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[Kronos] Pirate Faction Frigates

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Dun'Gal
Myriad Contractors Inc.
#1401 - 2014-03-21 08:25:51 UTC
@ Bouh

You're missing the point here, and gone off on a tangent that's ridiculous, so first of all, I'm fairly certain there's no magical fitting-jujitsu that prevents you from having a warp disruptor when you have an ab. Secondly I never said the comet was a close range brawling fit that needed to be in scram range/use a scram. Now can we get back on topic

The only way the Cruor works as a kiter is if it can actually apply damage at the ranges you seem to be suggesting, which the cruor can not do reliably. I'm sorry that you aren't getting this but it's just a simple fact. And no, two drones aren't going to cut it as its only DPS. As to Rise's statement that the Cruor is not used a lot at the moment. That shouldn't be a surprise, the ship is not in a good place, irregardless of the web bonus. However I guarantee you if the present Cruor didn't have its current bonus to web effectiveness, it would see zero use, except by clueless noobs who think it looks cool.

Take no offense when I say this but from the sounds of your posts I'd say that you only have partial information, at best, on PVP fits/tactics/etc, and it certainly doesn't sound like you've got a whole lot of experience to back your statements. I also think you are severly over-estimating the power of the nos on this ship. It's not a neut, and doesn't drain as much as a neut, it just happens to drain "like" a neut, while giving you some cap back in the process. It's a great bonus don't get me wrong but it doesn't offset the loss of utility this ship currently has.
Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#1402 - 2014-03-21 11:47:58 UTC
Dun'Gal wrote:
@ Bouh

You're missing the point here, and gone off on a tangent that's ridiculous, so first of all, I'm fairly certain there's no magical fitting-jujitsu that prevents you from having a warp disruptor when you have an ab. Secondly I never said the comet was a close range brawling fit that needed to be in scram range/use a scram. Now can we get back on topic

The only way the Cruor works as a kiter is if it can actually apply damage at the ranges you seem to be suggesting, which the cruor can not do reliably. I'm sorry that you aren't getting this but it's just a simple fact. And no, two drones aren't going to cut it as its only DPS. As to Rise's statement that the Cruor is not used a lot at the moment. That shouldn't be a surprise, the ship is not in a good place, irregardless of the web bonus. However I guarantee you if the present Cruor didn't have its current bonus to web effectiveness, it would see zero use, except by clueless noobs who think it looks cool.

Take no offense when I say this but from the sounds of your posts I'd say that you only have partial information, at best, on PVP fits/tactics/etc, and it certainly doesn't sound like you've got a whole lot of experience to back your statements. I also think you are severly over-estimating the power of the nos on this ship. It's not a neut, and doesn't drain as much as a neut, it just happens to drain "like" a neut, while giving you some cap back in the process. It's a great bonus don't get me wrong but it doesn't offset the loss of utility this ship currently has.
Ok, I'll make it short :
1) hypothetical and unused fit don't make good arguments, they just make you ridiculous ;
---- A scramkiting ship *can* fit a long point instead of a scram, but that would be stupid, because then it would have absolutely no single chance against anything with a MWD.
2) a kiting frigate can use LR turret to kite ;
---- See kiting Atron in any killboard you like for example. It's not as OP as missiles can be, and LR turrets don't track as well as pulse, but it works, killboards prove it.
3) I won't go personal, but what I explained is how the metagame of frigate dueling works. You just can't talk about frigate balancing without knowing it, because if you don't know it, that mean you don't have a comprehensive view of how frigate warfare works.

The problem is that everyone want the Cruor to be a scramkiting king so it can apply easily its nos and eat any frigate for breakfast, but as I already said, and as Rise said, the web strengh bonus is redundant with the Daredevil, and the only thing we know is that the bonus works better with the Daredevil than with the Cruor. Changing a working ship (the Daredevil) to something else just in the hope the Cruor wil then work is an unreasonable idea based on fealings instead of reason.

