These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Intergalactic Summit

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

The Two and a Half Minutes Hate: Birth of a Ritual

Author
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#121 - 2014-02-28 16:35:15 UTC
Ruin Rolmera wrote:
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:

Not to detract from the rest of your statement, but I didn't realise you had family in slavery?


The word kin does not always mean immediate family. Almost all of us have members of our tribes, sub-tribes, or clans in slavery.


If you extend the term out to the Tribe level, doesn't it detract some from the emotional impact of it? I feel a vague sense of kinship to other Kalaakiota employees, but almost no connection to other Civire simply because we share that bloodline. Meanwhile my identification with my kirjuun is strong.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Anabella Rella
Gradient
Electus Matari
#122 - 2014-02-28 17:06:14 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:

Not to detract from the rest of your statement, but I didn't realise you had family in slavery?


Thanks for your sensitivity, Caldari. I actually have no idea as to my biological family's condition or exact whereabouts as I was apparently smuggled from Amarr space as an infant by two caring Gallenteans.

As far as I've been able to determine, assuming they're even still alive, my birth parents, any siblings and extended family are still being held somewhere in Amarrian space. So excuse me if I see the whole topic of Amarrian slavery as a bit more than an intellectual exercise.

When the world is running down, you make the best of what's still around.

Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#123 - 2014-02-28 17:25:02 UTC
Anabella Rella wrote:
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:

Not to detract from the rest of your statement, but I didn't realise you had family in slavery?


Thanks for your sensitivity, Caldari. I actually have no idea as to my biological family's condition or exact whereabouts as I was apparently smuggled from Amarr space as an infant by two caring Gallenteans.

As far as I've been able to determine, assuming they're even still alive, my birth parents, any siblings and extended family are still being held somewhere in Amarrian space. So excuse me if I see the whole topic of Amarrian slavery as a bit more than an intellectual exercise.


So the answer is that you do have family in slavery. Thank you.

Expecting a tubechild to be sensitive to the issue of missing family is like expecting an amputee to be sensitive to your itchy feet.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Vulxanis Viceroy
Vicarius Vitae
Khimi Harar
#124 - 2014-02-28 17:47:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Vulxanis Viceroy
Stitcher wrote:
Vulxanis Viceroy wrote:
You and I obviously went to two very different schools, heretic. As an Amarrian Lord, I can advocate that nothing of the kind was taught.


The curriculum on deadpan ironic humour at your school was clearly deficient, also.


That means very little coming from a Sansha bedmate. Oh, my apologies, non-aggression pact member. Ah. That makes so much of a difference.

Given your corporation's policies towards other abominations to humanity such as Sansha loyalists, I can understand how you thought it was meant as humor. Even if it was, it is safer to take what heretics say about violence seriously because often they may sound like they are joking, but it is very likely they actually wholeheartedly mean it.

In Character: Only responds to "Lord Draconis"

Pronounced "Vulzanis"

Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/4fanm8/eve_in_a_nutshell_and_how_to_crack_it/

Public channel: VXV EVE

Twitter: https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Vulxanis_Viceroy

Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#125 - 2014-02-28 17:53:49 UTC
Yah-huh. If you think I'm even remotely pro-Sansha then you clearly don't know who I am.

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders

Vulxanis Viceroy
Vicarius Vitae
Khimi Harar
#126 - 2014-02-28 17:55:35 UTC
Stitcher wrote:
Yah-huh. If you think I'm even remotely pro-Sansha then you clearly don't know who I am.


I find that odd, considering the corporation you have chosen to stay in. But if you wish to keep telling yourself that, that is up to you.

In Character: Only responds to "Lord Draconis"

Pronounced "Vulzanis"

Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/4fanm8/eve_in_a_nutshell_and_how_to_crack_it/

Public channel: VXV EVE

Twitter: https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Vulxanis_Viceroy

Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#127 - 2014-02-28 18:03:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Stitcher
I shouldn't expect a hardball Amarrian to understand the notion that cooperation is compatible with respectful dissent, I suppose. Or, in words of two syllables or less: "I don't have to agree with them in order to work with them, and in any case I'm trying to change their minds."

