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[Kronos] Pirate Faction Frigates

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Dun'Gal
Myriad Contractors Inc.
#1581 - 2014-05-21 07:43:42 UTC
Well better late than never, something had to give on the Cruor, and while I'm not completely satisfied with the change, I guess beggars can't be choosers (it's better than what was initially proposed.) At least everyone going blue in the face trying to get it looked at again, weren't doing it for nothing.
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#1582 - 2014-05-21 09:00:52 UTC
Does this mean you're giving up on locking yourself into arbitrary slot numbers? Because that would be great.

Could you now go and give the punisher this? Because it effectively has one slot less than other t1 frigates.. Utility highs are worth about 1/3rd of a normal slot on a frigate.

(Just want to close though by saying I CAN FLY MY CRUOR IN AN UNIRONIC WAY NOW! =D )

You don't often get me being happy about something, well done >_>

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Nagarythe Tinurandir
Einheit X-6
#1583 - 2014-05-21 09:28:47 UTC
Altrue wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:

We're also going to up the base PG from 50 to 57 and the base CPU from 140 to 150. Finally, to pay a little back for these improvements we're taking one drone away (from 10m3 to 5m3).


Its not entierly related, but I feel like there are two ways of considering drones for the game balance team.

  • On one side, ships with drone bays have a precisely crafted drone bay with precise volumes (see my quote above to illustrate how the drone bay was 10m3 - an odd number already- to 5m3 -even odder-). So on this side things looks cool and balanced. Yes its odd to see a ship with less than five drones, but on the other hand this one or two extra drone make a noticeable impact.

  • On the other side, you have ships (to quote a few : Garmur, Naga... even Eagle when compared to other HACs), with ZERO drone bay. Its straight, definitive... and bad?
    • Would these ships be so unbalanced with, say, 10/15m3 of brandwidth? Especially when other ships in their very same class have double or triple the amount of brandwidth without even being drone boats. I'd love to see more small drone bays on ships. Especially now that the drone gameplay and the choice it implies in terms of drone race, is getting better.

Any thoughts on that?


the zero drone bay is a way to introduce some weakness against smaller ships in case of the naga the inability to kill tackle once it gets close. to be honest i like it that way, because it allows for teamplay. ships with drone bays need less fitting effort to be "tackle safe"
during teiricide a lot of cruisers and bigger ships got their drone bays pimped or even gained drone bays. didn't like that.
i guess their were thought of as small nudges to put balance in place.
IMHO it would get super boring if every ship above cruiser size had a drone bay. some ships should just be more vulnerable to small ships than others.
Naomi Anthar
#1584 - 2014-05-21 15:03:08 UTC
Thanks for this ... i can see cruor being really super powerful ship, especially with bling in a-type noses and a-type reps.

and don't listen to this madman Truousedeagle ... guy hates cruor for no reason.

I mean i would sell all my cruors asap at buy order price - if they would announce 2 meds cruor.
I'm dead serious i would grab all money i can get for those ships asap, before price would go to level of maybe navy frigs at best.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#1585 - 2014-05-21 15:50:58 UTC
These changes on all the pirate frigates through battleships look great. Balanced yet unique an interesting. Really great work.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
VanHellin Krovchenko
The Vikings of Valhalla
Exodus.
#1586 - 2014-05-23 14:40:19 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:

Role Bonus:
100% bonus to Small Energy Turret damage
note: Energy Vampires operate as though your capacitor is empty (this wording is work in progress)


May I suggest:

"Role bonus to Energy Vampires to operate in Continuous Capacitor Replenishment mode." - something along those lines...

Better than current, and way better than the "infinite cap drain" as previously mentioned in another post.
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#1587 - 2014-05-23 14:55:33 UTC
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
Does this mean you're giving up on locking yourself into arbitrary slot numbers? Because that would be great.

Could you now go and give the punisher this? Because it effectively has one slot less than other t1 frigates.. Utility highs are worth about 1/3rd of a normal slot on a frigate.

(Just want to close though by saying I CAN FLY MY CRUOR IN AN UNIRONIC WAY NOW! =D )

You don't often get me being happy about something, well done >_>


there's also the issue of ships with double bonuses for no reason, and varying numbers of weapon hardpoints, and dronebays as well. so yeah, equal slot numbers is pretty much never a good way to balance if these other things are around.
Sheimi Madaveda
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1588 - 2014-05-23 22:56:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Sheimi Madaveda
Just tried the Cruor on Sisi, I feel like it's a dedicated fast frigate hunter lot better at fighting kiters in a few ways. 26km heated unlinked web and greater speed makes slingshotting extremely easy, and then you can slap a scram onto them in short order. You can still pulse your MWD but they won't be able to, solving the issue of range dictation. Capacitor is strong enough with Nos to support dual rep, so you will tank kiter DPS extremely well.