Finaly, for the nos powerlevel, I indeed don't know it, but the facts are that it have been nerfed in the past for a good reason. Either you are like me and you weren't there at this time and you don't know more than me how powerful it is, or you were there and you'll hopefully explain to everyone what changed in the game which make it less OP than before. :-)
Flyinghotpocket
Small Focused Memes
Ragequit Cancel Sub
#1403 - 2014-03-21 15:22:22 UTC
Bouh Revetoile wrote:
[quote=Dun'Gal]

and as Rise said, the web strengh bonus is redundant with the Daredevil, and the only thing we know is that the bonus works better with the Daredevil than with the Cruor. Changing a working ship (the Daredevil) to something else just in the hope the Cruor wil then work is an unreasonable idea based on fealings instead of reason.


im almost certian if the cruor got the OP 200% damage bonus like the daredevil it would be regarded just the same. and tbh the serp line already has range bonus's on its weapons it should be the one getting the web range bonus. frankly the serp line is redundant with the blood raider line.

Amarr Militia Representative - A jar of nitro
Etuura Zellis
Scarlet Corsairs
#1404 - 2014-03-21 19:52:38 UTC
Bouh Revetoile wrote:
Dun'Gal wrote:
@ Bouh

You're missing the point here, and gone off on a tangent that's ridiculous, so first of all, I'm fairly certain there's no magical fitting-jujitsu that prevents you from having a warp disruptor when you have an ab. Secondly I never said the comet was a close range brawling fit that needed to be in scram range/use a scram. Now can we get back on topic

The only way the Cruor works as a kiter is if it can actually apply damage at the ranges you seem to be suggesting, which the cruor can not do reliably. I'm sorry that you aren't getting this but it's just a simple fact. And no, two drones aren't going to cut it as its only DPS. As to Rise's statement that the Cruor is not used a lot at the moment. That shouldn't be a surprise, the ship is not in a good place, irregardless of the web bonus. However I guarantee you if the present Cruor didn't have its current bonus to web effectiveness, it would see zero use, except by clueless noobs who think it looks cool.

Take no offense when I say this but from the sounds of your posts I'd say that you only have partial information, at best, on PVP fits/tactics/etc, and it certainly doesn't sound like you've got a whole lot of experience to back your statements. I also think you are severly over-estimating the power of the nos on this ship. It's not a neut, and doesn't drain as much as a neut, it just happens to drain "like" a neut, while giving you some cap back in the process. It's a great bonus don't get me wrong but it doesn't offset the loss of utility this ship currently has.
Ok, I'll make it short :
1) hypothetical and unused fit don't make good arguments, they just make you ridiculous ;
---- A scramkiting ship *can* fit a long point instead of a scram, but that would be stupid, because then it would have absolutely no single chance against anything with a MWD.
2) a kiting frigate can use LR turret to kite ;
---- See kiting Atron in any killboard you like for example. It's not as OP as missiles can be, and LR turrets don't track as well as pulse, but it works, killboards prove it.
3) I won't go personal, but what I explained is how the metagame of frigate dueling works. You just can't talk about frigate balancing without knowing it, because if you don't know it, that mean you don't have a comprehensive view of how frigate warfare works.

The problem is that everyone want the Cruor to be a scramkiting king so it can apply easily its nos and eat any frigate for breakfast, but as I already said, and as Rise said, the web strengh bonus is redundant with the Daredevil, and the only thing we know is that the bonus works better with the Daredevil than with the Cruor. Changing a working ship (the Daredevil) to something else just in the hope the Cruor wil then work is an unreasonable idea based on fealings instead of reason.

Finaly, for the nos powerlevel, I indeed don't know it, but the facts are that it have been nerfed in the past for a good reason. Either you are like me and you weren't there at this time and you don't know more than me how powerful it is, or you were there and you'll hopefully explain to everyone what changed in the game which make it less OP than before. :-)


Look guy, I think you're heart is in the right place but after reading the back and forth here, I can see you're a bit lost. Every argument you've tried to make in favor of the Cruor changes has been shot down in a ball of fire. If the only reasonable explanation for this change is flavor, then god help us all because balance has clearly gone out the window. Also the argument you two seem to be having is odd but you Bouh, definitely don't know what you are talking about.

I would say one of the more common Comet fits I see, which is also one of the more successful fits, is an Afterburner + Warp Disruptor, Rail Comet (I suspect this is the Comet being discussed.) It handles virtually all situations just fine, including ships with microwarpdrives. As to the assertion that long range weapons work (I just listed one example) I will agree, to an extent - I'm afraid that a beam frigate is well, not good. Fly a beam slicer and see how that goes (I'll give you a hint: horribly.) Not only is the damage easily tankable by virtually everything but the tracking is even worse, and for lasers that says a lot.

