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[Rubicon 1.3] T1 Frigate and Cruiser Balance Pass

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Jonas Staal
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#201 - 2014-02-28 13:35:09 UTC
Isn't the Rupture forgotten here?

It seems kind a odd that a Vexor that's already faster with prop mods than a Rupture gets an even better speed with speed mods on :/
pyronatic
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#202 - 2014-02-28 14:03:21 UTC
Honestly you want to fix the Rifter give it another mid or low.
Naomi Anthar
#203 - 2014-02-28 15:26:05 UTC
pyronatic wrote:
Honestly you want to fix the Rifter give it another mid or low.


You can say same about high on punisher, slicer, executioner (where you want to kite with scorch right ?) , succubus - even new one. And many other ships.

CCP put some extra utility highs on some ships to be sure they get guaranted number of total slots H+M+L. I do honestly think they know those are useless often ;p. Sometimes i understand. For example new succubus would be pretty out of control with 4 lows or 5 mids ... And rifter ... be thankful for what you got.
Shpenat
Ironman Inc.
Transgress
#204 - 2014-02-28 15:33:12 UTC
pyronatic wrote:
Honestly you want to fix the Rifter give it another mid or low.


Every other combat frigate has 10 slots. Why should rifter get 11?

If you mean moving the utility high to low or mid the I have question for you: What so drastic changed for rifter? Before the balance pass it was considered a positive thing to have utility high (and you can put launcher there)
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#205 - 2014-02-28 15:44:49 UTC
Shpenat wrote:
pyronatic wrote:
Honestly you want to fix the Rifter give it another mid or low.


Every other combat frigate has 10 slots. Why should rifter get 11?

If you mean moving the utility high to low or mid the I have question for you: What so drastic changed for rifter? Before the balance pass it was considered a positive thing to have utility high (and you can put launcher there)


Rifter has 9

Utility highs are useless

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#206 - 2014-02-28 16:47:43 UTC
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
Shpenat wrote:
pyronatic wrote:
Honestly you want to fix the Rifter give it another mid or low.


Every other combat frigate has 10 slots. Why should rifter get 11?

If you mean moving the utility high to low or mid the I have question for you: What so drastic changed for rifter? Before the balance pass it was considered a positive thing to have utility high (and you can put launcher there)


Rifter has 9

Utility highs are useless


the problem with utility highs is that Nos/neuts use up too much pg and cpu .. this is especially apparent on frigs..

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Naomi Anthar
#207 - 2014-02-28 16:50:48 UTC
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
Shpenat wrote:
pyronatic wrote:
Honestly you want to fix the Rifter give it another mid or low.


Every other combat frigate has 10 slots. Why should rifter get 11?

If you mean moving the utility high to low or mid the I have question for you: What so drastic changed for rifter? Before the balance pass it was considered a positive thing to have utility high (and you can put launcher there)


Rifter has 9

Utility highs are useless


This, also one of best succubus buffs is getting low instead of high, people don't praise this fact.
But it's actually one biggest buffs this ship is getting. With old setup no bonus would be enough to make it worthy.
Let's hope phantasm will get MISSING slot + one less uitlity high. Same with Nightmare.
Arya Regnar
Darwins Right Hand
#208 - 2014-02-28 17:14:46 UTC
Noooooooo.
My vexor.

Sniff.Evil

-5% speed *cries*

EvE-Mail me if you need anything.
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#209 - 2014-02-28 17:36:45 UTC
Iyacia Cyric'ai wrote:
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
Utility highs on frigates are utterly useless.

Not really. A nos on a tackle frig helps keep takle against larger ships with a neut. Small neuts are useful for breaking active tanks on frigates with low DPS but win through damage mitigation (i.e. tracking/range etc). I mean, yes a cap booster in the mids would be better than a nos but I hardly think utility highs should should be removed from all frigates.


Yes, a nos in a utility high might save you in extreme niche cases that never actually happen.

For all intents and purposes however they are wasted slots that offer maybe 20% of the value that normal slots offer.

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#210 - 2014-02-28 17:42:28 UTC
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
Iyacia Cyric'ai wrote:
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
Utility highs on frigates are utterly useless.

Not really. A nos on a tackle frig helps keep takle against larger ships with a neut. Small neuts are useful for breaking active tanks on frigates with low DPS but win through damage mitigation (i.e. tracking/range etc). I mean, yes a cap booster in the mids would be better than a nos but I hardly think utility highs should should be removed from all frigates.