What isn't super fast and kitey and would beat you into the floor (Worm/Ishkur etc) can be kept at bay because... 20km web...

*Snip* look at the post below to see what was quoted here. Basically, the FN web is not required anymore.

Arma Purgatorium - Once for the State, Now for the King Low Sec, PvP, Industrial - Open for Recruiting http://armapurgatorium.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/arpur_recruit1.png 
Dun'Gal
Myriad Contractors Inc.
#1589 - 2014-05-24 08:17:25 UTC
Sheimi Madaveda wrote:
Just tried the Cruor on Sisi, I feel like it's a dedicated fast frigate hunter in a few ways. 26km heated unlinked web and greater speed makes slingshotting extremely easy, and then you can slap a scram onto them in short order. You can still pulse your MWD but they won't be able to, solving the issue of range dictation. Capacitor is strong enough with Nos to support dual rep, so you will tank kiter DPS extremely well.

What isn't super fast and kitey and would beat you into the floor can be kept at bay because... 20km web...

The Cruor isn't particularly strong yet (tracking is still crap!) but it at least doesn't die to random kiters if you aren't willing to shell out ISK for a FN web.


Soooo basically what you are saying is, it's only good against tankless kiters (which with half a brain are going to avoid you like the plague anyway,) otherwise it should just avoid everything else... sounds like it's going to be in a good placeRoll
Sheimi Madaveda
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1590 - 2014-05-24 08:52:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Sheimi Madaveda
Dun'Gal wrote:

Soooo basically what you are saying is, it's only good against tankless kiters (which with half a brain are going to avoid you like the plague anyway,) otherwise it should just avoid everything else... sounds like it's going to be in a good placeRoll


First off, what you say is true of basically every shiny ship ever manufactured. It is why t2 frigs have a harder time finding fights in low sec compared to t1 frigs.

Additionally, this is what I said:

Sheimi Madaveda wrote:

The Cruor isn't particularly strong yet but it at least doesn't die to random kiters.


I was stupid, and wrong. My faith was put to the test by what is now a wreck of a Daredevil. Also, a brainy Garmur pilot gave me a run for my money. Man, those Garmur pilots before that one were super bad. Like... you don't even want to know.


This was the fit I used:

[Cruor, Grudge]
Damage Control II
Small Armor Repairer II
Small Armor Repairer II
Adaptive Nano Plating II

Limited 1MN Microwarpdrive I
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I

Small Focused Pulse Laser II
Small Focused Pulse Laser II
Small Diminishing Power System Drain I
Small Diminishing Power System Drain I

Small Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Small Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Small Anti-Explosive Pump I

After testing it a bit further, I'd like to change a few things -

It DOES work against brawlers and is quite potent. 162 DPS tank OH'ing both t2 reps with no links or fanciness. I managed to kill a Daredevil and only barely dipped into structure until he was capped out.

I'd pimp it with a-type nos for the range since you can't really dictate it inside of scram range vs many brawlers, then deadspace reps for OH and better tank.

Anci rep is a good choice if you're poor.

Obviously, enemies like Hawk present a problem. If you fight an enemy with buffer tank, ab/web/scram + capless damage, you tend to just cap it out and warp off before it kills you.

Arma Purgatorium - Once for the State, Now for the King Low Sec, PvP, Industrial - Open for Recruiting http://armapurgatorium.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/arpur_recruit1.png 
Dun'Gal
Myriad Contractors Inc.
#1591 - 2014-05-24 09:00:32 UTC
Well that is good to hear I suppose, I do have faith that with the recent changes it will do ok, but judging from your initial test descriptions I had lost some of that faith. So, faith.... somewhat restord(ish.)
W0lf Crendraven
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#1592 - 2014-05-24 11:17:13 UTC
Id like to call for now that the succubus is going to be retardedly broken, both in fleet roles with a 10mn fit as well as a solo roamer with a 1mn ab.
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#1593 - 2014-05-24 11:49:29 UTC
W0lf Crendraven wrote:
Id like to call for now that the succubus is going to be retardedly broken, both in fleet roles with a 10mn fit as well as a solo roamer with a 1mn ab.


1mn fit is trash unless fighting missiles
W0lf Crendraven
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#1594 - 2014-05-24 11:58:52 UTC
1mn is absurdly strong as a solo ship (at least in low/high), you fly over 2.3km/s with a b type ab and a poly/zors. Its tanky enough to permatank even the garmur and has the ability to gtfo vs almost everything else. You can kill by scram kiting torm style, or orbiting really close and making use of that tracking bonus, all paired with high dps (over 300 with heat) and a decent tank.