I've flown Cruor's a lot over the years and in it's current state it's the sort of ship you have to be very picky about your fights with. The fights you can take you can generally only take because you have a strong web, having more range on that web would merely make it a worse slicer, with webs. Especially when the other bonus does nothing to help it at that range.
Dun'Gal
Myriad Contractors Inc.
#1405 - 2014-03-21 20:20:07 UTC
Bouh Revetoile wrote:

The problem is that everyone want the Cruor to be a scramkiting king so it can apply easily its nos and eat any frigate for breakfast, but as I already said, and as Rise said, the web strengh bonus is redundant with the Daredevil, and the only thing we know is that the bonus works better with the Daredevil than with the Cruor. Changing a working ship (the Daredevil) to something else just in the hope the Cruor wil then work is an unreasonable idea based on fealings instead of reason.

Finaly, for the nos powerlevel, I indeed don't know it, but the facts are that it have been nerfed in the past for a good reason. Either you are like me and you weren't there at this time and you don't know more than me how powerful it is, or you were there and you'll hopefully explain to everyone what changed in the game which make it less OP than before. :-)


I'm not going to continue arguing with you about scramkiting, because you are the only one here who keeps bringing it up. So the point is moot. Redundant bonuses? How about the fact that the Hyena and Rapier have a 40% bonus to web range, sounds pretty redundant to me. It's not a good argument and everyone here knows it. If you'd ever flown a Cruor you would also realize that the current bonus doesn't work better on either ship, because the bonus is identical. The problem with the Cruor is that it is slower than a Daredevil, and does less damage than the Daredevil. Both of these things would be fine if there was some compensation in tank, but sadly the Cruor doesn't fit a very meaningful tank either. We aren't asking for the Daredevil to get changed so just stop suggesting that is the case, we're asking for the Cruor to get changes that are needed, and not ones that are unnecessary so it can be resigned to an even more niche role than it currently is. (BTW when's the last time you saw a Hyena on the field, in something other than lol fleets)

And the NOS, did you read the changes to the NOS? Is it really that difficult to understand? The only difference between current NOS and what they want with this is that it continues to drain irregardless of your cap in comparison to your enemies cap, ie. like a neut. The amount it drains is still the same, which even on a Cruor with bonuses is very little. In fact it's about 1/4 of what an unbonused neut drains. It just means you are going to continue to gain cap from your target until they are completely dry even if you are sitting at full capacitor.
Dyniss
KarmaFleet University
#1406 - 2014-03-21 21:03:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Dyniss
I really dislike how they are trying to tote every ship as a viable pvp platform. The Rattlesnake was (and still is) one of the best pve battleships around. And honestly who is going to roam around in a 700million isk battleship (fittings and such included in price factoring)? Your drones being high damage is of moot point since YOU will be the first target and the first one to die. So why not try to I don't know give us a ship that excels in both areas without sacrificing one for the other? A heavy drone Rattler (or Gila) for pve? Don't make me laugh. It was such a versatile ship with its utility high slots, good range with torpedoes (thanks to its velocity bonus), large drone bay for different types of drones (sentries, lights, logistical and heavies or ewar if need be). But oh no... We need another ship to shoot at and blow up so lets make something good like the Gurista pirate ships into another bland pvp style ship. Way to go.
Giullare
The Candyman is Back
#1407 - 2014-03-21 21:46:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Giullare
Dyniss wrote:
I really dislike how they are trying to tote every ship as a viable pvp platform. The Rattlesnake was (and still is) one of the best pve battleships around. And honestly who is going to roam around in a 700million isk battleship (fittings and such included in price factoring)


Sorry to inform u that rattlesnake is one of the worst pve battleships since it's overtanked and deal less damage than other pirate ships.

On the other side of the coin u can bait fight with it since it cost 400 mil and not 700 like u r saying.
Joe Boirele
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1408 - 2014-03-21 22:00:15 UTC
Dyniss wrote:
I really dislike how they are trying to tote every ship as a viable pvp platform. The Rattlesnake was (and still is) one of the best pve battleships around. And honestly who is going to roam around in a 700million isk battleship (fittings and such included in price factoring)? Your drones being high damage is of moot point since YOU will be the first target and the first one to die. So why not try to I don't know give us a ship that excels in both areas without sacrificing one for the other? A heavy drone Rattler (or Gila) for pve? Don't make me laugh. It was such a versatile ship with its utility high slots, good range with torpedoes (thanks to its velocity bonus), large drone bay for different types of drones (sentries, lights, logistical and heavies or ewar if need be). But oh no... We need another ship to shoot at and blow up so lets make something good like the Gurista pirate ships into another bland pvp style ship. Way to go.


