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The Two and a Half Minutes Hate: Birth of a Ritual
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Agiri Falken
Akagi Initiative
#141 - 2014-02-28 23:58:03 UTC
Claudia Osyn wrote:
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Claudia Osyn wrote:
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
I envy all these people who've never had to do a days work with one hand pinching their nostrils shut. Must be nice.

Hauling fertilizer was your choice. You can hardy blame others for avoiding that career path.Roll


When they do so by choosing to avoid doing anything significant? Don't you tell me who I can and can't blame.

Who is to say that what they do isnt significant? Maby there idea of what's significant is just different then yours, or they are just busy keeping there business going to involve themself in the things you consider noteworthy. So really, can't blame them.

It's a reference to civilians who've never had to do the unmentionable work that goes into keeping them comfortable, hon. It doesn't have to make the news, and rarely does, at any rate. Those who actually do that sort of work lose their tolerance for bull**** after awhile, is all.
Anabella Rella
Gradient
Electus Matari
#142 - 2014-03-01 00:04:20 UTC
Aldrith Shutaq wrote:

"Cooperation with respectful dissent" is reserved for fellow human beings who are not committing flagrant moral violations against their fellow man...


Does this also apply to the Amarr as they practice slavery, an institution outlawed in the rest of the cluster and deemed immoral?

When the world is running down, you make the best of what's still around.
Aldrith Shutaq
Atash e Sarum Vanguard
#143 - 2014-03-01 03:35:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Aldrith Shutaq
Stitcher wrote:
Winds and stone, is basic reading comprehension really too much to ask of people who fly megaton starships with their brains?

My statement was meant to apply to having relations with the Sansha and their capsuleer loyalists, not with ALXVP. However I have found them to be amoral snakes that fit right into their w-space home like the exiles they ought to be.

Anabella Rella wrote:
Does this also apply to the Amarr as they practice slavery, an institution outlawed in the rest of the cluster and deemed immoral?

If you believe we are not human beings, then by all means, apply it and do what you are morally obligated to do.

And if you do, I will be the first to personally apply the laser to your brain.

Aldrith Ter'neth Shutaq Newelle

Fleet Captain of the Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris

Divine Commodore of the 24th Imperial Crusade

Lord Consort of Lady Mitara Newelle, Champion of House Sarum and Holder of Damnidios Para'nashu
Anabella Rella
Gradient
Electus Matari
#144 - 2014-03-01 05:52:07 UTC
Thanks for your approval. Pilot Shutaq. I'll be able to sleep at night now knowing that you've given your blessings to my actions.

Sarcasm aside, it's not me or my people who call you imperials "heathens", "sub-humans", "animals" or any of dozens of other denigrating terms designed to dehumanize and villify so as to justify your criminal behavior. We all know that it's far easier to brutalize and kill ones' opponents if they're viewed as less than human. While we hate what you've done to us in the past, despise your religion, culture and government, we still view you as human.

To me this is a simple matter. We don't need or want your deity, religion or culture. We don't want to be part of your empire. We don't want to bow and scrape before you, your rulers or your deity. We want to be left alone to decide our own paths, to determine for ourselves what's best for us and our posterity. Why is this concept so difficult to grasp for you imperials? Just as you refuse to accept the Gallente, for example, spreading their culture and values to your people, we refuse to accept your attempts to do the exact same thing especially by use of force. Why can't you be content to allow your values to compete in the open marketplace of ideas? If people see them as superior or, fitting in with their world view, they'll join you willingly.

So, as I see it, you imperials can choose to either abandon your campaign for universal subjugation or, continue on as you feel your deity and culture demands. Just be aware that if you do, eventually it will spell your demise and I'll be the one jockeying to get to the head of the line to fire a depleted uranium slug into your skull.

When the world is running down, you make the best of what's still around.
Valerie Valate
Church of The Crimson Saviour
#145 - 2014-03-01 09:47:37 UTC
So, what have we learned from this thread?

1. Jovians are always up to no good
2. Amarrians are crazy
3. Minmatar are angry
4. Stitcher confesses to being someone that will 'shoot blues' if given the opportunity
5. Stitcher's corporation is happy to have members that are unable to follow standings
6. Makes you wonder why anyone would agree standings with them
7. Nauplius didn't fall into that bottomless Pit that was discovered a few weeks back


Another quality thread from the IGS. This just gets better every day. Yaay

Doctor V. Valate, Professor of Archaeology at Kaztropolis Imperial University.
Synthetic Cultist
Church of The Crimson Saviour
#146 - 2014-03-01 09:52:38 UTC
Calling a human person a sub-human is Ludicrous for anyone of the Amarr Faith.

A Sub-Human is by Definition, Incapable of being Righteous, or Unrighteous, and thus Not a suitable Candidate for the Reclaiming.

A Slaver Hound is sub-human, and is Not capable of being Righteous or Unrighteous.

A human Person is capable of being Righteous or Unrighteous, and as such, should be Encouraged to Embrace Gods Love, as is Written in the Scriptures.

