer can defy general laws that someone's money can be taken by another one in a legit way.


Well its a good think that ISK isn't money then.


Finally it's ISK but it's a difference if the source was time for the gameplay or just money. You simply can't fly a 60 bil ship as a beginner if you have to make ISK ingame. You will learn EVE by the normal way with some hard lessons and that a 60 bil ship is totally senseless to fly for missions in hi-sec. At the end you might learn that joining a null-sec corp will open you some fast ways to make billions in a few days or weeks in a simple t2 fitted Ishtar. It doesn't matter here that it's insane to invest $2600 in a spaceship game. Fact is that CCP doesn't warn these people that they will risk their money doing it this way and inform them about the usual mechanics like getting ganked or scammed. I am pretty sure that this is an interesting case for a lawyer. Smile
Mag's
Azn Empire
#25 - 2014-03-05 22:52:21 UTC
Misunderstood Genius wrote:
I am pretty sure that this is an interesting case for a lawyer. Smile
I'm pretty sure a lawyer would laugh at someone trying to make a case out if it. Simply put, there isn't one.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.

Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#26 - 2014-03-05 23:23:52 UTC
There is always a bigger idiot.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com

Hesod Adee
Perkone
Caldari State
#27 - 2014-03-05 23:32:03 UTC
Anne Dieu-le-veut wrote:
I think this settles the question on whether or not PLEX makes EVE PTW. Clearly, that $3000 didn't let him win.

Question is if Eve is a pay to lose game or not.

Because all the stories I hear about someone buying a bunch of ISK through plexes end with it going badly for the buyer.
Loraine Gess
Confedeferate Union of Tax Legalists
#28 - 2014-03-05 23:57:28 UTC
Misunderstood Genius wrote:
Batelle wrote:
Misunderstood Genius wrote:
There's a major problem because CCP allows to convert money into ISK by PLEX or GTC. I don't think that an EULA of a gaming developer can defy general laws that someone's money can be taken by another one in a legit way.


Well its a good think that ISK isn't money then.


Finally it's ISK but it's a difference if the source was time for the gameplay or just money. You simply can't fly a 60 bil ship as a beginner if you have to make ISK ingame. You will learn EVE by the normal way with some hard lessons and that a 60 bil ship is totally senseless to fly for missions in hi-sec. At the end you might learn that joining a null-sec corp will open you some fast ways to make billions in a few days or weeks in a simple t2 fitted Ishtar. It doesn't matter here that it's insane to invest $2600 in a spaceship game. Fact is that CCP doesn't warn these people that they will risk their money doing it this way and inform them about the usual mechanics like getting ganked or scammed. I am pretty sure that this is an interesting case for a lawyer. Smile



Yes they do. Full legal disclosure is present in the EULA. Not their fault if you accept it without reading.
Erotica 1
Krypteia Operations
#29 - 2014-03-05 23:59:33 UTC
Hesod Adee wrote:
Anne Dieu-le-veut wrote:
I think this settles the question on whether or not PLEX makes EVE PTW. Clearly, that $3000 didn't let him win.

Question is if Eve is a pay to lose game or not.

Because all the stories I hear about someone buying a bunch of ISK through plexes end with it going badly for the buyer.


There are many people who have not lost these ships yet, just flying around afk and such. It's sickening, I know. That's why we need your help in making highsec a better place.

See Bio for isk doubling rules. If you didn't read bio, chances are you funded those who did.

Misunderstood Genius
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#30 - 2014-03-06 00:52:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Misunderstood Genius
Loraine Gess wrote:
Misunderstood Genius wrote:
Batelle wrote:
Misunderstood Genius wrote:
There's a major problem because CCP allows to convert money into ISK by PLEX or GTC. I don't think that an EULA of a gaming developer can defy general laws that someone's money can be taken by another one in a legit way.


Well its a good think that ISK isn't money then.


Finally it's ISK but it's a difference if the source was time for the gameplay or just money. You simply can't fly a 60 bil ship as a beginner if you have to make ISK ingame. You will learn EVE by the normal way with some hard lessons and that a 60 bil ship is totally senseless to fly for missions in hi-sec. At the end you might learn that joining a null-sec corp will open you some fast ways to make billions in a few days or weeks in a simple t2 fitted Ishtar. It doesn't matter here that it's insane to invest $2600 in a spaceship game. Fact is that CCP doesn't warn these people that they will risk their money doing it this way and inform them about the usual mechanics like getting ganked or scammed. I am pretty sure that this is an interesting case for a lawyer. Smile



Yes they do. Full legal disclosure is present in the EULA. Not their fault if you accept it without reading.