Woah woah woah, man. Maybe you haven't heard, but torps aren't especially useful beyond web range, and I'd much prefer a damage bonus to a range one. Also, balancing something around PVE is a bad idea, we don't know that the changes extend to the rattlesnake, and I disagree with the assessment of such a ship as "a bland pvp style ship". It gets bonuses to shields, drones, and missiles. How is that even close to bland?! Only the other ships in the guristas line get those bonuses together.

Enemies are just friends who stab you in the front.

"We will not go quietly into the night! We will not vanish without a fight!"
ConranAntoni
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1409 - 2014-03-21 22:40:55 UTC
Cruor development plan summed up in images;

Initial Pass
Working web and nuet ranges
Current Incarnation

It's like their trying to troll us by making it continually worse.

Empyrean Warriors - Recruiting now.
Marcia en Welle
Doomheim
#1410 - 2014-03-21 23:50:43 UTC
Still no change made to the pretty useless web range bonus on the cruor then..... Dissapointing

Just bring back the 90% webs and give all the blood raider ships a bit more speed, this is amarr mixed with minmatar after all. Speed, low sig, with enough low slots to fit a decent tank, and they will be perfect.

The bhaalgorn can live with 90% webs instead of the range, Ashimmu will be just fine, the Cruor will be great.

Put it the other way around though, and the only ship that web range really works well for is the Bhaalgorn which is the ship which need the least help.
Dyniss
KarmaFleet University
#1411 - 2014-03-22 00:49:37 UTC
Joe Boirele wrote:
Dyniss wrote:
I really dislike how they are trying to tote every ship as a viable pvp platform. The Rattlesnake was (and still is) one of the best pve battleships around. And honestly who is going to roam around in a 700million isk battleship (fittings and such included in price factoring)? Your drones being high damage is of moot point since YOU will be the first target and the first one to die. So why not try to I don't know give us a ship that excels in both areas without sacrificing one for the other? A heavy drone Rattler (or Gila) for pve? Don't make me laugh. It was such a versatile ship with its utility high slots, good range with torpedoes (thanks to its velocity bonus), large drone bay for different types of drones (sentries, lights, logistical and heavies or ewar if need be). But oh no... We need another ship to shoot at and blow up so lets make something good like the Gurista pirate ships into another bland pvp style ship. Way to go.


Woah woah woah, man. Maybe you haven't heard, but torps aren't especially useful beyond web range, and I'd much prefer a damage bonus to a range one. Also, balancing something around PVE is a bad idea, we don't know that the changes extend to the rattlesnake, and I disagree with the assessment of such a ship as "a bland pvp style ship". It gets bonuses to shields, drones, and missiles. How is that even close to bland?! Only the other ships in the guristas line get those bonuses together.


Torps no good past web range? Seriously? With good skills and a couple rigs you can hit anything cruiser and larger out to almost 50km with them! Also it's not bland now. It's very useful. I'd rather have range over damage. Doesn't mean anything if your missiles are strong if the never hit their intended target. It doesn't need to be balanced around PVE. Have a decent balance for the platform over all aspects of its uses.
Dun'Gal
Myriad Contractors Inc.
#1412 - 2014-03-22 06:18:14 UTC
Joe Boirele wrote:
Woah woah woah, man. Maybe you haven't heard, but torps aren't especially useful beyond web range, and I'd much prefer a damage bonus to a range one. Also, balancing something around PVE is a bad idea, we don't know that the changes extend to the rattlesnake, and I disagree with the assessment of such a ship as "a bland pvp style ship". It gets bonuses to shields, drones, and missiles. How is that even close to bland?! Only the other ships in the guristas line get those bonuses together.

