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[Rubicon 1.3] T1 Frigate and Cruiser Balance Pass

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Hrett
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#181 - 2014-02-27 21:41:30 UTC
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
I'm a little surprised the Rupture isn't getting a balance pass.


I think it did. The vexor got nerfed.

spaceship, Spaceship, SPACESHIP!
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#182 - 2014-02-27 22:08:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Garviel Tarrant
Mr Floydy wrote:
Really is no pleasing some people.

Hi guys, welcome to Eve where regularly players ***** and moan constantly because the Devs are trying to make the game more fun for everyone. Keep it up CCP, I like the Amarr armour changes!


The whole point of these threads is that they want to see the moan/props ratio

People really need to get it into their heads that saying bad things about a game should not be discouraged if its constructive.

Taoist Dragon wrote:
+1 for Rifter and Punisher changes.

+1million for not falling into the craptrap of thinking the punisher 'needs' a 3rd mid \o/


The easiest way to fix the punisher would be a third mid.

A more interesting solution would be another low.. Utility highs on frigates are utterly useless.

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#183 - 2014-02-27 22:22:09 UTC
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
Utility highs on frigates are utterly useless.

So give the Punisher a missile hardpoint so it can supplement its bad tracking with a little guaranteed damage from a rocket launcher!

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
Nagarythe Tinurandir
Einheit X-6
#184 - 2014-02-28 01:41:51 UTC
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
...Utility highs on frigates are utterly useless.


QFT. there is seldomly enough fitting o make use of them. no reason to srew up a fitting just to make use of them.

apart from that, glad to see the Rifter getting changed so it has a chance of getting out of the Slashers shadow.
Taoist Dragon
Okata Syndicate
#185 - 2014-02-28 02:04:40 UTC
Garviel Tarrant wrote:


Utility highs on frigates are utterly useless.


Bollocks! Utility highs give unusual and interesting fittings.

Looks ta the old rifter (king of frigs apparently) has a 4th high that can fit missile launchers yet for the vast majority of fits it used it for nos/nuets. Hell I've even seen spider tank punishers and they can be a ***** to fight. While I wouldn't complain if the punisher go the option fit a fit a launcher (as it does fit in with amarr lore etc : Khanid) I don't see it being used all that often over a Nos/neut given the punishers excellent cap.

removeing utility highs firmly puts the ship in a simple dps/tank ratio battle. And guess what? that will completely kill of the punisher unless you then do the craptrap route of giving it a 3rd mid. Hell lets give all frig the same fitting/slots and be done with it. No need to 'balance' stuff that is identical after all.

That is the Way, the Tao.

Balance is everything.
Catherine Laartii
Doomheim
#186 - 2014-02-28 03:18:57 UTC
Nick Starkey wrote:
The Rifter change was nice. The current Rifter right now is too redundant to its Slasher brother and hopefully can now put full use of scram kiting witouth resorting to Barrage. Punisher might need some more help, though. It's really hard to make brawling frigates with only 2 mid slots work. Perhaps some kind of neut bonus range would make sense? The ship is already very sturdy and could be really useful in small gangs by neuting from a long range, since it's still going to have troubles keeping with targets.


Would you be against turning it or the Tormentor into a drone boat? amarr drone frig would be very fun. TBH I would have rather seen them turn the crucifier into a full-time drone frig with similar bonuses as the arbitrator. Might be a little too OP as a kite frig, but Amarr do OP well without making it too obvious, despite being gold-pated. XD
Catherine Laartii
Doomheim
#187 - 2014-02-28 03:28:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Catherine Laartii
Taoist Dragon wrote:
Garviel Tarrant wrote:


Utility highs on frigates are utterly useless.


Bollocks! Utility highs give unusual and interesting fittings.