Whether you accept that or not, anybody who accuses Yakiya Verin Hakatain of being a "Sansha Bedmate" is just making an idiot of themselves in public.

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders

Gosakumori Noh
Coven of One
#128 - 2014-02-28 18:16:41 UTC
I am very disappointed that the provided sentence does appear to contain only words of two syllables or less.
Vulxanis Viceroy
Vicarius Vitae
Khimi Harar
#129 - 2014-02-28 18:32:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Vulxanis Viceroy
Stitcher wrote:
I shouldn't expect a hardball Amarrian to understand the notion that cooperation is compatible with respectful dissent, I suppose. Or, in words of two syllables or less: "I don't have to agree with them in order to work with them, and in any case I'm trying to change their minds."

Whether you accept that or not, anybody who accuses Yakiya Verin Hakatain of being a "Sansha Bedmate" is just making an idiot of themselves in public.


There is no such thing when it concerns cooperation with such monsters. However, if you wish to continue to delusion yourself into thinking that is respectable in any way shape or form, that is again entirely up to you.

In Character: Only responds to "Lord Draconis"

Pronounced "Vulzanis"

Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/4fanm8/eve_in_a_nutshell_and_how_to_crack_it/

Public channel: VXV EVE

Twitter: https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Vulxanis_Viceroy

Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#130 - 2014-02-28 19:11:40 UTC
You see collusion where there is none. My corp may technically have a non-aggression pact with the Nation, that's true - I do not. In fact, I made it plain from the get-go to Saede and the directors that I will shoot Nation vessels on sight, blue or not. This condition was made known before my contract with ALXVP began, and was deemed acceptable.

Furthermore, I am putting what pressure I can on our leadership to switch to neutral standings which, given our NBSI policy...

I quite agree, the Sansha are monsters to be fought at every turn. Unlike you, it seems I have the wit to recognise alternative forms of warfare. Diplomacy. Negotiation. the breaking of non-aggression pacts, and convincing formerly idle guns to open fire.

You see a corp that's blue to Nation, and that's all you see. I see a corp that's blue to Nation who nevertheless took on one of Nation's most historically vocal critics and violent opponents. ALXVP leadership KNOW I oppose the diplomatic status quo, KNOW that I will disobey standing orders if I find myself in that situation, KNOW that I am actively in favour of a change in standings... and they agreed to my terms and hired me.

That tells me that the situation is more nuanced than you appear to have the capacity to grasp. If you intend to thrive as an Empyrean, heed this advice - develop a less Boolean view of the world.

That is my last word on the subject for now.

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders

Aldrith Shutaq
Atash e Sarum Vanguard
#131 - 2014-02-28 19:24:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Aldrith Shutaq
Stitcher wrote:
I shouldn't expect a hardball Amarrian to understand the notion that cooperation is compatible with respectful dissent, I suppose. Or, in words of two syllables or less: "I don't have to agree with them in order to work with them, and in any case I'm trying to change their minds."

Whether you accept that or not, anybody who accuses Yakiya Verin Hakatain of being a "Sansha Bedmate" is just making an idiot of themselves in public.


"Cooperation with respectful dissent" is reserved for fellow human beings who are not committing flagrant moral violations against their fellow man.

Sansha are neither human nor moral. What you've just done is justify cooperation with the single greatest threat humanity has ever faced. That is simply idiotic.

Edit: That said, you are now openly admitting you intend to turn your current corporation against their erstwhile allies. If that is your intent, then good for you, but it doesn't seem wise to admit it publically.