Hey don't worry just add a cruor to your fleet and it can mwd around and web stuff for your torps to hit o.O Still trying to figure a good use for that uninspired bonus.....
Giullare
The Candyman is Back
#1413 - 2014-03-22 08:46:48 UTC
Dyniss wrote:


Torps no good past web range? Seriously? With good skills and a couple rigs you can hit anything cruiser and larger out to almost 50km with them! Also it's not bland now. It's very useful. I'd rather have range over damage. Doesn't mean anything if your missiles are strong if the never hit their intended target. It doesn't need to be balanced around PVE. Have a decent balance for the platform over all aspects of its uses.


Yes, cause everyone with a brain want to fit missile range rigs on a pirate bs with 4 unbonused (speaking of damage) launchers.

It's like fitting burst aerator on old ishtar to maximize medium hybrid damage or put magnetic field on arazu to " squeeze that gun damage " Lol
Crazy KSK
Tsunami Cartel
#1414 - 2014-03-22 23:52:27 UTC
I still think that the cruor can't stay as a brawler even with the 90% web its tank is just too bad
the web range bonus on top of a neut range one (maybe with 3-4-3 layout) is IMHO the way to go same for the ashimmu
kinda like this

PS: are you guys really ok with the massive power grid nerf its going to get?

Quote CCP Fozzie: ... The days of balance and forget are over.
Flyinghotpocket
Small Focused Memes
Ragequit Cancel Sub
#1415 - 2014-03-23 05:44:27 UTC
Crazy KSK wrote:
I still think that the cruor can't stay as a brawler even with the 90% web its tank is just too bad
the web range bonus on top of a neut range one (maybe with 3-4-3 layout) is IMHO the way to go same for the ashimmu
kinda like this

PS: are you guys really ok with the massive power grid nerf its going to get?

the cruors current role as a brawler with 90% web is just fine. it pushs a nice 12kehp tank before slaves or links. plenty to land inquisitor or navitas reps. Ashimmu is beautiful currently with the 90% web and one of the strongest t1/faction cruiser tanks in the game at the moment.

the power grid nerf on the cruor will completely destroy it's tank. it will have to fit 1 ACR. like ALLLLL amarr ships worth a damn. this is supposed to be a minmatar/amarr combined ship so cant this ship you know... have epic fitting like all minmatar ships fit the biggest guns and full t2 tank no big deal? can we? for the first ever laser ship?

or you know since amarr ships base speeds are one of the fastest in the game, and the minmatar are general fastest in the game after fitting tank. shouldnt this minmatar/amarr hybrid be wicked ******* fast?

Amarr Militia Representative - A jar of nitro
Etuura Zellis
Scarlet Corsairs
#1416 - 2014-03-23 06:03:48 UTC
Flyinghotpocket wrote:
Crazy KSK wrote:
I still think that the cruor can't stay as a brawler even with the 90% web its tank is just too bad
the web range bonus on top of a neut range one (maybe with 3-4-3 layout) is IMHO the way to go same for the ashimmu
kinda like this

PS: are you guys really ok with the massive power grid nerf its going to get?

the cruors current role as a brawler with 90% web is just fine. it pushs a nice 12kehp tank before slaves or links. plenty to land inquisitor or navitas reps. Ashimmu is beautiful currently with the 90% web and one of the strongest t1/faction cruiser tanks in the game at the moment.

the power grid nerf on the cruor will completely destroy it's tank. it will have to fit 1 ACR. like ALLLLL amarr ships worth a damn. this is supposed to be a minmatar/amarr combined ship so cant this ship you know... have epic fitting like all minmatar ships fit the biggest guns and full t2 tank no big deal? can we? for the first ever laser ship?

or you know since amarr ships base speeds are one of the fastest in the game, and the minmatar are general fastest in the game after fitting tank. shouldnt this minmatar/amarr hybrid be wicked ******* fast?

I am curious about your 12k ehp tank on a cruor, that seems extraordinarily high - as for the pg nerf, no, I'm not ok with that either. But one thing at a time here. Honestly I'd just like to see something from Rise either shooting us all down or saying "these are valid points, perhaps I need to rethink this." Preferably the latter of course.
Goldensaver
Maraque Enterprises
Just let it happen
#1417 - 2014-03-23 06:42:16 UTC
Flyinghotpocket wrote:
Crazy KSK wrote:
I still think that the cruor can't stay as a brawler even with the 90% web its tank is just too bad
the web range bonus on top of a neut range one (maybe with 3-4-3 layout) is IMHO the way to go same for the ashimmu
kinda like this

PS: are you guys really ok with the massive power grid nerf its going to get?

the cruors current role as a brawler with 90% web is just fine. it pushs a nice 12kehp tank before slaves or links. plenty to land inquisitor or navitas reps. Ashimmu is beautiful currently with the 90% web and one of the strongest t1/faction cruiser tanks in the game at the moment.



