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The Two and a Half Minutes Hate: Birth of a Ritual

Author
Gosakumori Noh
Coven of One
#61 - 2014-02-26 01:16:52 UTC
Simon Louvaki wrote:
God does not merely want obedience Nauplius. The Scriptures speak of Faith, and becoming closer with God. Unless those under your charge truely accept the Faith then you have failed in your duty to God.


The only sin that matters is not recognizing the Divine when confronted by it. Prior to that moment, it is not possible to fail in one's duty to God.
Vulxanis Viceroy
Vicarius Vitae
Khimi Harar
#62 - 2014-02-26 01:25:52 UTC
Simon Louvaki wrote:
God does not merely want obedience Nauplius. The Scriptures speak of Faith, and becoming closer with God. Unless those under your charge truly accept the Faith then you have failed in your duty to God and have done nothing but commit atrocity against your fellow man and potential brother. For this reason alone your brand of force can never succeed and the Cluster will never unite under Amarr.


Exactly. Brute force from those who are supposed to represent God gives those on the receiving end the wrong idea. You cannot force someone to agree with you. You can, however, show them by your example the right path, treating them with dignity, and this will cause them to want to know more. Then, and only then, will you be effective at teaching them properly.

So Nauplius, whether you respectfully disagree or not, that does not improve my opinion of you. What you want is counter intuitive, unproductive, and frankly, inhumane.

In Character: Only responds to "Lord Draconis"

Pronounced "Vulzanis"

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Fredfredbug4
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#63 - 2014-02-26 01:39:28 UTC
Nauplius wrote:
Fredfredbug4 wrote:
Unless you can find a piece of scripture that says "Lying to lower social classes is okay" then I suggest that you arrange a date with your priest for confession, or else no heaven for you.


I addressed this point on the first page. Teaching slaves a version of reality that is somewhat...different than what is taught to higher classes is nothing less that a standard feature of Amarrian slave control. Take it up with the Theology Council.


It's not a somewhat different reality. I would understanding stretching the truth a little but what you claim to be showing these slaves is a blatant lie with the only thing being correct is that the Amarrian navy was defeated. Everything else is a complete fabrication and everyone knows it, especially you and your God.

The Theology Council would say the exact same thing I am saying. What you are teaching the ignorant as fact is complete fiction. The reason why the Amarr took slaves was for education. What you are doing is brainwashing, adding insult to the injury that is slavery.

No heaven for you.

Watch_ Fred Fred Frederation_ and stop [u]cryptozoologist[/u]! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it!

Samira Kernher
Cail Avetatu
#64 - 2014-02-26 02:21:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Samira Kernher
Nauplius wrote:
Samira Kernher wrote:

And this is assuming that it is developing children that watch your video. Adult slaves, especially those recently captured, will have already solidified their beliefs about the world--and in the case of the recently enslaved, their hatred will be for their masters, not some alien-like being that they will never see (a being that is presented as an enemy of the people they actually hate, and therefore could be seen as a savior).

...

To properly break a slave, they must learn submissiveness. They must learn that they are sinful and weak. They must be taught that certain actions, words, and thoughts are unacceptable, and that this will be enforced without hesitation and without fail. They must learn the proper Code of Demeanor--to discipline their thoughts and emotions and conform to appropriate behavior. The last thing you want to teach a slave is aggression, because violent release teaches a slave that they are strong and can affect the world around them. Subduing their ability to affect the world around them, through violence or otherwise, teaches them of their own insignificance.

Slaves must be taught fear and helplessness, so that they recognize their limitations. Once they understand their own insignificance, they will learn to look to the Amarr and to God for love, guidance, support, and protection. From that will they find salvation.


In response to these criticisms by Pilot Kernher, I am making three minor modifications to the Two and a Half Minutes Hate:

  1. The Two and a Half Minutes Hate ritual will no longer be required for slaves in my short-term possession (primarily slaves obtained from jetcans as part of my Re-Enslavement operations against the Disciples of Ston/Molok; these slaves are resold to the Amarr Civil Service).
  2. The Two and a Half Minutes Hate ritual will not be required for slaves until they have been sufficiently "broken" that they are no longer thinking blatantly rebellious thoughts.
  3. Jovian effegies will be eliminated from the Two and a Half Minutes Hate. Slaves will thus no longer learn effectual violence, only impotent rage, as they are not able to damage the projected holograms; they will end the ritual exhausted but for the hope given by the soothing words and image of Jamyl Sarum.