Thus, any Amarr person calling a human person a Sub-Human, is either engaging in Crude Psychological Warfare, or is Unrighteously Misinterpreting the Scriptures and should be Shunned.

Shun the Unrighteous.

Synthia 1, Empress of Kaztropol.

It is Written.
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#147 - 2014-03-01 11:25:13 UTC
Synthetic Cultist wrote:

A Sub-Human is by Definition, Incapable of being Righteous, or Unrighteous

But they can be self-righteous.
Just take a look at population of the Federation.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Ruin Rolmera
#148 - 2014-03-01 14:39:21 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Ruin Rolmera wrote:
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:

Not to detract from the rest of your statement, but I didn't realise you had family in slavery?


The word kin does not always mean immediate family. Almost all of us have members of our tribes, sub-tribes, or clans in slavery.


If you extend the term out to the Tribe level, doesn't it detract some from the emotional impact of it? I feel a vague sense of kinship to other Kalaakiota employees, but almost no connection to other Civire simply because we share that bloodline. Meanwhile my identification with my kirjuun is strong.


Sure, connections will vary depending on how wide of a view you currently take. I have a deeper connection with my sub-tribe than I do with my tribe, and with my clan than I do with my sub-tribe. I still consider them all as kin, though.
Nauplius
Hoi Andrapodistai
#149 - 2014-03-02 02:18:14 UTC
Synthetic Cultist wrote:
Calling a human person a sub-human is Ludicrous for anyone of the Amarr Faith.

A Sub-Human is by Definition, Incapable of being Righteous, or Unrighteous, and thus Not a suitable Candidate for the Reclaiming.

A Slaver Hound is sub-human, and is Not capable of being Righteous or Unrighteous.

A human Person is capable of being Righteous or Unrighteous, and as such, should be Encouraged to Embrace Gods Love, as is Written in the Scriptures.

Thus, any Amarr person calling a human person a Sub-Human, is either engaging in Crude Psychological Warfare, or is Unrighteously Misinterpreting the Scriptures and should be Shunned.

Shun the Unrighteous.


We Amarr can discern whether someone is unrighteous or sub-human without assistance from the Blood Raiders, thank you very much.
Saya Ishikari
Ishukone-Raata Technological Research Institute
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#150 - 2014-03-02 03:01:45 UTC
Ruin Rolmera wrote:
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Ruin Rolmera wrote:
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:

Not to detract from the rest of your statement, but I didn't realise you had family in slavery?


The word kin does not always mean immediate family. Almost all of us have members of our tribes, sub-tribes, or clans in slavery.


If you extend the term out to the Tribe level, doesn't it detract some from the emotional impact of it? I feel a vague sense of kinship to other Kalaakiota employees, but almost no connection to other Civire simply because we share that bloodline. Meanwhile my identification with my kirjuun is strong.


Sure, connections will vary depending on how wide of a view you currently take. I have a deeper connection with my sub-tribe than I do with my tribe, and with my clan than I do with my sub-tribe. I still consider them all as kin, though.

To put it simply, the situations aren't as similar as they appear to be. The connotations of "kin" for people such as Pieter and myself, are altered by both orign and upbringing. I, for instance, have only one blood relation that I know of, and no extended ties in either direction beyond those who could loosely be called kirjuun by affiliation (Kaalakiota). The remainder of those whom I consider to be "family" in a more real sense are people who, for whatever reason, have grown to mean something more to me than being faces in the crowd. Some aren't even Caldari.

"At the end of it all, we have only what we've left in our wake to be remembered by." -Kyoko Ishikari, YC 95 - YC 117
Ruin Rolmera
#151 - 2014-03-02 03:35:39 UTC
Saya Ishikari wrote:

To put it simply, the situations aren't as similar as they appear to be. The connotations of "kin" for people such as Pieter and myself, are altered by both orign and upbringing. I, for instance, have only one blood relation that I know of, and no extended ties in either direction beyond those who could loosely be called kirjuun by affiliation (Kaalakiota). The remainder of those whom I consider to be "family" in a more real sense are people who, for whatever reason, have grown to mean something more to me than being faces in the crowd. Some aren't even Caldari.


I am not sure which associations would be comparable since the perspectives are so different, but be assured I wasn't attempting to tell him what his kirjuun was or was not to him. I was merely referring to another use of kin that some may not have thought of. Just as I could not understand what someone being kirjuun means to you, I would have difficulty explaining the meaning of my tribe to you.

But I assume that you would have pretty powerful reactions to some of them being enslaved.
Saya Ishikari
Ishukone-Raata Technological Research Institute
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#152 - 2014-03-02 03:42:40 UTC
Ruin Rolmera wrote:
Saya Ishikari wrote:

To put it simply, the situations aren't as similar as they appear to be. The connotations of "kin" for people such as Pieter and myself, are altered by both orign and upbringing. I, for instance, have only one blood relation that I know of, and no extended ties in either direction beyond those who could loosely be called kirjuun by affiliation (Kaalakiota). The remainder of those whom I consider to be "family" in a more real sense are people who, for whatever reason, have grown to mean something more to me than being faces in the crowd. Some aren't even Caldari.


