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Rig help: Warhead Rigor Catalyst VS Warhead Flare Catalyst
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RAVENSOME
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2014-03-01 18:24:24 UTC  |  Edited by: RAVENSOME
Hello,
I have to choose one of the following rig:

Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst
This ship modification is designed to decrease the signature radius factor for missile explosions at the expense of increased CPU requirements for launchers.

Large Warhead Flare Catalyst
This ship modification is designed to decrease the effect of a target's velocity in avoiding the radius of missile explosions at the expense of increased CPU requirements for launchers

It is for a PVE ship which mounts Cruise Missile and runs LVL4 only

Could you please give me your advice and an explanation why one is better than the other?

Thank you
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#2 - 2014-03-01 18:58:57 UTC
In the missile damage calculation explosion radius is a bigger factor than explosion velocity, as such you'll always want more rigors than flares. Exceptions do exist if you also bring a painter or two but realistically, outside a Golem, that just doesn't/shouldn't happen much.

If you fit T1 rigs then you have 2 options; 3 rigors or 2 rigors+ 1 flare, both give just about equal performance in the majority of cases and you can't really do it wrong there, if you fit option A people will tell you you should have gone for B and vice versa. Personally I'd go for 3 x rigors.

If you fit T2 rigs you're forced into 2 rigor+ 1 flare due to calibration.
RAVENSOME
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2014-03-01 19:04:54 UTC
Gregor Parud wrote:
In the missile damage calculation explosion radius is a bigger factor than explosion velocity, as such you'll always want more rigors than flares. Exceptions do exist if you also bring a painter or two but realistically, outside a Golem, that just doesn't/shouldn't happen much.

If you fit T1 rigs then you have 2 options; 3 rigors or 2 rigors+ 1 flare, both give just about equal performance in the majority of cases and you can't really do it wrong there, if you fit option A people will tell you you should have gone for B and vice versa. Personally I'd go for 3 x rigors.

If you fit T2 rigs you're forced into 2 rigor+ 1 flare due to calibration.


Thank you for your post. One more question, I have room for just one Rig, and I will use cruise missiles just for BS.
Don't you think velocity should be improved as the BS have a large radius?

tks
Damien White
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#4 - 2014-03-01 19:07:04 UTC
Well, you then answered the question for yourself...


But are you realy only shooting at BS?

97% of girls would die if Justin Bieber were about to jump off a cliff. Post this in your sig if you`re part of the 3% yelling,

"DO A BARREL ROLL!"
RAVENSOME
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2014-03-01 19:09:58 UTC
Damien White wrote:
Well, you then answered the question for yourself...


But are you realy only shooting at BS?



Sure, with drones frigates and cruises are insta-pop, BC might take few shoots more, BS take longer and that's why i need missiles. From your post seems you agree on velocity btw
Damien White
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#6 - 2014-03-01 19:13:30 UTC
Instapop?

Flying a Rattlesnake?


Maybe some drone Rigs would be better than some Missile rigs?

97% of girls would die if Justin Bieber were about to jump off a cliff. Post this in your sig if you`re part of the 3% yelling,

"DO A BARREL ROLL!"
RAVENSOME
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2014-03-01 19:15:09 UTC
Damien White wrote:
Instapop?

Flying a Rattlesnake?


Maybe some drone Rigs would be better than some Missile rigs?


Sigh....

That's why I have just one rig for missiles.... 1 for tank, 1 for sentry, 1 for missiles......
Damien White
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#8 - 2014-03-01 19:18:12 UTC
I know but against BS both rigs are kind of useless, they are primarly designed to improve combat against smaller ships.

So the question is if there is a Rig improving your drones even further thus increasing the overal performance of your fitting.


A Drone Scope Chip for example would propably result in greater effective DPS than you could get by using the missile rigs.

97% of girls would die if Justin Bieber were about to jump off a cliff. Post this in your sig if you`re part of the 3% yelling,

"DO A BARREL ROLL!"
stoicfaux
#9 - 2014-03-02 01:46:11 UTC
3x Rigor I or 2x Rigor II + Flare II.



Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Sir Constantin
#10 - 2014-03-03 16:37:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Sir Constantin
From my experience 3 x Rigors are always better:


Check this:

Smaller signature, higher speed (Cruiser, BC..)

2xRigor II + 1xRigor I - Ship Signature: 240m Speed: 300m/s = ~463dps
http://imageshack.com/a/img24/9397/3oej.png
2xRigor II + 1xFlare I - Ship Signature: 240m Speed: 300m/s = ~453dps
http://imageshack.com/a/img844/5411/uves.png


Bigger signature, smaller speed (BC, BS..)

2xRigor II + 1xRigor I - Ship Signature: 350m Speed: 250m/s = ~769dps
http://imageshack.com/a/img854/3930/c3sv.png
2xRigor II + 1xFlare I - Ship Signature: 350m Speed: 250m/s = ~754dps
http://imageshack.com/a/img713/5076/p7vw.png
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#11 - 2014-03-03 16:43:57 UTC
i use no application rigs and just precision/t1 cruise on my rattlesnake (it still gets 100km with precision). Fury missiles without application suffer moderate reduction against even battleships.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Soldarius
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#12 - 2014-03-03 17:06:26 UTC
Due to the missile damage formula choosing only 1 reduction at a time, and because sigRad/ExpVel is also considered when calculating the reduction due to speed, Rigor rigs are always preferred.

A small ship will always get a reduction even sitting still. A fast ship only gets a reduction when it is going fast. Typically, frigate rats don't orbit very fast, and they can be webbed.

http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
unidenify
Deaf Armada
#13 - 2014-03-03 17:36:40 UTC  |  Edited by: unidenify
Soldarius wrote:
Due to the missile damage formula choosing only 1 reduction at a time, and because sigRad/ExpVel is also considered when calculating the reduction due to speed, Rigor rigs are always preferred.

A small ship will always get a reduction even sitting still. A fast ship only gets a reduction when it is going fast. Typically, frigate rats don't orbit very fast, and they can be webbed.


sometime I find that post chart would be simple

http://o.smium.org/compare/dps/s,0,http%3A%2F%2Fo.smium.org%2Fnew%2F1487694474250289152%23browse%2Cmodules,No%20Rigor%2FFlare/s,1,http%3A%2F%2Fo.smium.org%2Fnew%2F2246378370956787712%23browse%2Cmodules,2x%20Rigor/s,2,http%3A%2F%2Fo.smium.org%2Fnew%2F7498143906672934912%23browse%2Cmodules,2x%20Flare/s,3,http%3A%2F%2Fo.smium.org%2Fnew%2F5538569703552712704%23browse%2Cmodules,Rigor%2FFlare/x,tv,,/td,20/tsr,150

yea long link to OSMIUM fitting
RAVENSOME
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2014-03-03 19:42:44 UTC
+1 to all the ones who helped me to find the answer.
I made some tests on EveHQ (found the way to check ammo DPS just today) to see the damage according to the Rig fitting and some of you were absolutely right, Rigor is the winner.

A special thank to Gregor Parud (your statement was right), Sir Constantin (you gave me the idea of checking the ammo DPS) and unidenify (your last post gave me the last confirmation).
unidenify
Deaf Armada
#15 - 2014-03-03 20:47:32 UTC
No problem