This, I believe, answers the legitimate objections to the Two and a Half Minutes Hate. I do not accept that a holoreel presentation calibrated to encourage hatred of the Jove must invariably lead to generalized hatred, much less hatred of me or Amarrians. War Propaganda media has existed for millennia without such problems.


War propaganda capitalizes on the love one already has for their nation. Love that many slaves, especially those newly enslaved, do not yet have. War propaganda also typically attempts to encourage the viewer to find their inner strength and fight to protect their countrymen--something you do not want slaves to be doing, as you want them to look to the Amarr as strong protectors whom they can depend on, not as weak victims whom are easily defeated by their foes.

For point 2, I would not recommend the video to any newly enslaved individual, even after being broken, nor for the first two generations. The influences of their previous culture would counter any effect it would have, as they would not have developed a proper love of Amarr yet. The parents teach the children their beliefs, the children teach the grandchildren--a few generations need to pass for the original beliefs to get diluted and abandoned.

Additionally, as it is a lie, any slave that knows the truth can teach the others, which could cause it to backfire and make them to develop hatred of the Amarr for the deception--this is the big threat with telling lies, they only work in a vacuum where they cannot be countered by other influences. They can quickly turn against you once the truth is revealed. Therefore, I still recommend giving the truth. While more difficult to apply in an appropriate manner, it has a stronger foundation and so cannot be as easily broken. If the slaves have been properly taught then they will recognize the righteousness of the Reclaiming and the need to conquer the Jovians. All who turned from God have committed a grave sin and need to be Reclaimed, as commanded by God. Teach your charges of the failings of the Jove, of their willingness to put their own material desires above all else, above God, and how this is destroying their society. If your slaves are properly of the faith, then they will will build on this foundation themselves.
Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#65 - 2014-02-26 02:45:57 UTC
Irrespective of the specifics in the OP, why would one limit oneself to two and a half minutes of hate? Every day I thank God Almighty for giving everyone else so much, and me so very little. Numerous times per day I am given cause to hate so very many people that I haven't time to list them all. And you want me to limit my hate to two and a half minutes?

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn

Nauplius
Hoi Andrapodistai
#66 - 2014-02-26 03:17:48 UTC
Samira Kernher wrote:

Additionally, as it is a lie, any slave that knows the truth can teach the others, which could cause it to backfire and make them to develop hatred of the Amarr for the deception--this is the big threat with telling lies, they only work in a vacuum where they cannot be countered by other influences. They can quickly turn against you once the truth is revealed. Therefore, I still recommend giving the truth. While more difficult to apply in an appropriate manner, it has a stronger foundation and so cannot be as easily broken. If the slaves have been properly taught then they will recognize the righteousness of the Reclaiming and the need to conquer the Jovians. All who turned from God have committed a grave sin and need to be Reclaimed, as commanded by God. Teach your charges of the failings of the Jove, of their willingness to put their own material desires above all else, above God, and how this is destroying their society. If your slaves are properly of the faith, then they will will build on this foundation themselves.


The difference between me and many of my critics is that I recognize the full power of Vitoc, collars, and now TCMCs to radically rewrite a slave's personality. I openly and shamelessly employ these technologies to the full potential, recognizing that is is now possible to make rebellion, deviance, and sin a thing of the past. It will simply never occur to my slaves that my Two and a Half Minutes Hate holoreel is anything other than Scripture truth. Should anyone tell my slaves otherwise, they will know — not think, know — that that person is trying to hurt them.

Why take generations to build a foundation of righteousness when we can just program, drug, and condition that righteousness into them?


Saya Ishikari
Ishukone-Raata Technological Research Institute
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#67 - 2014-02-26 03:18:12 UTC
So, this is what desperation and delusion breed when the two meet.