Looks ta the old rifter (king of frigs apparently) has a 4th high that can fit missile launchers yet for the vast majority of fits it used it for nos/nuets. Hell I've even seen spider tank punishers and they can be a ***** to fight. While I wouldn't complain if the punisher go the option fit a fit a launcher (as it does fit in with amarr lore etc : Khanid) I don't see it being used all that often over a Nos/neut given the punishers excellent cap.

removeing utility highs firmly puts the ship in a simple dps/tank ratio battle. And guess what? that will completely kill of the punisher unless you then do the craptrap route of giving it a 3rd mid. Hell lets give all frig the same fitting/slots and be done with it. No need to 'balance' stuff that is identical after all.


hehe, he said to swap the punsisher's high for a low; I'd to see how well that would go over. Btw, I noticed your blog and how you were talking a lot about executioners, which considering the above comments about the usefulness of utility highs, I remembered the executioner I fly, and how I almost always use an offlined mod to soak up some heat. I have a good fit for you:

[Executioner]

[High Slots]
Small Focused Pulse Laser II, Scorch S
Small Focused Pulse Laser II, Scorch S
Small Focused Pulse Laser II, Scorch S
Salvager I (offline)

[Med Slots]
Medium Azeotropic Ward Salubrity I
Warp Disruptor II
Limited 1MN Microwarpdrive I

[Low Slots]
Micro Auxiliary Power Core II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II

[Rigs]
Small Polycarbon Engine Housing I
Small Polycarbon Engine Housing I
Small Energy Collision Accelerator I

17km pulse range, cap stability, and goes 4km/s if you have zor's hyper-link implant. Salvager is only present for overheating purposes, or if you're successful enough with the ship you can salvage the wrecks of your broken and fallen enemies. Oh, and it fits with exactly 0 Cpu left over. It's kind of perfect. :)
Iyacia Cyric'ai
Lai Dai Counterintelligence
#188 - 2014-02-28 03:45:30 UTC
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
Utility highs on frigates are utterly useless.

Not really. A nos on a tackle frig helps keep takle against larger ships with a neut. Small neuts are useful for breaking active tanks on frigates with low DPS but win through damage mitigation (i.e. tracking/range etc). I mean, yes a cap booster in the mids would be better than a nos but I hardly think utility highs should should be removed from all frigates.
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#189 - 2014-02-28 04:19:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Hasikan Miallok
Catherine Laartii wrote:


Would you be against turning it or the Tormentor into a drone boat? amarr drone frig would be very fun. TBH I would have rather seen them turn the crucifier into a full-time drone frig with similar bonuses as the arbitrator. Might be a little too OP as a kite frig, but Amarr do OP well without making it too obvious, despite being gold-pated. XD


Much as I like the Arbie (and I own several) to my mind it is generally outclassed by the Vexor and as for the Vexor Navy, the VNI is in a different league altogether from the Arbitrator. The only Ammar drone boat that truly stands out is the Prophecy.
Catherine Laartii
Doomheim
#190 - 2014-02-28 04:37:40 UTC
thank god for that kessie mass drop; it doesn't handle well in fast situations very well vs other mwd boats. +1
Hrett
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#191 - 2014-02-28 04:37:59 UTC
Iyacia Cyric'ai wrote:
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
Utility highs on frigates are utterly useless.

Not really. A nos on a tackle frig helps keep takle against larger ships with a neut. Small neuts are useful for breaking active tanks on frigates with low DPS but win through damage mitigation (i.e. tracking/range etc). I mean, yes a cap booster in the mids would be better than a nos but I hardly think utility highs should should be removed from all frigates.


Or do something novel and put a rocket in it.

spaceship, Spaceship, SPACESHIP!
Aivo Dresden
State War Academy
Caldari State
#192 - 2014-02-28 08:15:40 UTC
The Punisher is already a fairly decent frigate, the Rifter could use some more love though. I'm not really sure the Kestrel needed a buff, it was already an excellent kiter. Giving it more mobility seems a bit counter intuitive.
Alghara
Les chevaliers de l'ordre
Goonswarm Federation
#193 - 2014-02-28 08:40:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Alghara
Yep

pls add a real bonus on Tormentor and Executioner and remove this 10% reduction in Small Energy Turret activation cost, this is a joke from a lot year.

