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[Kronos] Pirate Faction Frigates

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Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#121 - 2014-02-25 15:51:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Daichi Yamato
Umberto Burgundh wrote:
Not sure about the way you want to evolve Guristas. I mean - when you control 5 drones, well, not a big deal if one doesn't hit. But when you control only two and one of them doesn't hit, you deal only half the damage.


and when u get a smashing or wrecking hit?

i take it the drone bays of the gila and rattler will get downsized. but the lesser uber drones is cool.

old style vamps are nice, but web range cruor and ashimmu without neut range? hmmm. possible to be able to get them to use both at roughly the same range like the bhaalgorn?

dnt know about sansha, but cant be worse than before right?

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
The Upright Woman
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#122 - 2014-02-25 15:52:07 UTC  |  Edited by: The Upright Woman
Hope Alar wrote:
Ayallah wrote:
All these cool abilities make the Dramiel seem kind of bland =/

I hope it doesn't go like the Rifter.


You could. you know, cross train? Doesn't take long.

'Use something else' is hardly a practicable solution to a problem in the balancing stakes, wouldn't you agree?
Since you know, the entire point of the thread is to discuss relative levels of balance...

Vadeim Rizen wrote:

1) give the vigilant a much longer lock range. 40km isn't enough compared to deimos 120km lock rangel. ~70 should suffice.

One of those is T1, the other is T2.

Apples and oranges.
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#123 - 2014-02-25 15:53:05 UTC
Michael Harari wrote:
nm


did you even read the quoted parts or what?

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Ultimate Tales
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#124 - 2014-02-25 15:53:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Ultimate Tales
Sorry but Worm with one drone pack? Changes are fine but allow him to have 2 setups of drones. If I want switch drone dmg I need dock and change drones. No1 using him cause he dont have dmg, is expensive. Now you want give him more dmg but one drone bay on drone ship sound gay... Tristan > Worm - before and after your changes if you dont allow him to 50 drone capacity.
stg slate
State War Academy
Caldari State
#125 - 2014-02-25 15:54:35 UTC
Worm:

I enjoy the new bonuses drone direction, but I'm afraid of what the Gila will look like based on that.

No matter what bandwidth you give the Gila I'll fill it full of Warrior 2's and a few drone nav computers and have 300% bonused, very fast Warrior 2's murdering frigates.

Current game mechanics with bandwidth won't let you expand out this design to the Gila or Rattlesnake without creating a balance issue at those levels.
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#126 - 2014-02-25 15:54:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Michael Harari
Ultimate Tales wrote:
Sorry but Worm with one drone pack? Changes are fine but allow him to have 2 setups of drones. If I want switch drone dmg I need dock and change drones. No1 using him cause he dont have dmg, is expensive. Now you want give him more dmg but one drone bay on drone ship sound gay... Tristan > Worm - before and after your changes if you dont allow him to 50 drone capacity.


The worm will have 2.5 flights of drones.
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#127 - 2014-02-25 15:54:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Il Feytid
Would be nice if these (and or other frigates) had a role bonus to use the Target Spectrum Breaker.

-100% to CPU and Power grid needed
-100% to capacitor needed
-83.5% to cycle time (would mean after the support skill Target Break Amplification skill to level 5 it would have a cycle time of 1 second)

This would allow these pirate frigates the ability to enter a large battlefield and take targets on a more mano-a-mano style form of combat in the mist of all the F1 on primary nonsense we have now. Twisted

AttentionOr... introduce the TSB for cruisers and frigates already.Attention
Eric Shang
Russian Villiage Boys
Pan-Intergalatic Business Community
#128 - 2014-02-25 15:55:10 UTC
I have been told that the succubus has cap problems and its hard to fit it correctly?