I am not sure which associations would be comparable since the perspectives are so different, but be assured I wasn't attempting to tell him what his kirjuun was or was not to him. I was merely referring to another use of kin that some may not have thought of. Just as I could not understand what someone being kirjuun means to you, I would have difficulty explaining the meaning of my tribe to you.

But I assume that you would have pretty powerful reactions to some of them being enslaved.

It wasn't meant to be deeply comparative, to be clear. I've spent time among the Minmatar, specifically a sub-tribe of Sebiestor, so I do have a limited understanding of tribe and family in that sense, just not the same deep life experience in such matters.

And yes, Mister Rolmera, I would have a very unpleasant reaction indeed to finding anyone I care about held against their will. That, you need not explain further.

"At the end of it all, we have only what we've left in our wake to be remembered by." -Kyoko Ishikari, YC 95 - YC 117
Ruin Rolmera
#153 - 2014-03-02 15:00:23 UTC
Saya Ishikari wrote:

It wasn't meant to be deeply comparative, to be clear. I've spent time among the Minmatar, specifically a sub-tribe of Sebiestor, so I do have a limited understanding of tribe and family in that sense, just not the same deep life experience in such matters.


In my short time as a capsuleer, I've heard people say the phrase "I've spent time among the Minmatar" surprisingly often. What does this mean? People take vacations to us? What, are we a curiosity? I do not understand where this comes from. Do people just think one day, "My, that's an odd bunch. I'm going to go spend time with them and see what that's all about."
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#154 - 2014-03-02 18:30:52 UTC
Ruin Rolmera wrote:
Saya Ishikari wrote:

To put it simply, the situations aren't as similar as they appear to be. The connotations of "kin" for people such as Pieter and myself, are altered by both orign and upbringing. I, for instance, have only one blood relation that I know of, and no extended ties in either direction beyond those who could loosely be called kirjuun by affiliation (Kaalakiota). The remainder of those whom I consider to be "family" in a more real sense are people who, for whatever reason, have grown to mean something more to me than being faces in the crowd. Some aren't even Caldari.


I am not sure which associations would be comparable since the perspectives are so different, but be assured I wasn't attempting to tell him what his kirjuun was or was not to him. I was merely referring to another use of kin that some may not have thought of. Just as I could not understand what someone being kirjuun means to you, I would have difficulty explaining the meaning of my tribe to you.

But I assume that you would have pretty powerful reactions to some of them being enslaved.


You are quite correct there. I would move heavens and stone. In this I quite empathise with the morivations of the Matari - except for where they stretch that need to intervene out to people who haven't been their kin for a thousand years and who may not even welcome 'rescue'.

Caldari like myself and Saya are perhaps alone in the Cluster in not conflating kin with blood family - I, myself, have only siblings and no parents, for example.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
Ruin Rolmera
#155 - 2014-03-02 20:47:03 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:


You are quite correct there. I would move heavens and stone. In this I quite empathise with the morivations of the Matari - except for where they stretch that need to intervene out to people who haven't been their kin for a thousand years and who may not even welcome 'rescue'.

Caldari like myself and Saya are perhaps alone in the Cluster in not conflating kin with blood family - I, myself, have only siblings and no parents, for example.


You should probably not attach your notion of kin to us, then. It is that simple, sadly.
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#156 - 2014-03-02 21:42:42 UTC
Nothing sad about it. I wouldn't expect all cultural constructs to translate between us - but it is useful knowing how YOU use the word, for reference.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
Ruin Rolmera
#157 - 2014-03-02 21:47:20 UTC
When specific words are needed, they are used. When broad words are needed, they are used. Much like I assume you use kirjuun in a very specific manner and only when intended.
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#158 - 2014-03-02 23:12:48 UTC
Nauplius wrote:
We Amarr can discern whether someone is unrighteous or sub-human without assistance from the Blood Raiders, thank you very much.


Then why are you here?

http://youtu.be/t0q2F8NsYQ0
Nauplius
Hoi Andrapodistai
#159 - 2014-03-03 02:46:19 UTC
Katran Luftschreck wrote:
Nauplius wrote:
We Amarr can discern whether someone is unrighteous or sub-human without assistance from the Blood Raiders, thank you very much.


Then why are you here?


My accusers need to get their story straight. Some of you think I'm a Sansha; others, a Blood Raider; others, the Cult of the Lash; others, a Minmatar plant.

I am none of these things. I am an Amarrian loyal to Jamyl Sarum who wants to glorify God in the destruction of the Wicked, the Jove chief among them.
Kucial Kinan
Kinani Consortium
#160 - 2014-03-03 03:43:49 UTC
Nauplius wrote:

I am an Amarrian loyal to Jamyl Sarum who wants to glorify God...


You have failed in your desire immeasurably.