Really? Can't find it. Can you please show us where this is exactly mentioned? Accepting the EULA is one thing. But it doesn't mean that CCP's EULA doesn't breach the laws of my country.
Erotica 1
Krypteia Operations
#31 - 2014-03-06 01:13:30 UTC
If that was true, they would just exclude your small island nation from eligibility to play surely.

See Bio for isk doubling rules. If you didn't read bio, chances are you funded those who did.

Loraine Gess
Confedeferate Union of Tax Legalists
#32 - 2014-03-06 01:24:59 UTC
Misunderstood Genius wrote:
Loraine Gess wrote:
Misunderstood Genius wrote:
Batelle wrote:
Misunderstood Genius wrote:
There's a major problem because CCP allows to convert money into ISK by PLEX or GTC. I don't think that an EULA of a gaming developer can defy general laws that someone's money can be taken by another one in a legit way.


Well its a good think that ISK isn't money then.


Finally it's ISK but it's a difference if the source was time for the gameplay or just money. You simply can't fly a 60 bil ship as a beginner if you have to make ISK ingame. You will learn EVE by the normal way with some hard lessons and that a 60 bil ship is totally senseless to fly for missions in hi-sec. At the end you might learn that joining a null-sec corp will open you some fast ways to make billions in a few days or weeks in a simple t2 fitted Ishtar. It doesn't matter here that it's insane to invest $2600 in a spaceship game. Fact is that CCP doesn't warn these people that they will risk their money doing it this way and inform them about the usual mechanics like getting ganked or scammed. I am pretty sure that this is an interesting case for a lawyer. Smile



Yes they do. Full legal disclosure is present in the EULA. Not their fault if you accept it without reading.


Really? Can't find it. Can you please show us where this is exactly mentioned? Accepting the EULA is one thing. But it doesn't mean that CCP's EULA doesn't breach the laws of my country.





Do the laws of your country allow you to sign contracts? Yes?



Show me on the doll where the law touched you...
Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#33 - 2014-03-06 02:04:52 UTC
Misunderstood Genius wrote:
Loraine Gess wrote:
Misunderstood Genius wrote:
Batelle wrote:
Misunderstood Genius wrote:
There's a major problem because CCP allows to convert money into ISK by PLEX or GTC. I don't think that an EULA of a gaming developer can defy general laws that someone's money can be taken by another one in a legit way.


Well its a good think that ISK isn't money then.


Finally it's ISK but it's a difference if the source was time for the gameplay or just money. You simply can't fly a 60 bil ship as a beginner if you have to make ISK ingame. You will learn EVE by the normal way with some hard lessons and that a 60 bil ship is totally senseless to fly for missions in hi-sec. At the end you might learn that joining a null-sec corp will open you some fast ways to make billions in a few days or weeks in a simple t2 fitted Ishtar. It doesn't matter here that it's insane to invest $2600 in a spaceship game. Fact is that CCP doesn't warn these people that they will risk their money doing it this way and inform them about the usual mechanics like getting ganked or scammed. I am pretty sure that this is an interesting case for a lawyer. Smile



Yes they do. Full legal disclosure is present in the EULA. Not their fault if you accept it without reading.


Really? Can't find it. Can you please show us where this is exactly mentioned? Accepting the EULA is one thing. But it doesn't mean that CCP's EULA doesn't breach the laws of my country.
I'll try to make this as easy as possible.

Crazy dude decides to spend 3,000$ for a few pixels on a screen. RL and its laws end exactly here: CCP offered him pixels, he paid and got the pixels.

He didn't RISK his money in any way. He SPENT his money. His money is now gone FOREVER, because re-converting pixels back to $ is not allowed.


Later, his pixels interacted with other pixels in a game called EVE. They did exactly what they were supposed to do.

If his pixels had failed to properly interact with other pixels, he could have asked for a reimbursment I guess.