Its like the dram of old with way more dps and dps at range (scorch op) and even better gtfo ability.
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#1595 - 2014-05-24 12:11:07 UTC
W0lf Crendraven wrote:
1mn is absurdly strong as a solo ship (at least in low/high), you fly over 2.3km/s with a b type ab and a poly/zors. Its tanky enough to permatank even the garmur and has the ability to gtfo vs almost everything else. You can kill by scram kiting torm style, or orbiting really close and making use of that tracking bonus, all paired with high dps (over 300 with heat) and a decent tank.

Its like the dram of old with way more dps and dps at range (scorch op) and even better gtfo ability.


Totally ignoring that even with tracking bonus and double metastasis adjusters, using gatling pulses even, you got a hard time applying any damage while using the orbit button. That atleast was my experience at close ranges, scorch and orbit at some 8km is acceptable though.

For the tanking, 2 MASBs, 1mn and a scrambler already netted range dictation against singleweb-scramfits.
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#1596 - 2014-05-24 12:16:14 UTC
W0lf Crendraven wrote:
1mn is absurdly strong as a solo ship (at least in low/high), you fly over 2.3km/s with a b type ab and a poly/zors. Its tanky enough to permatank even the garmur and has the ability to gtfo vs almost everything else. You can kill by scram kiting torm style, or orbiting really close and making use of that tracking bonus, all paired with high dps (over 300 with heat) and a decent tank.

Its like the dram of old with way more dps and dps at range (scorch op) and even better gtfo ability.


I think an AB dram is better. much more flexibility.
Flyinghotpocket
Small Focused Memes
Ragequit Cancel Sub
#1597 - 2014-05-24 15:35:41 UTC
TrouserDeagle wrote:
W0lf Crendraven wrote:
1mn is absurdly strong as a solo ship (at least in low/high), you fly over 2.3km/s with a b type ab and a poly/zors. Its tanky enough to permatank even the garmur and has the ability to gtfo vs almost everything else. You can kill by scram kiting torm style, or orbiting really close and making use of that tracking bonus, all paired with high dps (over 300 with heat) and a decent tank.

Its like the dram of old with way more dps and dps at range (scorch op) and even better gtfo ability.


I think an AB dram is better. much more flexibility.

yup, but succubus with the proper fits is just as fast now.

Amarr Militia Representative - A jar of nitro
Deacon Abox
Black Eagle5
#1598 - 2014-05-24 17:24:03 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Hey guys

Getting caught up on some feedback here finally and working on the Cruor a bit as a result.

What I'd really like to do is get the Cruor into a place where it can keep the Blood bonus layout and still be powerful enough to see battle. The request that's been made several times for an extra low makes a lot of sense but I really didn't think it could afford to give up a high (1 turret? only 1 utility high?) or a mid (web bonus) so I was a bit stuck and then I realized there's no reason it can't have 11 slots, so that's what I'm going to do.

We're also going to up the base PG from 50 to 57 and the base CPU from 140 to 150. Finally, to pay a little back for these improvements we're taking one drone away (from 10m3 to 5m3).

Hopefully all in all this gives enough flexibility in fitting to let you take advantage of the slightly divergent bonuses and that lets us keep the faction line in tact and leave the Cruor as a very unique ship in the frigate class rather than forcing it to compete directly with the Sentinel.

Let me know what you think.

One drone is sorta not worth the effort of moving the mouse.

CCP, there are off buttons for ship explosions, missile effects, turret effects, etc. "Immersion" does not seem to be harmed by those. So, [u]please[/u] give us a persisting off button for the jump gate and autoscan visuals.

Liam Inkuras
Furnace
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
#1599 - 2014-05-24 19:21:56 UTC
Deacon Abox wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:
Hey guys

Getting caught up on some feedback here finally and working on the Cruor a bit as a result.

What I'd really like to do is get the Cruor into a place where it can keep the Blood bonus layout and still be powerful enough to see battle. The request that's been made several times for an extra low makes a lot of sense but I really didn't think it could afford to give up a high (1 turret? only 1 utility high?) or a mid (web bonus) so I was a bit stuck and then I realized there's no reason it can't have 11 slots, so that's what I'm going to do.

We're also going to up the base PG from 50 to 57 and the base CPU from 140 to 150. Finally, to pay a little back for these improvements we're taking one drone away (from 10m3 to 5m3).

Hopefully all in all this gives enough flexibility in fitting to let you take advantage of the slightly divergent bonuses and that lets us keep the faction line in tact and leave the Cruor as a very unique ship in the frigate class rather than forcing it to compete directly with the Sentinel.

Let me know what you think.

One drone is sorta not worth the effort of moving the mouse.

20 extra DPS argues that point

I wear my goggles at night.

Any spelling/grammatical errors come complimentary with my typing on a phone
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#1600 - 2014-05-24 19:29:48 UTC
Aww Liam, you should know bettter.. Smile

While your boat is disabled from the two Nosferatus you have other things to worry about than a drone.

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever