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[Rubicon 1.3] T1 Frigate and Cruiser Balance Pass

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Jason Itiner
Harmless People
#41 - 2014-02-26 13:04:36 UTC
TrouserDeagle wrote:
Jason Itiner wrote:
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
This will do nothing to help the punisher, its still going to be utter garbage.

The rifter will be a bit better... Could you also make it possible to fit arties on T1 frigates? The fitting differential between small arties and small AC's is batshit insane.

One big flaw with both these ships is that utility highs are about as useful as half a extra midslot/lowslot.. so they effectively have less slots than the ones that don't have ****** utility highs.


I tested a Punisher fitted purely for neuts in PVP once. It worked, but our 3-man gang wasn't enough to capitalize on that against two opponents. We agreed that if it were a 3-1 or a 4-2 (another neuting Punisher), it would have been quite an effective little bugger.


a neuting punisher is EVEN WORSE than a neuting tristan.


It was a theoretical fit's trial by fire. It worked out better than we anticipated: we got the kill, but the second guy drove us off (we survived, though).
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#42 - 2014-02-26 13:06:19 UTC
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
And yet I've used it to kill Firetails, Slashers, Tristans, incursi...


I, also, enjoy killing noobs.
Lidia Caderu
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
#43 - 2014-02-26 13:10:58 UTC
How about to remove single drone from Incursus and make its characteristics better?
Sway M4G
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#44 - 2014-02-26 13:12:57 UTC
same with the tormentor.
l0rd carlos
the king asked me to guard the mountain
#45 - 2014-02-26 13:14:16 UTC
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
This will do nothing to help the punisher, its still going to be utter garbage.

The rifter will be a bit better... Could you also make it possible to fit arties on T1 frigates? The fitting differential between small arties and small AC's is batshit insane.
.

Eh, I sometime fly an arty rifter. It allready works great.
What is you problem?

Youtube Channel about Micro and Small scale PvP with commentary: Fleet Commentary by l0rd carlos
Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#46 - 2014-02-26 13:15:02 UTC
Tormentor has two drones and is one of the best scram range kiters out there.
Lidia Caderu
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
#47 - 2014-02-26 13:17:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Lidia Caderu
You can remove 1 drone from Tristan, make dronehold smaller, it will have 20/30 for drones and give it one MORE mid-slot and a missile launcher at hi.

Bonuses also might be changed a bit

It may have bonus to damage instead or both bonuses to drones.
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#48 - 2014-02-26 13:18:21 UTC
There is reason to fly a rifter again )))
Nick Starkey
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#49 - 2014-02-26 13:39:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Nick Starkey
The Rifter change was nice. The current Rifter right now is too redundant to its Slasher brother and hopefully can now put full use of scram kiting witouth resorting to Barrage. Punisher might need some more help, though. It's really hard to make brawling frigates with only 2 mid slots work. Perhaps some kind of neut bonus range would make sense? The ship is already very sturdy and could be really useful in small gangs by neuting from a long range, since it's still going to have troubles keeping with targets.

I've made a signature. I hope you're enjoying it. www.evetrademaster.com - web based asset manager & profit tracker
Deerin
East Trading Co Ltd
#50 - 2014-02-26 13:47:01 UTC
Michael Harari wrote:
There is reason to fly a rifter again )))


This.

...and thank you for +2pg on Breacher. It will help LML fits a lot.
ArmyOfMe
Stay Frosty.
A Band Apart.
#51 - 2014-02-26 14:13:28 UTC
BlasterMoa is finally a go =)

GM Guard > I must ask you not to use the petition option like this again but i personally would finish the chicken sandwich first so it won´t go to waste. The spaghetti will keep and you can use it the next time you get hungry. Best regards.
Jaro Essa
Dahkur Forge
#52 - 2014-02-26 14:20:33 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:

VEXOR:
-10 m/s velocity
+0.03 inertia
-210000 mass

This seems like a bit of a double whammy, a very slight nerf to gank-focused blaster fits coupled with a slight nerf to 1600mm plate fits. Very small nerfs, but still. Is the intention to increase the differentiation between the Vexor and the Thorax?
Marcel Devereux
Aideron Robotics
Aideron Robotics.
#53 - 2014-02-26 14:27:30 UTC
Jaro Essa wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:

VEXOR:
-10 m/s velocity
+0.03 inertia
-210000 mass

This seems like a bit of a double whammy, a very slight nerf to gank-focused blaster fits coupled with a slight nerf to 1600mm plate fits. Very small nerfs, but still. Is the intention to increase the differentiation between the Vexor and the Thorax?