Aldrith Ter'neth Shutaq Newelle

Fleet Captain of the Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris

Divine Commodore of the 24th Imperial Crusade

Lord Consort of Lady Mitara Newelle, Champion of House Sarum and Holder of Damnidios Para'nashu

Streya Jormagdnir
Alexylva Paradox
#132 - 2014-02-28 20:00:54 UTC
I can assure everyone of Subcoordinator Hakatain's earnest beliefs. He has created and engaged in an internal dialogue regarding our non-aggression pact with the True Slave Foundations corporation. That dialogue and any resulting standings policy changes will remain an internal matter unless deemed otherwise at a later date by the ALXVP Directorate.

We appreciate Verin's experience and input. We do not view him as a "traitor" or somehow stepping out of line. Rather, we foster a corporate culture where views can be changed based on evidence.

I am also a human, straggling between the present world... and our future. I am a regulator, a coordinator, one who is meant to guide the way.

Destination Unreachable: the worst Wspace blog ever

Vulxanis Viceroy
Vicarius Vitae
Khimi Harar
#133 - 2014-02-28 20:29:20 UTC
Stitcher wrote:
You see collusion where there is none. My corp may technically have a non-aggression pact with the Nation, that's true - I do not. In fact, I made it plain from the get-go to Saede and the directors that I will shoot Nation vessels on sight, blue or not. This condition was made known before my contract with ALXVP began, and was deemed acceptable.

Furthermore, I am putting what pressure I can on our leadership to switch to neutral standings which, given our NBSI policy...

I quite agree, the Sansha are monsters to be fought at every turn. Unlike you, it seems I have the wit to recognise alternative forms of warfare. Diplomacy. Negotiation. the breaking of non-aggression pacts, and convincing formerly idle guns to open fire.

You see a corp that's blue to Nation, and that's all you see. I see a corp that's blue to Nation who nevertheless took on one of Nation's most historically vocal critics and violent opponents. ALXVP leadership KNOW I oppose the diplomatic status quo, KNOW that I will disobey standing orders if I find myself in that situation, KNOW that I am actively in favour of a change in standings... and they agreed to my terms and hired me.

That tells me that the situation is more nuanced than you appear to have the capacity to grasp. If you intend to thrive as an Empyrean, heed this advice - develop a less Boolean view of the world.

That is my last word on the subject for now.


I find it very amusing that you claim that I misunderstand you, yet you are the one actually misunderstanding me. Reread how I actually phrased my comments. I was intentionally vague, and actually prefaced my comments.

But since you wished to go down the road of insults, you are the one making a fool of yourself. If you pay attention, I intentionally left you room to clarify. However, calmly explaining the difference, rather than going on the offensive, would have been the proper method. You, however, did not choose to do so, thus making a fool of yourself. For shame.

Also, diplomacy, negotiation, etc. These are my weapons of choice (if you actually looked into who I am) except when dealing with Blood Raiders or Sansha. The ONLY time I would even consider using such methods with said groups is in a hostage situation. Why? I believe Mr. Shutaq explained it quite well. If you wish to insult me, actually look into whether or not your insult applies. For it did not, thus my amusement.

You are entitled to your own opinion. I find it rather refreshing that you are against such methods and are actively against it. Good for you!

I, however, would not even allow myself to stay associated for one more day if a corporation I was in chose to make a non-aggression pact with Sansha.

I understand your position, but that does not change the fact that you are still a member of the corporation that has this agreement. What you simply do not understand, which ironically are what you claim that I 'do not understand', that these methods are not to ever be used with Sansha, for they do not work.

For one thing, to the best of my knowledge, your corporation lives in a wormhole. There is absolutely no need for such a pact! Unless, of course, your corporation has allowed them to move into your wormhole, which is an entirely new set of alarming.

It is illogical that your corporation has this treaty and yet, as you put it who nevertheless took on one of Nation's most historically vocal critics and violent opponents. I find it more idiotic that you actually joined them in the first place! If you knew their policy, that was an incredibly unwise move on your part if you wished your position as anti-sansha to remain credible.