"At the end of it all, we have only what we've left in our wake to be remembered by." -Kyoko Ishikari, YC 95 - YC 117

Simon Louvaki
Khaldari InnoTektoniks and Analytical Solutions
#68 - 2014-02-26 03:41:06 UTC
Nauplius wrote:

Why take generations to build a foundation of righteousness when we can just program, drug, and condition that righteousness into them?



Simple. Because you cant, and you cant prove it. Lip service to appease their master and ease the addiction is not Faith.

-- "The weak of mind are quick to judge with slightest tempt; Thus fools go forth to spread false word." - The Scriptures, Book of Trials 2:13 - 2:21

--"At the narrow passage, there is no brother and no friend." - Hyasyoda Proverb

Saya Ishikari
Ishukone-Raata Technological Research Institute
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#69 - 2014-02-26 04:01:23 UTC
Nauplius wrote:
Samira Kernher wrote:

Additionally, as it is a lie, any slave that knows the truth can teach the others, which could cause it to backfire and make them to develop hatred of the Amarr for the deception--this is the big threat with telling lies, they only work in a vacuum where they cannot be countered by other influences. They can quickly turn against you once the truth is revealed. Therefore, I still recommend giving the truth. While more difficult to apply in an appropriate manner, it has a stronger foundation and so cannot be as easily broken. If the slaves have been properly taught then they will recognize the righteousness of the Reclaiming and the need to conquer the Jovians. All who turned from God have committed a grave sin and need to be Reclaimed, as commanded by God. Teach your charges of the failings of the Jove, of their willingness to put their own material desires above all else, above God, and how this is destroying their society. If your slaves are properly of the faith, then they will will build on this foundation themselves.


The difference between me and many of my critics is that I recognize the full power of Vitoc, collars, and now TCMCs to radically rewrite a slave's personality. I openly and shamelessly employ these technologies to the full potential, recognizing that is is now possible to make rebellion, deviance, and sin a thing of the past. It will simply never occur to my slaves that my Two and a Half Minutes Hate holoreel is anything other than Scripture truth. Should anyone tell my slaves otherwise, they will know — not think, know — that that person is trying to hurt them.

Why take generations to build a foundation of righteousness when we can just program, drug, and condition that righteousness into them?



To answer more succinctly, from an unbiased view point, this sort of social control requires such delicate operation that it's largely impossible outside of very small, highly isolated, carefully monitored groups. And even then, it never lasts beyond exposure to outside influence. I know, my creche was such a group. Fear is temporary, and quickly overcome by innate curiosity, particularly when they discover that the real Scripture is not what they've been led to believe it is. Your method relies on brute force to achieve results where a far more subtle approach is required. And even with the subtle touch, failure is all but inevitable. You already know this, else you would not be relying on such a clearly panic driven framework.

Of course, all of this presupposes that you're teaching them to be loyal to the Empire. If not, then the problem will sort itself out when Amarr at large learns of this deliberate effort at treason.

"At the end of it all, we have only what we've left in our wake to be remembered by." -Kyoko Ishikari, YC 95 - YC 117

Samira Kernher
Cail Avetatu
#70 - 2014-02-26 05:29:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Samira Kernher
Nauplius wrote:
Why take generations to build a foundation of righteousness when we can just program, drug, and condition that righteousness into them?


Because this teaches nothing. It is impatience on the part of the owner and ensures no true spiritual development for the slave. Molok tempts the faithful with the easy path, encouraging us to abandon what is right because it is longer or more difficult. But only the strongest conviction will open the gates of paradise--not lip service.


"Only through many hardships
Is a man stripped to his very foundations
And in such a state
Devoid of distractions
Is his soul free to soar
And in this
He is closest to God"
- The Scriptures, Book of Missions 42:5


This passage applies as much to Holders as it does to slaves. All of us must prove ourselves worthy of God's love.

The traditional methods of slave control are the best. Direct religious teaching over generations by the faithful, and simple punitive methods, like collars or the lash, which discourage poor behavior while still leaving room for free will, so that the slave must make the conscious choice to embrace God. Vitoxin and TCMCs ensure only lip service rather than true devotion. This is why TCMCs especially are strictly banned in House Ardishapur territories, for his lordship the Heir Ardishapur understands that we must do things the right way rather than the easy way.
Saya Ishikari
Ishukone-Raata Technological Research Institute
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#71 - 2014-02-26 05:50:50 UTC
Samira Kernher wrote:
Nauplius wrote:
Why take generations to build a foundation of righteousness when we can just program, drug, and condition that righteousness into them?