Fozzie, Are you making this change for shield fit Vexors?
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#54 - 2014-02-26 14:29:18 UTC
Will we get so see an assault frigates tweak soon?

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Silivar Karkun
Doomheim
#55 - 2014-02-26 14:41:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Silivar Karkun
Trajan Al'Thor wrote:
Any chance of getting the Amarrian Inquisitor changed to Drones/Missiles? This race already has 2 other turret laser ships in the ship class, and it would go in line with the other ships in the Amarrian lineup.


for what?, its not a combat ship anymore, nor an EWAR boat, it would make more sense to give those emphasis to the Crucifier or the Tormentor, more logical to the Crucifier being an EWAR boat too.....

the whole Amarrian frigate line is ****** up anyways:

-the Punisher should get an extra midslot (take out one high and increase the damage bonus to 10% per lvl, 2 turret hardpoints and the mid allows to fit a web and a scram at the same time)

-the Tormentor (which was originally the mining frigate, then later changed to a combat one) should have been the logistic ship

-the Inquisitor should have remained a missile boat with bonus up to date to the current rebalance

-if CCP wants to keep the current theme, then the Crucifier must get a 2 missile hardpoints and that ends the problem, if they dont want to make it a hybrid drone+EWAR boat
Nikor Taron
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#56 - 2014-02-26 14:43:24 UTC
We need a T2 frigate logi option. Small gangs that want to you buffer assault frigs with logi are stuck with support that is either too weak or can't keep up with the gang. T2 versions of the support frigates along the lines of the T2 cruiser support logi's would be damn useful.
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#57 - 2014-02-26 15:16:55 UTC
+1 BECAUSE RIFTER

Finally, a minmatar MSE-kiting ship that can project barrage out to meta-point-range!

Thanks a lot.
Christopher Crusman
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#58 - 2014-02-26 15:22:19 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Ransu Asanari wrote:
I'm honestly not a fan of the Breacher ROF change. Having the damage bonus not be type-specific meant it was one of the few ships that could actually use the missile advantage of selectable damage, and was very versatile. I really enjoyed flying the Breacher during the Stay Frosty Frigate FFA and used this to great effect.

Changing this to a ROF bonus feels like a nerf, since it means you're doing less damage between reloads and you're running out of ammo faster.


I think you'll find that the increase in dps will be significant enough to more than balance out the more common reloads.


The DPS increase is tiny: 105.26% vs 105.00%

I don't think that 0.26% extra damage over time is going to swing any fights. What is relevent is that the Breacher will get it's extra volley in more often.

Come now, Malcanis, you know better than this. At level V, it's 133% vs. 125% (a 6.7% relative increase in DPS) - still not huge, perhaps, but the strength of RoF bonuses' scaling is in how they accelerate with additional ranks, not in how they perform at rank 1.
Jureth22
State War Academy
Caldari State
#59 - 2014-02-26 15:24:52 UTC
Ransu Asanari wrote:
I'm honestly not a fan of the Breacher ROF change. Having the damage bonus not be type-specific meant it was one of the few ships that could actually use the missile advantage of selectable damage, and was very versatile. I really enjoyed flying the Breacher during the Stay Frosty Frigate FFA and used this to great effect.

Changing this to a ROF bonus feels like a nerf, since it means you're doing less damage between reloads and you're running out of ammo faster.


this ^

also,claymore having 2 rof bonuses is just bad,considering the missiles are bad aswell.
Elewem
Wormbro
The Society For Unethical Treatment Of Sleepers
#60 - 2014-02-26 15:29:42 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:


RIFTER:
Removed +7.5% Small Projectile Turret tracking bonus
Added +10% Small Projectile Turret falloff bonus
+10 m/s velocity
+0.01 inertia



Will I have to ship my USB desk ornament back to you for the changes to be made, or will they occur when I patch? :D