Yes, a nos in a utility high might save you in extreme niche cases that never actually happen.

For all intents and purposes however they are wasted slots that offer maybe 20% of the value that normal slots offer.


mm.. mainly cap using guns like lasers and blasters can get any real benefit from nos as if you're being neuted by a medium neut than a nos won't do much any way.. yet that doesn't seem to factor into the ship rebalancing efforts so far..

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Milton Middleson
Rifterlings
#211 - 2014-02-28 17:45:52 UTC
Utility highs would be more valued if there was a wider range of useful options than neut, nos, or off-type weapon.
Icarus Able
Refuse.Resist
#212 - 2014-02-28 18:54:58 UTC
You are giving the Omen a speed buff....Its already possibly the best cruiser with excellent damage projection and enough lows to nano and Armor tank, while already having decent speed.

If anything the rupture needs a slight buff in speed and the stabber needs a bit more DPS.
Catherine Laartii
Doomheim
#213 - 2014-02-28 19:54:34 UTC
Mournful Conciousness wrote:
Catherine Laartii wrote:
Rek Seven wrote:
But what does it all mean? Shocked


It means the minmatar are going to be even more obnoxious with their rifters, but the amarr will stand a better chance of catching up to them.

It also means the Vexor didn't get a nerf, it in fact got a buff with the mass reduction. Beware the speed-tanking shield vexor...


-10 m/s definitely looks like a nerf to me.


Big mass reduction should definitely overcompensate for that, especially with the right mods.
Goldensaver
Maraque Enterprises
Just let it happen
#214 - 2014-02-28 21:12:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Goldensaver
Icarus Able wrote:
You are giving the Omen a speed buff....Its already possibly the best cruiser with excellent damage projection and enough lows to nano and Armor tank, while already having decent speed.

If anything the rupture needs a slight buff in speed and the stabber needs a bit more DPS.


Edit: I'm ********.

But really, no speed buff while running prop mods. It only has a without prop speed boost. The increased mass counteracts the higher base speed. It simply makes it a bit more agile while under propulsion.

Also, I wouldn't quite say the Omen's the best. It's up there, but not quite the best for T1 cruisers. Maybe tied for the best with a few others, but not alone at #1.
masternerdguy
Doomheim
#215 - 2014-03-01 01:03:06 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:


CARACAL:
+0.01 inertia

Thanks for reading, and we look forward to your feedback.


It begins!

Things are only impossible until they are not.
Deerin
East Trading Co Ltd
#216 - 2014-03-01 16:59:04 UTC
Can you guys also take a look at Vigil. It is the single most useless t1 frig atm. 15mbit/30m^3 drones maybe?
Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#217 - 2014-03-01 20:21:23 UTC
Deerin wrote:
Can you guys also take a look at Vigil. It is the single most useless t1 frig atm. 15mbit/30m^3 drones maybe?


Minmatar e-war will be questionable unless the tracking formula is revised with more emphasis on sig radius.
Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#218 - 2014-03-01 20:45:37 UTC
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
Iyacia Cyric'ai wrote:
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
Utility highs on frigates are utterly useless.

Not really. A nos on a tackle frig helps keep takle against larger ships with a neut. Small neuts are useful for breaking active tanks on frigates with low DPS but win through damage mitigation (i.e. tracking/range etc). I mean, yes a cap booster in the mids would be better than a nos but I hardly think utility highs should should be removed from all frigates.


Yes, a nos in a utility high might save you in extreme niche cases that never actually happen.

For all intents and purposes however they are wasted slots that offer maybe 20% of the value that normal slots offer.


Cap warfare at the small range doesn't matter? Or nos/neuts can't compete with the extra range that OGB links allow?
Milton Middleson
Rifterlings
#219 - 2014-03-01 20:48:56 UTC
Quote:
Or nos/neuts can't compete with the extra range that OGB links allow?


So, you're saying we should give rifters and punishers a fitting bonus to warfare links? I'm okay with this.
Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#220 - 2014-03-01 21:04:49 UTC
Milton Middleson wrote:
Quote:
Or nos/neuts can't compete with the extra range that OGB links allow?


So, you're saying we should give rifters and punishers a fitting bonus to warfare links? I'm okay with this.


Scram range is 9km. Overheated it's 10.8 km. Add links and you're pushing 13km+ or something silly. The 6.3 km range for small neuts/nos was thought up in a completely different era. Maybe it's time to rebalance their range. (8km?)