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A Legion or Proteus for C3 sites?
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The Tall Order 2
Jennes Cressen The Tall Order Likes received: 2	#21 - 2014-03-07 17:40:05 UTC Bird Flu Vulnero wrote: If you dont mind bringing in a salvager you can get a rail proteus that does more dps than a legion at better range with a better tank. Do you have an idea for a solid rail proteus fit that might do this?

Batelle

Federal Navy Academy

Likes received: 2,629

#22 - 2014-03-07 17:48:03 UTC

Talon Kane wrote:

I'm clearing C3 sites solo in my 1.3b legion and I would never trade it for an ugly and low dps tengu :)
I'm doing 700 dps in close range and near 500 in long range (40km). I can clear any normal combat sites.

A "low dps tengu" beats those numbers pretty soundly. If you spend 1.3bn on the tengu, then even more so.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.

Chocobo Industries 2
Mykal Day Chocobo Industries Likes received: 2	#23 - 2014-03-08 20:40:30 UTC \| Edited by: Mykal Day Anyone mind posting their legion/loki fit for this? I'm moving to a c3 shortly and trying to sort out what I want to fly. I have nearly perfect shield and armor tanking skills however I'm a couple weeks from t2 med lasers and I have both med projectile specs to 4. Trying to decide if I want to train for a Legion.

Xequecal

Ministry of War

Amarr Empire

Likes received: 361

#24 - 2014-03-08 21:36:04 UTC

[New Setup 2]
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Power Diagnostic System II

10MN Afterburner II
Pithum C-Type Medium Shield Booster
Large Capacitor Battery II
Thermic Dissipation Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II

425mm AutoCannon II,Barrage M
425mm AutoCannon II,Barrage M
425mm AutoCannon II,Barrage M
425mm AutoCannon II,Barrage M
425mm AutoCannon II,Barrage M
425mm AutoCannon II,Barrage M
Expanded Probe Launcher II,Core Scanner Probe I

Medium Projectile Burst Aerator II
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I

Loki Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst
Loki Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir
Loki Defensive - Adaptive Shielding
Loki Offensive - Projectile Scoping Array
Loki Electronics - Emergent Locus Analyzer

Drones_Active=Hobgoblin II,5

600 DPS tank. Does more DPS with Barrage than any realistic C3 Legion can do with faction Multifreq. Swats sleeper frigates in seconds and gives you the option to fly right up to the battleships and use Hail for >800 DPS. Note that this requires either AWU V or a PG implant to fit.

Tul Breetai

Impromptu Asset Requisition

Likes received: 744

#25 - 2014-03-08 23:45:31 UTC

Xequecal wrote:

But... it's shiiiield... Ugh

There's nothing worse than an EVE player, generally considered to be top of the food chain in the MMO world, that cannot smacktalk with wit and coherency.


Xequecal Ministry of War Amarr Empire Likes received: 361	#26 - 2014-03-09 12:53:14 UTC Armor loki needs to drop down to 5 guns or lose the probe launcher, since you cant get 7 highs on an armor fit.


Mykal Day Chocobo Industries Likes received: 2	#27 - 2014-03-10 23:07:12 UTC \| Edited by: Mykal Day Do you use that Loki for C3 Solar Cell's? I was under the impression they have ~700 dps and the last wave is mostly Kin/Exp. Also anyone have a legion fit they run c3's with? There seems to be distinct lack of solid legion builds floating around the interwebs.

Angel Rufus

State War Academy

Caldari State

Likes received: 17

#28 - 2014-03-11 06:33:01 UTC

Xequecal wrote:

So far I have solo experience only from C2's (mostly passive tanked hurricane and a bit with drake on an alt). This fit looks nice. I have a bit similar Loki fitted that I was thinking to test in a WH. It has a tad more em/them tank, double the kin/exp tank, 55% more falloff, same speed/sig, but only 77% of the gun dps. So a few questions for the more seasoned WH dwellers, If I may:
- I take it that you can mostly avoid the kin/exp missile damage by moving?
- Can this ship do all C3 sites with the kin/exp weakness (only 207 tank against those)?
- As you have active tank, wont' the sleepers suck you dry?
- Falloff is always the question that comes to my mind with projectiles. How much sleeper-hugging will you be doing? would investing into falloff with the expense of dps pay off?

Xequecal

Ministry of War

Amarr Empire

Likes received: 361

#29 - 2014-03-11 07:21:31 UTC | Edited by: Xequecal

Mykal Day wrote:

Do you use that Loki for C3 Solar Cell's? I was under the impression they have ~700 dps and the last wave is mostly Kin/Exp.

Also anyone have a legion fit they run c3's with? There seems to be distinct lack of solid legion builds floating around the interwebs.

Kin/exp resists are unimportant because sleeper BSes do the vast majority of the incoming dps in c3 sites, and your t3 effectively SIG tanks their missiles even when webbed.

Also, if you make a piloting error you can eat a bunch of EM/Therm wrecking shots even if not webbed. If you are in motion it does not matter how stupid you're flying, anything above 300 m/sec and the missiles do nothing. Even when webbed to a standstill they still do less than half damage, and they can't wreck either so no losing 75% of your tank in one volley due to bad luck.

