These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Intergalactic Summit

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

The Two and a Half Minutes Hate: Birth of a Ritual
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Vulxanis Viceroy
Vicarius Vitae
Khimi Harar
#41 - 2014-02-25 23:23:39 UTC
Apollo Lyserius wrote:
I don't consider myself in position to directly judge any cultural aspect of a foreign society.


Quite a wise perspective. I commend you for having such an open mind. Many Gallente claim to have it, but few truly do.

Apollo Lyserius wrote:
While in my state, in my society, I will fight actively for my principles, I also don't believe it is right to interfere in the matters of other states or societies - I don't want them interfering in mine.


I concur, thus why I stand up for my methods.

Apollo Lyserius wrote:
Besides, how can I demand that someone who was born, raised and educated in a society that is ok with slavery to think otherwise? Though some Amarr do indeed think different, they are exceptional. You cannot demand the average Amarr to drift away from his society's morals and doctrine.


But many do, which is why so much hatred is directed at the Amarr when they do not denounce their positions. That is why I simply do not care anymore about the opinion of others outside the empire if they disagree. I answer to God and his servant, the Empress, in my dealings with my household, and I take that responsibility very seriously.

Apollo Lyserius wrote:
That said, the reason why his modus operandi restores my faith in humanity is because despite our huge cultural differences - despite our differences in education, raising, social and economic status - the only human right we don't share seems to be that of freedom. That is slightly different from saying I'm ok with it.


There are huge misconceptions as to what "slavery" actually is outside, and even in, the Amarr Empire. The IGS is too open a place to explain all the specifics due to the fact that literally everything you say is game for scrutiny and misrepresentation. If you would like to inquire you are more than welcome to message me privately.

Apollo Lyserius wrote:
I did not approve of anything.


And I do not require your approval.

In Character: Only responds to "Lord Draconis"

Pronounced "Vulzanis"

Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/4fanm8/eve_in_a_nutshell_and_how_to_crack_it/

Public channel: VXV EVE

Twitter: https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Vulxanis_Viceroy
Claudia Osyn
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#42 - 2014-02-25 23:40:03 UTC
ALL HAIL THE JOVE!!!

A little trust goes a long way. The less you use, the further you'll go.
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#43 - 2014-02-25 23:42:52 UTC
I am still wondering how such an obvious Blood Raider managed to con his way into the 24th? Roll

http://youtu.be/t0q2F8NsYQ0
Vulxanis Viceroy
Vicarius Vitae
Khimi Harar
#44 - 2014-02-25 23:44:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Vulxanis Viceroy
Samira Kernher wrote:
Vulxanis Viceroy wrote:
"Slavers" are illegal.


With all due respect, milord, no they are not.


Perhaps I was wrong on a legal technicality. I apologize for my inaccuracy, I have just now clarified.

However, It does not take away from my point. Simply ignore that specification.

Also, Lieutenant, corrections and presentation of evidence in private, so that edits can be made, rather than denouncement on a public forum, would have been the proper way to inform me. Please keep that in mind for the future and do not do this again.

In Character: Only responds to "Lord Draconis"

Pronounced "Vulzanis"

Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/4fanm8/eve_in_a_nutshell_and_how_to_crack_it/

Public channel: VXV EVE

Twitter: https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Vulxanis_Viceroy
Fredfredbug4
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#45 - 2014-02-25 23:49:35 UTC
Unless you can find a piece of scripture that says "Lying to lower social classes is okay" then I suggest that you arrange a date with your priest for confession, or else no heaven for you.

Watch_ Fred Fred Frederation_ and stop [u]cryptozoologist[/u]! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it!
Vulxanis Viceroy
Vicarius Vitae
Khimi Harar
#46 - 2014-02-25 23:50:27 UTC
Fredfredbug4 wrote:
Unless you can find a piece of scripture that says "Lying to lower social classes is okay" then I suggest that you arrange a date with your priest for confession, or else no heaven for you.


To whom is that directed? I do not lie to my charges.

In Character: Only responds to "Lord Draconis"

Pronounced "Vulzanis"

Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/4fanm8/eve_in_a_nutshell_and_how_to_crack_it/

Public channel: VXV EVE

Twitter: https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Vulxanis_Viceroy
Fredfredbug4
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#47 - 2014-02-25 23:54:02 UTC
Vulxanis Viceroy wrote:
Fredfredbug4 wrote:
Unless you can find a piece of scripture that says "Lying to lower social classes is okay" then I suggest that you arrange a date with your priest for confession, or else no heaven for you.


To whom is that directed? I do not lie to my charges.


Apologies for the ambiguity. That was directed to Nauplius.

Watch_ Fred Fred Frederation_ and stop [u]cryptozoologist[/u]! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it!
Nauplius
Hoi Andrapodistai
#48 - 2014-02-25 23:55:13 UTC
Fredfredbug4 wrote:
Unless you can find a piece of scripture that says "Lying to lower social classes is okay" then I suggest that you arrange a date with your priest for confession, or else no heaven for you.


I addressed this point on the first page. Teaching slaves a version of reality that is somewhat...different than what is taught to higher classes is nothing less that a standard feature of Amarrian slave control. Take it up with the Theology Council.
Vulxanis Viceroy
Vicarius Vitae
Khimi Harar
#49 - 2014-02-25 23:57:32 UTC
Nauplius wrote:
Fredfredbug4 wrote:
Unless you can find a piece of scripture that says "Lying to lower social classes is okay" then I suggest that you arrange a date with your priest for confession, or else no heaven for you.


I addressed this point on the first page. Teaching slaves a version of reality that is somewhat...different than what is taught to higher classes is nothing less that a standard feature of Amarrian slave control. Take it up with the Theology Council.


I have. I also find it interesting that you have chosen not to respond directly to me.

I shall certainly have to have a talk with your superiors in the near future.

In Character: Only responds to "Lord Draconis"

Pronounced "Vulzanis"

Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/4fanm8/eve_in_a_nutshell_and_how_to_crack_it/

Public channel: VXV EVE

Twitter: https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Vulxanis_Viceroy
Gosakumori Noh
Coven of One
#50 - 2014-02-26 00:10:56 UTC
Vulxanis Viceroy wrote:

I have. I also find it interesting that you have chosen not to respond directly to me.


He responded to the person who responded to him, you tedious little twit. Perhaps you should bring that up with these so-called "superiors" as well.
Claudia Osyn
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#51 - 2014-02-26 00:14:25 UTC
Vulxanis Viceroy wrote:
Nauplius wrote:
Fredfredbug4 wrote:
Unless you can find a piece of scripture that says "Lying to lower social classes is okay" then I suggest that you arrange a date with your priest for confession, or else no heaven for you.


I addressed this point on the first page. Teaching slaves a version of reality that is somewhat...different than what is taught to higher classes is nothing less that a standard feature of Amarrian slave control. Take it up with the Theology Council.


I have. I also find it interesting that you have chosen not to respond directly to me.

I shall certainly have to have a talk with your superiors in the near future.

He's scared of you. What with your "logical thought" and "ability to reason", he doesn't understand it.Smile

A little trust goes a long way. The less you use, the further you'll go.
Vulxanis Viceroy
Vicarius Vitae
Khimi Harar
#52 - 2014-02-26 00:19:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Vulxanis Viceroy
Claudia Osyn wrote:
Vulxanis Viceroy wrote:
Nauplius wrote:
Fredfredbug4 wrote:
Unless you can find a piece of scripture that says "Lying to lower social classes is okay" then I suggest that you arrange a date with your priest for confession, or else no heaven for you.


I addressed this point on the first page. Teaching slaves a version of reality that is somewhat...different than what is taught to higher classes is nothing less that a standard feature of Amarrian slave control. Take it up with the Theology Council.


I have. I also find it interesting that you have chosen not to respond directly to me.

I shall certainly have to have a talk with your superiors in the near future.

He's scared of you. What with your "logical thought" and "ability to reason", he doesn't understand it.Smile


Whether you mean that as an insult or not, as the quotations indicate the possibility you are being sarcastic, you are likely right.

In Character: Only responds to "Lord Draconis"

Pronounced "Vulzanis"

Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/4fanm8/eve_in_a_nutshell_and_how_to_crack_it/

Public channel: VXV EVE

Twitter: https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Vulxanis_Viceroy
Nauplius
Hoi Andrapodistai
#53 - 2014-02-26 00:20:51 UTC
Samira Kernher wrote:

And this is assuming that it is developing children that watch your video. Adult slaves, especially those recently captured, will have already solidified their beliefs about the world--and in the case of the recently enslaved, their hatred will be for their masters, not some alien-like being that they will never see (a being that is presented as an enemy of the people they actually hate, and therefore could be seen as a savior).

...

To properly break a slave, they must learn submissiveness. They must learn that they are sinful and weak. They must be taught that certain actions, words, and thoughts are unacceptable, and that this will be enforced without hesitation and without fail. They must learn the proper Code of Demeanor--to discipline their thoughts and emotions and conform to appropriate behavior. The last thing you want to teach a slave is aggression, because violent release teaches a slave that they are strong and can affect the world around them. Subduing their ability to affect the world around them, through violence or otherwise, teaches them of their own insignificance.

Slaves must be taught fear and helplessness, so that they recognize their limitations. Once they understand their own insignificance, they will learn to look to the Amarr and to God for love, guidance, support, and protection. From that will they find salvation.


In response to these criticisms by Pilot Kernher, I am making three minor modifications to the Two and a Half Minutes Hate:

  1. The Two and a Half Minutes Hate ritual will no longer be required for slaves in my short-term possession (primarily slaves obtained from jetcans as part of my Re-Enslavement operations against the Disciples of Ston/Molok; these slaves are resold to the Amarr Civil Service).
  2. The Two and a Half Minutes Hate ritual will not be required for slaves until they have been sufficiently "broken" that they are no longer thinking blatantly rebellious thoughts.
  3. Jovian effegies will be eliminated from the Two and a Half Minutes Hate. Slaves will thus no longer learn effectual violence, only impotent rage, as they are not able to damage the projected holograms; they will end the ritual exhausted but for the hope given by the soothing words and image of Jamyl Sarum.


This, I believe, answers the legitimate objections to the Two and a Half Minutes Hate. I do not accept that a holoreel presentation calibrated to encourage hatred of the Jove must invariably lead to generalized hatred, much less hatred of me or Amarrians. War Propaganda media has existed for millennia without such problems.

I thank Pilot Kernher for her assistance in developing the Two and a Half Minutes Hate. Amen. Amarr Victor.
Vulxanis Viceroy
Vicarius Vitae
Khimi Harar
#54 - 2014-02-26 00:22:29 UTC
Nauplius wrote:
Samira Kernher wrote:

And this is assuming that it is developing children that watch your video. Adult slaves, especially those recently captured, will have already solidified their beliefs about the world--and in the case of the recently enslaved, their hatred will be for their masters, not some alien-like being that they will never see (a being that is presented as an enemy of the people they actually hate, and therefore could be seen as a savior).

...

To properly break a slave, they must learn submissiveness. They must learn that they are sinful and weak. They must be taught that certain actions, words, and thoughts are unacceptable, and that this will be enforced without hesitation and without fail. They must learn the proper Code of Demeanor--to discipline their thoughts and emotions and conform to appropriate behavior. The last thing you want to teach a slave is aggression, because violent release teaches a slave that they are strong and can affect the world around them. Subduing their ability to affect the world around them, through violence or otherwise, teaches them of their own insignificance.

Slaves must be taught fear and helplessness, so that they recognize their limitations. Once they understand their own insignificance, they will learn to look to the Amarr and to God for love, guidance, support, and protection. From that will they find salvation.


In response to these criticisms by Pilot Kernher, I am making three minor modifications to the Two and a Half Minutes Hate:

  1. The Two and a Half Minutes Hate ritual will no longer be required for slaves in my short-term possession (primarily slaves obtained from jetcans as part of my Re-Enslavement operations against the Disciples of Ston/Molok; these slaves are resold to the Amarr Civil Service).
  2. The Two and a Half Minutes Hate ritual will not be required for slaves until they have been sufficiently "broken" that they are no longer thinking blatantly rebellious thoughts.
  3. Jovian effegies will be eliminated from the Two and a Half Minutes Hate. Slaves will thus no longer learn effectual violence, only impotent rage, as they are not able to damage the projected holograms; they will end the ritual exhausted but for the hope given by the soothing words and image of Jamyl Sarum.


This, I believe, answers the legitimate objections to the Two and a Half Minutes Hate. I do not accept that a holoreel presentation calibrated to encourage hatred of the Jove must invariably lead to generalized hatred, much less hatred of me or Amarrians. War Propaganda media has existed for millennia without such problems.

I thank Pilot Kernher for her assistance in developing the Two and a Half Minutes Hate. Amen. Amarr Victor.



Your modifications do not include the correct ones. Such as removal of any form of the method entirely.

In Character: Only responds to "Lord Draconis"

Pronounced "Vulzanis"

Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/4fanm8/eve_in_a_nutshell_and_how_to_crack_it/

Public channel: VXV EVE

Twitter: https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Vulxanis_Viceroy
Samira Kernher
Cail Avetatu
#55 - 2014-02-26 00:23:40 UTC
Vulxanis Viceroy wrote:
Samira Kernher wrote:
Vulxanis Viceroy wrote:
"Slavers" are illegal.


With all due respect, milord, no they are not.


Perhaps I was wrong on a legal technicality. I apologize for my inaccuracy, I have just now clarified.

However, It does not take away from my point. Simply ignore that specification.

Also, Lieutenant, corrections and presentation of evidence in private, so that edits can be made, rather than denouncement on a public forum, would have been the proper way to inform me. Please keep that in mind for the future and do not do this again.


I apologize, milord.
Pontianak Sythaeryn
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#56 - 2014-02-26 00:24:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Pontianak Sythaeryn
Gosakumori Noh wrote:
Vulxanis Viceroy wrote:

I have. I also find it interesting that you have chosen not to respond directly to me.