I could be wrong. Perhaps you found about said pact after you joined them. That would at least give you a shred of dignity left for you to leave with. But either way, you are guilty by association, as you know now. Your personal views on this matter or whether or not you follow said pact are inconsequential so long as you stay a member. If this were a faction stationed in K-space I could understand the want to negotiate, because possibly that would be required to save lives. But it is not.

If you would like, I could look into finding a suitable replacement for you. I know of some wormhole corporations I could possibly recommend if you are interested in transferring.

But regardless. If you stay a member of your current corporation, anything you say to defend yourself concerning this will be a moot point, and I shall simply continue to laugh at you.

But yes I feel that there is nothing more on the OP that I can say, so I shall simply unsubscribe.

In Character: Only responds to "Lord Draconis"

Pronounced "Vulzanis"

Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/4fanm8/eve_in_a_nutshell_and_how_to_crack_it/

Public channel: VXV EVE

Twitter: https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Vulxanis_Viceroy

Gosakumori Noh
Coven of One
#134 - 2014-02-28 20:39:56 UTC
Aldrith Shutaq wrote:
Sansha are neither human nor moral. What you've just done is justify cooperation with the single greatest threat humanity has ever faced.


Is that so?
Kale Silence
Doomheim
#135 - 2014-02-28 20:48:18 UTC
Gosakumori Noh wrote:
Aldrith Shutaq wrote:
Sansha are neither human nor moral. What you've just done is justify cooperation with the single greatest threat humanity has ever faced.


Is that so?


Well, them and quafe Big smile Don't forget the threat of quafe!!!! Shocked hehe I'm done...
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#136 - 2014-02-28 22:43:49 UTC
I envy all these people who've never had to do a days work with one hand pinching their nostrils shut. Must be nice.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Claudia Osyn
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#137 - 2014-02-28 22:52:35 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
I envy all these people who've never had to do a days work with one hand pinching their nostrils shut. Must be nice.

Hauling fertilizer was your choice. You can hardy blame others for avoiding that career path.Roll

A little trust goes a long way. The less you use, the further you'll go.

Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#138 - 2014-02-28 23:01:55 UTC
Claudia Osyn wrote:
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
I envy all these people who've never had to do a days work with one hand pinching their nostrils shut. Must be nice.

Hauling fertilizer was your choice. You can hardy blame others for avoiding that career path.Roll


When they do so by choosing to avoid doing anything significant? Don't you tell me who I can and can't blame.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#139 - 2014-02-28 23:21:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Stitcher
Aldrith Shutaq wrote:
"Cooperation with respectful dissent" is reserved for fellow human beings who are not committing flagrant moral violations against their fellow man.


Hence why I am employing it in ALXVP, who are indeed fellow human beings and who are indeed not committing flagrant moral violations against our fellow man.

I don't know how you drew the conclusion that I was referring to cooperating with Sansha's Nation or its capsuleer affiliates, given that I have explicitly said that, blue standings or no, should one get within lock range of me, it will be fired upon (provided I can reasonably expect to win).

"Cooperation with respectful dissent" means that I'm perfectly capable of working in ALXVP and thoroughly enjoying their company and respecting them as people without automatically agreeing with, endorsing, or even accepting every aspect of the corporation's philosophy and politics.

Winds and stone, is basic reading comprehension really too much to ask of people who fly megaton starships with their brains?

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders

Claudia Osyn
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#140 - 2014-02-28 23:40:28 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Claudia Osyn wrote:
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
I envy all these people who've never had to do a days work with one hand pinching their nostrils shut. Must be nice.

Hauling fertilizer was your choice. You can hardy blame others for avoiding that career path.Roll


When they do so by choosing to avoid doing anything significant? Don't you tell me who I can and can't blame.

Who is to say that what they do isnt significant? Maby there idea of what's significant is just different then yours, or they are just busy keeping there business going to involve themself in the things you consider noteworthy. So really, can't blame them.

A little trust goes a long way. The less you use, the further you'll go.