But they sure did interact, right? Big smile

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!

ZAKURELL0 LINDA
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#34 - 2014-03-06 02:38:35 UTC
pretty sure im not the only one who added this guy into watchlist, ready for a 3rd round pinata bash Roll

RIP Iron Lady

Lady Areola Fappington
#35 - 2014-03-06 02:57:21 UTC
Misunderstood Genius wrote:

Really? Can't find it. Can you please show us where this is exactly mentioned? Accepting the EULA is one thing. But it doesn't mean that CCP's EULA doesn't breach the laws of my country.



In no event shall CCP, its affiliates, licensors or suppliers be liable to you or to any third party for any special, indirect, incidental, consequential, punitive or exemplary damages (including without limitation, lost profits or lost data), arising out of or in connection with your Account, the System, Software, Game, Game Content, User Content, EULA, or any other services or materials provided in connection therewith, whether based on warranty, contract, tort or any other legal theory, and whether or not CCP is advised of the possibility of such damages, and even if any stated remedy fails of its essential purpose.

That, and:

You shall defend, indemnify and hold harmless CCP and its affiliates, licensors and suppliers, and their respective employees, contractors, officers and directors, from any and all claims, loss, damages and demands, including reasonable attorneys' fees, arising out of: (i) your use or misuse of the Software; (ii) your access to the System; (iii) any activities conducted through your Account (whether by you or another person); and (iv) your playing of the Game.

7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided. --Eve New Player Guide

Bruce Kemp
Best Kept Dunked
#36 - 2014-03-06 04:56:02 UTC
Jimblidge > I come from WOW, that is a well-balanced game, not this.

Explains it all. Lol
Graabeerd Khagah
MoonFyre BattleGroup Holdings
#37 - 2014-03-06 05:02:21 UTC
For anybody who is insane enough to spend that kind of RL cash on a game ought to be shot. I don't care if this guy who claims to be a lawyer even knew what this community all about. Certainly his grammar and sentence structure told me right away what kind of education he has and it's shows in the transcripts.

But HOW in the name of the Empress did this person get into the situation he gotten into?? Did he buy from the Character Bazaar and proceeded to get in the game or what was he trying to cover up something that he doesn't want to reveal about why he did what he did?? I am almost certain from telling about his conduct he's very much a question mark in my system and even mentioning he came from WoW makes it more interesting. And then to be scammed by of all people, somebody from the GSF.

Gotta love those delicious tears!!Pirate
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#38 - 2014-03-06 06:34:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Misunderstood Genius wrote:
There's a major problem because CCP allows to convert money into ISK by PLEX or GTC. I don't think that an EULA of a gaming developer can defy general laws that someone's money can be taken by another one in a legit way.
He gave his $3000+ to CCP in return for presumably PLEX, the moment he did so is the moment at which the money ceased to be his. He spent his money on temporary, virtual goods; ones, that while having an equivalent monetary real world value, have no actual real world value; because you can't resell them for real world cash without breaching the EULA or ToS.

TL;DR He bought an internet spaceships sandwich, and then ate it.

Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:
"Hello, my name is Aura... these the least of your problems."

EvE is a cold, dark place. At it's core, life in EvE is difficult, hard and in direct competition to other capsuleers.

Survival is not assured.

The CONCORD space police will not protect your ships from being destroyed, even in high security space...they will just kill your aggressor in retribution.

Trade hubs are filled with the most duplicitous characters imaginable, waiting to cheat you out of your assets if you let them.

Pirates slip stealthily through even the regions of hisec, trying to trick industrialists into entering combat with them for the purpose of killing them and stealing their assets.

Spies will try to infiltrate capsuleer corporations, for the express purpose of stealing assets, or even attacking other corpmates in hisec without CONCORD intervention.

Some corporations will even recruit new members, just to steal from and kill them.

Fixed your blog post for you.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#39 - 2014-03-06 06:40:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
double post

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Johan Lightstrider
Antwerpse Kerels
#40 - 2014-03-06 07:37:31 UTC
Nice discussion going here. This is so very unlike the scum that frequent this dark damp corner of the station.

In my country the government limited the amount of lottery tickets a person could buy to 250 euros a day. To protect idiots from themselfs.

Anyway love that aura thingy 'that is the least of your problems'