Because this teaches nothing. It is impatience on the part of the owner and ensures no true spiritual development for the slave. Molok tempts the faithful with the easy path, encouraging us to abandon what is right because it is longer or more difficult. But only the strongest conviction will open the gates of paradise--not lip service.


"Only through many hardships
Is a man stripped to his very foundations
And in such a state
Devoid of distractions
Is his soul free to soar
And in this
He is closest to God"
- The Scriptures, Book of Missions 42:5


This passage applies as much to Holders as it does to slaves. All of us must prove ourselves worthy of God's love.

The traditional methods of slave control are the best. Direct religious teaching over generations by the faithful, and simple punitive methods, like collars or the lash, which discourage poor behavior while still leaving room for free will, so that the slave must make the conscious choice to embrace God. Vitoxin and TCMCs ensure only lip service rather than true devotion. This is why TCMCs especially are strictly banned in House Ardishapur territories, for his lordship the Heir Ardishapur understands that we must do things the right way rather than the easy way. It is a shame that the honorable Theology Council has chosen not to make an Empire-wide ban.

I may not buy into the belief, but I have to hand it to you, Kehrner. Sometimes, I can't help but be impressed.

"At the end of it all, we have only what we've left in our wake to be remembered by." -Kyoko Ishikari, YC 95 - YC 117

Anabella Rella
Gradient
Electus Matari
#72 - 2014-02-26 06:30:37 UTC
Nauplius every time I think you can't get any worse you prove me wrong. You've passed through madness into a whole new territory of depraved inhumane behavior for which there is no name. Gods and spirits man, when a serial murderer the likes of Leopold Caine calls you out for being immoral you've got to know you're in the wrong.

I think that I'll have your words inscribed onto plaques and have them installed in conspicuous places aboard every one of my ships and hangar facilities to remind everyone why your "reclaiming" can't be allowed to continue and the mentality of imperial zealots.

When the world is running down, you make the best of what's still around.

Shiori Shaishi
Doomheim
#73 - 2014-02-26 11:43:44 UTC
My only point of curiosity is what scale hatred towards the Jove is measured on.
Nauplius
Hoi Andrapodistai
#74 - 2014-02-26 12:54:00 UTC
Samira Kernher wrote:
Nauplius wrote:
Why take generations to build a foundation of righteousness when we can just program, drug, and condition that righteousness into them?


Because this teaches nothing. It is impatience on the part of the owner and ensures no true spiritual development for the slave. Molok tempts the faithful with the easy path, encouraging us to abandon what is right because it is longer or more difficult. But only the strongest conviction will open the gates of paradise--not lip service.


"Only through many hardships
Is a man stripped to his very foundations
And in such a state
Devoid of distractions
Is his soul free to soar
And in this
He is closest to God"
- The Scriptures, Book of Missions 42:5


This passage applies as much to Holders as it does to slaves. All of us must prove ourselves worthy of God's love.

The traditional methods of slave control are the best. Direct religious teaching over generations by the faithful, and simple punitive methods, like collars or the lash, which discourage poor behavior while still leaving room for free will, so that the slave must make the conscious choice to embrace God. Vitoxin and TCMCs ensure only lip service rather than true devotion. This is why TCMCs especially are strictly banned in House Ardishapur territories, for his lordship the Heir Ardishapur understands that we must do things the right way rather than the easy way.


I accept this Scripture like I accept all Scriptures. And I commend you for locating what might be the best case for free will found in the Scriptures. But it is a weak case. Note the very passive nature of the construction: the soul is free to soar. There is no conscious, active personality directing the soul directing the soul in this passage.