Legion flat out sucks for c3 due to low DPS and the wrong t2 resists. Your t2 kin/exp racial resists are worthless in c3 sites due to the factors I just mentioned, and your DPS sucks. You're forced to run an armor tank which conflicts with damage mods, and you max out on 6 double bonused guns for DPS. Tengu has six triple bonused launchers for DPS and runs shield tank so you can max out on damage mods. Proteus and Loki can have six double bonused guns PLUS drones. That's not to say you can't run c3s in a Legion, but it is by far the worst choice. It is only used by super-paranoid people that insist on using t2 mods only. Its hard to get a 6 ham Tengu's tank up to an acceptable level with zero faction mods.

Best c3 legion involves the drone subsystem and neutron blasters, that at least has slightly less ****** DPS and let's you fit tractor/salvager to loot sites while running them to save time. That's how bad it is, you need to use the craptacular drone subsystem.

A navy omen is better for running c3s than a legion. The legion is just that bad.

Keith Planck

Hi-Sec Huggers

Likes received: 975

#30 - 2014-03-13 05:20:10 UTC

Xequecal wrote:

Drone Proteus vastly outperforms Legion, it's not even close. You won't lose drones if you know how Sleeper aggro works on drones.

I honestly cringe whenever I see people suggest 5 HPL II or HML Legions for running C3s. Yeah, that works, if you enjoy being bored to death spending >5 minutes on every sleeper battleship, and making less ISK/hour then nullsec anoms.

[New Setup 1]
Medium Armor Repairer II
Medium Ancillary Armor Repairer,Nanite Repair Paste
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Armor EM Hardener II
Capacitor Power Relay II

Shadow Serpentis 100MN Afterburner
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II

Heavy Ion Blaster II,Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Ion Blaster II,Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Ion Blaster II,Antimatter Charge M
Expanded Probe Launcher II,Core Scanner Probe I
Salvager II
Small Tractor Beam II

Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II
Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump II
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I

Proteus Defensive - Nanobot Injector
Proteus Electronics - Emergent Locus Analyzer
Proteus Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir
Proteus Offensive - Drone Synthesis Projector
Proteus Propulsion - Localized Injectors

Drones_Active=Ogre II,4
Drones_Inactive=Hobgoblin II,15
Drones_Inactive=Hammerhead II,5

This is heavily overtanked, does more DPS than the Pulse Legion even with the blasters turned off, has a probe launcher fitted to keep watch over the wormhole, and even gives you the option of tractoring/salvaging the site while you're running it so you don't even have to deploy a MTU that could quickly be scanned down. You also have 100mn AB to give you the best chance of getting away from a tackler that you missed.

Ogres will not take sleeper aggro if only battleships are still alive, Hammerheads will not take aggro if only BSes and cruisers are still alive. You will occasionally lose a hobgoblin while killing the sleeper frigs, but if you're willing to slowly kill the frigs with your blasters before deploying drones you can even avoid this.

After first seeing it, I thought it was a troll.

Tested it on sisi tonight, can do 3 of the 4 sites (can't do outpost)

Was PAINFULLY slow though, having the ogres run round, having to swap out drones, ect... It was a real pain. Better then legions and tengus? Maybe, but there are better options for c3s tbh.

Also tried this with a Stratios and Ishtar on sisi, both worked perfectly well with similar fits.

♞

Lyra Jedran

State War Academy

Caldari State

Likes received: 15

#31 - 2014-03-13 05:51:10 UTC

[Legion, C3]
Medium Armor Repairer II
Medium Armor Repairer II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Thermic Membrane II
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink

Large Capacitor Battery II
Federation Navy 10MN Afterburner
Federation Navy Stasis Webifier
Cap Recharger II

Heavy Pulse Laser II, Conflagration M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Conflagration M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Conflagration M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Conflagration M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Conflagration M

Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump II
Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump II
Medium Anti-EM Pump II

Legion Defensive - Nanobot Injector
Legion Electronics - Tactical Targeting Network
Legion Engineering - Capacitor Regeneration Matrix
Legion Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst
Legion Offensive - Liquid Crystal Magnifiers

Can run all C3 anomalies and have personally soloed quarantine relic (easy) and two data sites (double upholder one requires a few warp outs until u get on top of them). 3 of them with a booster can run C4 sites except for the hardest one. Current ingame cost about 750 mln. You don't have to have the Fed navy AB or imperial HS (adds dps though) but u do need the fed navy. Usually the 2nd repper is only used for the hardest waves till webbing frigs are down so you dont have to be cap stable and u can even switch out the cap recharger for a tracking computer for the most part. Also has a great tank if you are jumped and I have tanked a small gang of t1 cruisers and battlecruisers but if they bring a neuting ship you are screwed. With decent skills and 5 % MET (which costs 20 mln) nad 3 % surgical strike you get around 657 dps with conflag and 470 with scorch. Can run 4 fortifications an hour which comes to at least 120 mln (usually more) so beats most VG inc fleets but I don't know about null ratting.

Xequecal

Ministry of War

Amarr Empire

Likes received: 361

#32 - 2014-03-13 05:58:52 UTC

Keith Planck wrote:

Compared to a HAM tengu? Yeah, its painfully slow. Compared to a 5 gun Legion? Its blazingly fast.

You can fit railguns on it too if you want to increase DPS at range and it honestly cuts completion times a lot, but that means you need a supply of drones because if you use hobs on frigs they will eventually get shot.

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Wormholes

The Tall Order

Federal Navy Academy

Chocobo Industries

Ministry of War

Amarr Empire

Impromptu Asset Requisition

State War Academy

Caldari State

Hi-Sec Huggers

State War Academy

Caldari State