It's not a bonus when you can use your guns ...


Executioner

- 10% reduction in Small Energy Turret activation cost
+ 20% Energy bonus to energy vampire and energy neutralizer transfer range

Tormentor

- 10% reduction in Small Energy Turret activation cost
+ 10% bonus to small Energy Turret Optimal Range

And adapt the capacitor.

Cruiser

Also about logistics ship Armor

They are for me some mistake about your layout when you use cap transfert (Augoror).

You keep the same number of slow between the logistics ship using the cap transfert and the other (Exequror ).

It's not interesting to use ship with cap transfer because you have the same repair and less tanking (slot layout).

Pls you need to adapt the Augoror add low for Augoror or you need to change the layout (same for the version t2).

If you compare Augoror versus Exequror now

We have less tanking
We have less speed
We have higher signature radius

Or perhaps Adapt already the signature radius

Augoror 90 to 80
Exequror 80 to 90


Omen

- 10% reduction in medium Energy Turret activation cost
+ 5% bonus to medium turret tracking speed
Mournful Conciousness
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#194 - 2014-02-28 09:03:45 UTC
Sad Shame about the vexor nerf. Gallente ships need to be fast since they are not strong and are only useful at close range.

Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
Mr Floydy
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#195 - 2014-02-28 09:25:50 UTC
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
Mr Floydy wrote:
Really is no pleasing some people.

Hi guys, welcome to Eve where regularly players ***** and moan constantly because the Devs are trying to make the game more fun for everyone. Keep it up CCP, I like the Amarr armour changes!


The whole point of these threads is that they want to see the moan/props ratio

People really need to get it into their heads that saying bad things about a game should not be discouraged if its constructive.

There is a massive difference between moaning that they think the changes are bad and moaning because things are being changed. One is useful and the other is a waste of time for everyone.

1) Hi CCP, I think the changes are good, however I believe X needs more cap because of Y situation. <-- actually usefully
2) WAH WAH WAH WHY DO YOU KEEP CHANGING THINGS ALL THE TIME <-- completely bloody pointless. Quit the game and give me your stuff.
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#196 - 2014-02-28 09:31:33 UTC
But what does it all mean? Shocked

The wishlist is pretty much complete...
Catherine Laartii
Doomheim
#197 - 2014-02-28 10:05:20 UTC
Rek Seven wrote:
But what does it all mean? Shocked


It means the minmatar are going to be even more obnoxious with their rifters, but the amarr will stand a better chance of catching up to them.

It also means the Vexor didn't get a nerf, it in fact got a buff with the mass reduction. Beware the speed-tanking shield vexor...
Mournful Conciousness
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#198 - 2014-02-28 11:04:36 UTC
Catherine Laartii wrote:
Rek Seven wrote:
But what does it all mean? Shocked


It means the minmatar are going to be even more obnoxious with their rifters, but the amarr will stand a better chance of catching up to them.

It also means the Vexor didn't get a nerf, it in fact got a buff with the mass reduction. Beware the speed-tanking shield vexor...


-10 m/s definitely looks like a nerf to me.

Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
Gwen Waokno
The Grey Eagles
#199 - 2014-02-28 11:29:48 UTC
Are there any changes applied to the navy versions of these ships?
Deerin
East Trading Co Ltd
#200 - 2014-02-28 12:19:46 UTC
Mournful Conciousness wrote:
Catherine Laartii wrote:
Rek Seven wrote:
But what does it all mean? Shocked


It means the minmatar are going to be even more obnoxious with their rifters, but the amarr will stand a better chance of catching up to them.

It also means the Vexor didn't get a nerf, it in fact got a buff with the mass reduction. Beware the speed-tanking shield vexor...


-10 m/s definitely looks like a nerf to me.


Reduced mass = more mwd speed and agility, which offsets base speed penalty and makes vexor more agile.