He responded to the person who responded to him, you tedious little twit. Perhaps you should bring that up with these so-called "superiors" as well.


He never responded to something Lord Draconis said earlier. I also remember asking him a question some time ago that he also ignored. To be honest, I believe Nauplius simply often ignores his opponents, and only responds to people if he feels he can't get away without responding.

Sometimes people are looking for responses without asking a question after all. Basic human interaction really.
Vulxanis Viceroy
Vicarius Vitae
Khimi Harar
#57 - 2014-02-26 00:29:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Vulxanis Viceroy
Pontianak Sythaeryn wrote:
Gosakumori Noh wrote:
Vulxanis Viceroy wrote:

I have. I also find it interesting that you have chosen not to respond directly to me.


He responded to the person who responded to him, you tedious little twit. Perhaps you should bring that up with these so-called "superiors" as well.


He never responded to something Lord Draconis said earlier. I also remember asking him a question some time ago that he also ignored. To be honest, I believe Nauplius simply often ignores his opponents, and only responds to people if he feels he can't get away without responding. Sometimes people are looking for responses without asking a question after all. Basic human interaction really.


Yes, that is likely. Why else would he dare ignore a Holder?

I chose not to respond to this Gosakumori Noh woman because she is a heretic, and is well known for fraternizing with blood raiders, among other things. She is simply not worth my time.

In Character: Only responds to "Lord Draconis"

Pronounced "Vulzanis"

Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/4fanm8/eve_in_a_nutshell_and_how_to_crack_it/

Public channel: VXV EVE

Twitter: https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Vulxanis_Viceroy
Apollo Lyserius
Minerva Technologies
#58 - 2014-02-26 00:35:12 UTC
Pontianak Sythaeryn wrote:

The only reason the Khanid don't currently conduct raids on the Federation is because they are afraid Concord will blow them out of the sky. Before Concord was formed, they regularly conducted raids on our territories to acquire slaves. This isn't exactly a society that respects other states or societies cultures. The Amarr honestly see it as their god given right to enslave everybody as I understand it. The only reason they aren't trying to invade now is because between other empires AND Concord, they know they would get their teeth kicked in for trying.


You point other states' unlawful conducts. And their motives for not proceeding with such unlawful conducts. And it is exactly because those conducts are unlawful, unjust and undue that we should abstain from doing the same. i.e., the fact that their behaviour is wrongful not only does not give us the right to act wrongfully as it also is the reason why we won't do so. But I do understand your motives, Miss, and I won't condemn you in any way for fighting for freedom. Just try not to impose anything.

While they believe in divine right, we believe in our constitution. While theirs is the rule of God and the Empress, ours is the Rule of Law. We should and will act differently concerning the same matters.

Quote:
As for your demanding that "someone who was born, raised and educated in a society that is ok" that it isn't right to make them think otherwise... why not see this from the slaves point of view. Slaves are unwillingly being slaves Sir, and other than the Vitoc pumped ones, all the slaves I freed were immensely grateful. The Vitoc pumped ones? Well, they turned around after they found out we had medical treatments that kept the sickness at bay.


I do try to see this from the point of view of a slave. That's why I believe we should receive with open arms any fugitive slaves who enter our territory and should not sign any treaties binding us to do otherwise. I don't condemn individuals fighting for slave freedom, specially when they're supporting rebellious slaves. I just believe such fight should not be started or undertaken by another state, specially the Federation. Not while we're not in open war, at least. Do you get me? This is a delicate matter.
Nauplius
Hoi Andrapodistai
#59 - 2014-02-26 00:39:25 UTC
Vulxanis Viceroy wrote:

I have. I also find it interesting that you have chosen not to respond directly to me.

I shall certainly have to have a talk with your superiors in the near future.


My apologies, Lord Draconis; please take the fact that I chose to respond to Pilot Kernher first as a mark of respect to the PIE corporation and not as a disrespect towards Your Lordship.

That said, I respectfully disagree on the subject of slave control ethics. As I have said several times:

Quote:

God demands obedience. Whether that obedience be willing is irrelevant.
Simon Louvaki
Khaldari InnoTektoniks and Analytical Solutions
#60 - 2014-02-26 00:53:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Simon Louvaki
God does not merely want obedience Nauplius. The Scriptures speak of Faith, and becoming closer with God. Unless those under your charge truely accept the Faith then you have failed in your duty to God and have done nothimg but comitte atrocity against your fellow man and potential brother. For thos reason alone your brand of force can never succed amd the Cluster will never unite under Amarr.

-- "The weak of mind are quick to judge with slightest tempt; Thus fools go forth to spread false word." - The Scriptures, Book of Trials 2:13 - 2:21

--"At the narrow passage, there is no brother and no friend." - Hyasyoda Proverb