Alright, because people keep mentioning it, **** the 90% web bonus, I hope it burns in hell. It`s ******** as **** and is ridiculously OP in solo/small gang, and is ridiculously stupid in tandem with blap dreads.

Sure, it doesn't scale all to spectacularly, but **** that bullshit with letting ******* dreads blap interceptors (this was mentioned because because it is a fringe case of the lowest tracking still hitting the smallest and fastest ships) for near full damage application because they're so ******* OP.

People have no issue with an abiliity to reduce people to under 1% of their maximum speed? Seriously? This isn't problematic? Speed, the lifeblood of almost every ship in game? Well sure, I wouldn't care... if it wasn't possible to do out to over 20km range. 10%, the approximate maximum possible with normal 60% webs, and with a minimum of 5 of them? Sure, but either ******* cap 90% webs and effective at only 1 (an arbitrary and rather stupid effect, limitations in our sandbox are stupid), or nerf that **** to be less ********. I don't care if the webs are stronger, but 90% is stupid. 5% per level, or even 7.5% per level is much more agreeable. So with great sincerity; kindly go **** yourselves everybody who wants their pwnmobiles with 90% webs.

TL;DR, 75% webs or 82.5% webs, not 90% webs.
Crazy KSK
Tsunami Cartel
#1418 - 2014-03-23 07:50:38 UTC
Flyinghotpocket wrote:

the cruors current role as a brawler with 90% web is just fine. it pushs a nice 12kehp tank before slaves or links. plenty to land inquisitor or navitas reps. Ashimmu is beautiful currently with the 90% web and one of the strongest t1/faction cruiser tanks in the game at the moment.

the power grid nerf on the cruor will completely destroy it's tank. it will have to fit 1 ACR. like ALLLLL amarr ships worth a damn. this is supposed to be a minmatar/amarr combined ship so cant this ship you know... have epic fitting like all minmatar ships fit the biggest guns and full t2 tank no big deal? can we? for the first ever laser ship?

or you know since amarr ships base speeds are one of the fastest in the game, and the minmatar are general fastest in the game after fitting tank. shouldnt this minmatar/amarr hybrid be wicked ******* fast?


yes that's about the only way either of them can work, with logi, but hold on who in his right mind would bring either of them to a fleet? ah right people using dreads that need a cheap 90% web ship anyone sensible would bring a sentinel or curse of course.

also 12k ehp Lol
http://pastebin.com/eVWSen2k


Quote CCP Fozzie: ... The days of balance and forget are over.
Dun'Gal
Myriad Contractors Inc.
#1419 - 2014-03-23 11:08:26 UTC
Goldensaver wrote:

Alright, because people keep mentioning it, **** the 90% web bonus, I hope it burns in hell. It`s ******** as **** and is ridiculously OP in solo/small gang, and is ridiculously stupid in tandem with blap dreads.

Sure, it doesn't scale all to spectacularly, but **** that bullshit with letting ******* dreads blap interceptors (this was mentioned because because it is a fringe case of the lowest tracking still hitting the smallest and fastest ships) for near full damage application because they're so ******* OP.

People have no issue with an abiliity to reduce people to under 1% of their maximum speed? Seriously? This isn't problematic? Speed, the lifeblood of almost every ship in game? Well sure, I wouldn't care... if it wasn't possible to do out to over 20km range. 10%, the approximate maximum possible with normal 60% webs, and with a minimum of 5 of them? Sure, but either ******* cap 90% webs and effective at only 1 (an arbitrary and rather stupid effect, limitations in our sandbox are stupid), or nerf that **** to be less ********. I don't care if the webs are stronger, but 90% is stupid. 5% per level, or even 7.5% per level is much more agreeable. So with great sincerity; kindly go **** yourselves everybody who wants their pwnmobiles with 90% webs.

TL;DR, 75% webs or 82.5% webs, not 90% webs.

Heh, post more, you're funny
Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#1420 - 2014-03-23 14:10:07 UTC
Dun'Gal wrote:
Heh, post more, you're funny
You are starting to troll again...