Player Features and Ideas Discussion

simply because you havent seen any better idea your idea isnt better its human nature to think your own idea is better

also there are multiboxers in the range from 4-10 accounts that like the challange and able to plex them is already
challanging enough its easy to plex them in 0.0 space with rorqual boost etc in empire space its alot more challanging
with ore mining and the summer changes do the rest ccp did many changes to help the miner income since this profession didnt have enough income also changes to promote active gameplay and nerfes for afk gameplay

or why do you think is drone loot gone and normal loot nerfed + the reproccesing changes in the summer expansion
miners are one of the profesions where the income is sole decitet by the market nothing else

While we are all talking about botting and how bad mining is etc, how about the afk ishtars in null plexing with drones on agressive.
As an incursion runner i can tell you a few things about the isk we make :
Its requires more effort than using AFK ishtars or sitting in bluesec (read sov nullsec) using a carrier and getting 220m isk/hour ticks.
Incursion runners also despite being in highsec actually risk alot.
We use multi billion isk ships to scrape site times down by a few seconds, we come under threat from 10-20man tornado isboxed fleets and can be instantly destroyed.
In highsec you cant touch the tornado's until they fire.

Now about the hordes of Concord LP we get :
7k lp from a standard HQ site. (the highest isk/hour incursion type)
What does this LP do? we use it again to lower the site times as much as possible through upgrades including but not limited to:
+6% implants which cost 250million isk + 250k LP. Hows that for isk sink? pilots are expected to have a full set of these.
I do love hearing how incursion runners are the problem with all this isk while the bots sit out in null AFK getting the same isk or more.
Our isk goes to upgrading our items through LP like implants and the ships (which can instantly be lost and are lost regularly)

Is nullsec really that much more risk then highsec?
Nullsec you can identify a baddie instantly in local. no standings? they want to kill you.
Nullsec you can cyno jam a system,you can bubble gates to slow intruders down also.
You have multiple neighbours keeping an eye out for you,and you are spoonfed isk not because its the hardest place in eve (that would be wormholes,where a cyno wont save you.)
Its that it gets the most press.

Highsec even if we identify the enemy we either get shutdown because we cant do what we usually do and they cant be shot.
Or we keep running and take the gank and try to survive.
In highsec you never truely know who your enemy is until its already to late.

Less risk? Its by far easier to grief someone in highsec than it is anywhere else.
And the point about the fits vs ship is Yes we make good isk/hour but NO its not some safety zone where rainbows protect you from bad things.

Most of the isk is from the hardeners funnily enough sold from the space that these AFK ishtars work best at.
Risk doesnt mean gank, it means anything can happen.
Just like miner bumping...Notice how it doesnt happen anywhere other then highsec? its not this super safe place. the risk vs reward is there and watching multiple threads over time about nerfing highsec and nerfing highsec mining when the real income lies elsewhere.
Miners are lucky if they make pennies on the dollar.
While they are trying to do ^ they are the most hated/trolled/griefed bunch of people in game bar none,they make 18 million isk per hour if given boosts and in a hulk + have a dedicated hauler ( slighty more if they actually time their cycles)
So sure nerf highsec mining. Right after you nerf the nullsec ratters who make 10x the isk in a less risky environment.
Assuming they lost their ship who does it take longer to replace it using hours of their pref farming method? the 200m ishtar +50m fit who makes 100-200m an hour depending on how afk they are or the hulk pilot in the 200m isk exhumer with at max 20k ehp who takes 14hours to replace it ( who also has to be at the keyboard for when the asteroid depletes so no more then 6mins afk)

Tell us again why mining in highsec is a huge isk faucet and needs to be nerfed. especially considering what you mine gets traded for isk, isk doesnt just appear like it does ratting. hell even incursions give you LP that you lose isk to npc's to use.

*edit*
Also try flying incursions in a T1 hull without faction or deadspace hardeners, ill wait as if you do a headquarters site it wont take long for you to come back here with the results of 16,000 applied dps with neuts stronger then a bhaal+ webs+TP's+jams

Also how about supercapital/titan industrialists? speaking of nerfing how's there income? assuming in nullsec an agreement (sort of like the one between PL and goons) and they are able to build a titan...Whats the profit on that? ill save you the time its roughly 40million isk per hour.
Think about that for a minute....40 million isk per hour on a erebus titan that you put in the oven and come back in 6weeks 5days later.
Oh its also risky right? with the agreements+ the bluesec its become the only hard part is getting the materials to the CSAA which isn't to hard when you use a JF with 425mm's in it to reprocess. its a 90% profit margin @ 40million isk per hour. but its the miners at 20million isk per hour thats broken and needs fixing.

Bigger the fleet present the bigger the Rat resistance that spawns, sounds good to me..

Maybe the rats should be seen to be competing for the ore..........

right.

plus IF neither bot nor player could make money mining, no one would mine, and the supply would disappear. this would cause prices to skyrocket, then bots would be back in a flash.

I love that expression.
I think it salutes the attitude we share that would seem crazy in most other places.

Now we are getting a bit zen, however. As you probably know, paranoia is not defined by a belief that others are out to get you, but a more specific thing indeed.
It is considered paranoia if you are wrong, and you are actually not being targeted by the forces you expect.

Nobody, by that definition, can be considered paranoid in EVE. We most definitely are out to get each other.

If you are going to suggest AFK play as important to an MMO, we may be better off simply automating the experience.

In the same manner as we get skill points, we can lay claim to some form of automated mining process.

Now, I am not saying this should vanish from the game mining itself. Just the somnolent AFK part.

Unlike skillpoint generation, I would allow for some form of effort based enhancement such as use of mining skills or defense of mining equipment itself from hostile intervention.
(Either micro managing or defending as alternate paths to higher yields)

Not too sure at the moment how that would work out, but between sov null evasion tactics and AFK play, I don't see it as risking a lot either.

I think there has to be a means to fun and action filled version of mining comparable to combat efforts.

Except we already have competition as shown by systems being empty several hours after downtime. So what you are proposing would also either kill the economy, or hand the null lords the keys to the kingdom and leave anyone but Sov null forever under their heels.

That is a perspective that I don't often bother to write in a post but I always mean it, and it is always important. Thanks.

Which is an excellent point. But sadly mining has been a mostly to almost always AFK experience to those who mine. CCP even acknowledges it in their mining barge thread as to their reason procurers and skiffs are getting drone buffed - it is boring as heck to protect a mining fleet.

So... CCP should walk the line and create a new deployable structure that can mine automatically. Something along the lines of a mobile tractor unit but with the mining equivalent of two unbonused mining II lasers. Drop it, warp off, check it in an hour or as you make passes through belts ratting, and pick it up when full or move it to a new location.