Of course, on my anti-free will side I have a Scripture case as well:
"Be Watchful. Free Thought is the Begetter of Disorder.
Be Respectful. Uniform Thought is the Way of Life."
- The Scriptures, Book I, The Code of Demeanor

I do of course accept the necessity of suffering for salvation of the non-Chosen. And my slaves do suffer.
Nauplius
Hoi Andrapodistai
#75 - 2014-02-26 13:01:26 UTC
Anabella Rella wrote:
Nauplius every time I think you can't get any worse you prove me wrong. You've passed through madness into a whole new territory of depraved inhumane behavior for which there is no name. Gods and spirits man, when a serial murderer the likes of Leopold Caine calls you out for being immoral you've got to know you're in the wrong.

I think that I'll have your words inscribed onto plaques and have them installed in conspicuous places aboard every one of my ships and hangar facilities to remind everyone why your "reclaiming" can't be allowed to continue and the mentality of imperial zealots.



Literally one second after you descend into Hell, so great will be your torment that you shall cry out, "Why did I not listen to that preacher Nauplius sent by God to warn me of the End of Things and salvation through service to God's Chosen, the holy Amarr Empire? Why did I not take the collar and the lash and the Vitoc?" And your words shall waft on the smoke of your torment and reach Paradise, and we shall hear them without a shred of sadness, and we shall say, "How just are your ways, O God." Amen. Amarr Victor.
Nauplius
Hoi Andrapodistai
#76 - 2014-02-26 13:06:03 UTC
Shiori Shaishi wrote:
My only point of curiosity is what scale hatred towards the Jove is measured on.


Simple binary yes/no answer to the question, "Do you hate the Jove?" The number of respondents answering Yes was up 20%.
Nauplius
Hoi Andrapodistai
#77 - 2014-02-26 13:07:51 UTC
Simon Louvaki wrote:
Nauplius wrote:

Why take generations to build a foundation of righteousness when we can just program, drug, and condition that righteousness into them?



Simple. Because you cant, and you cant prove it. Lip service to appease their master and ease the addiction is not Faith.


I do not believe that you understand the full power of modern Vitoc and TCMCs. The era of resistance to authority is coming to an end, praise God.
Nauplius
Hoi Andrapodistai
#78 - 2014-02-26 13:17:50 UTC
Saya Ishikari wrote:

To answer more succinctly, from an unbiased view point, this sort of social control requires such delicate operation that it's largely impossible outside of very small, highly isolated, carefully monitored groups. And even then, it never lasts beyond exposure to outside influence. I know, my creche was such a group. Fear is temporary, and quickly overcome by innate curiosity, particularly when they discover that the real Scripture is not what they've been led to believe it is. Your method relies on brute force to achieve results where a far more subtle approach is required. And even with the subtle touch, failure is all but inevitable. You already know this, else you would not be relying on such a clearly panic driven framework.

Of course, all of this presupposes that you're teaching them to be loyal to the Empire. If not, then the problem will sort itself out when Amarr at large learns of this deliberate effort at treason.


Fear may be temporary (although I tend to think fear has permanent effects). But Vitoc lasts forever.

Simon Louvaki
Khaldari InnoTektoniks and Analytical Solutions
#79 - 2014-02-26 14:14:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Simon Louvaki
Nauplius wrote:
Simon Louvaki wrote:
Nauplius wrote:

Why take generations to build a foundation of righteousness when we can just program, drug, and condition that righteousness into them?



Simple. Because you cant, and you cant prove it. Lip service to appease their master and ease the addiction is not Faith.


I do not believe that you understand the full power of modern Vitoc and TCMCs. The era of resistance to authority is coming to an end, praise God.


I think youll find it very difficult to prove that those under your charge have actually been touched by Faith. The Scriptures put empahsis on ones ability to recognize the Faith when it presents itself, and that requires some degree of free will. If failure to recognize the Faith should bring the wrath of God, then woe to soul who is reaponsible for ones inability to recognize it.

On a seperate note, Vitoc is destructive to the person it is used upon. Unless you have a ready supply of the antidote laying around you are effectively posioning and condeming your new brothers in faith to a life of cripling addiction and liable death.

-- "The weak of mind are quick to judge with slightest tempt; Thus fools go forth to spread false word." - The Scriptures, Book of Trials 2:13 - 2:21

--"At the narrow passage, there is no brother and no friend." - Hyasyoda Proverb

Brock Yevikaan
#80 - 2014-02-26 14:26:49 UTC
Why people continue to pay attention to your maundering blather is beyond me.