Will these changes actually help this? I like the look of them. MAD MAX Biker Helmets

Ex Pirate - Now a reborn priest for Faith Singularity

My Pirate Journey: http://ericshangthepirate.wordpress.com/
Nicen Jehr
Subsidy H.R.S.
Xagenic Freymvork
#129 - 2014-02-25 15:55:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Nicen Jehr
CCP Rise wrote:
note: Energy Vampires operate as though your capacitor is empty (this wording is work in progress)
Bob FromMarketing wrote:
'Energy Vampires fitted to this ship will drain targeted ship's capacitor regardless of your own capacitor level'
much better, but someone who doesn't know the mechanics (or has only nos'd NPCs) might not understand that it will not drain any if they cap their opponent out.
so maybe
Nicen Jehr wrote:
"Role Bonus: Your Energy Vampires are not limited by your capacitor percent; they instead drain the target ship's capacitor as long as it has any capacitor left to take."

Little Things to improve ≡⋁≡ | My Little Things posts
Meandering Milieu
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#130 - 2014-02-25 15:59:16 UTC
Imiarr Timshae wrote:
No-one shield tanks a dominix.


If we are talking for pvp, you might be right. I dunno cause I don't really pvp.

If you are talking about pve, I can't tell you how entirely wrong you are about nobody shield tanking a domi, or since you are talking about a about the RS, a navy domi as well.
Kmelx
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#131 - 2014-02-25 16:00:46 UTC
Remove the 90% web bonus from all serp ships or nerf it , removing it from the ashimmu is a great start, but don't leave it on the serp hulls.

In my experience 90% webs have two primary in game uses, that is to make gate camps inescapable because you cannot re-approach or it is extremely difficult in even the fastest ships, or they are used to slow ships down to the point where dreads track them so you can blap them. Neither of these mechanics are particularly desirable imo. Gate camping is pretty lame and so is dread blapping.

If you do want to keep a web strength bonus in game, how about this, keep it at 90% on the DD and then have the strength drop off on the vigi and the vindi, the bigger the hull the lower the strength of the web. That makes it possible to at least try to blap a DD on a gate and get out if you run across a camp using 90% webs and it nerfs dread blapping at the same time and gives you a better chance to re-approach if you run into someone camping with Vigilants for example.

So say 90% web on on the DD and 80% on the Vigi and 70% on the Vindi for web strength as figures I just pulled out of the air.

I don't like the way your going with Guristas Hulls either, as someone else pointed out if you have two drones and one is missing that is half your deeps, if your going to do this you have to give the hulls a small drone tracking buff so they are not missing quite as often imo.
Sublime Rage
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#132 - 2014-02-25 16:02:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Sublime Rage
love the direction they are taking,looking forward for the next reveals.

PS: I don't find the serpentis web bonus at all OP,there are ways to deal with it
Cade Windstalker
#133 - 2014-02-25 16:02:38 UTC
Breselyer AnDu wrote:
I hate it when they mess with the ships I like. They could have rebalanced by adding new ships, affordable ones!
People want more content not nit picking the bits we already have and messing up loadouts.


No, I'm pretty sure people want existing content to be balanced. Just because you like flying your OP ship doesn't mean it's fun for others to fly against something that's OP. There is no amount of adding new ships that is going to make something currently OP not OP, and it certainly won't make something that sucks better by association (somehow, magically!)
Stephanie Rosefire
Atlas Protectorate and Empire Defense Agency
#134 - 2014-02-25 16:02:56 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Stuff


ok, i think these are great (especially the succubus, me being a hard core amarrian, and flying the nightmare in incursions, i think that these buffs will be awesome!) i just wanted to make not of something, and i know that this was talked about before.

BUT.

there are no caldari/minmatar pirate faction ships. in short, i think that the rebalance will be an awesome opportunity to create this missing faction of ships. Mordu Legion combat ships? with massive missile bonuses? would fill a hole.

anyway, keep up the great work!
Cade Windstalker
#135 - 2014-02-25 16:05:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Cade Windstalker
So, a thought on the Serpentis Webs problem. What about keeping the web bonus around but hard-limiting the hulls to a single web.

Alternatively, make it so the effectiveness of the total webs on a target can't exceed 90%. This soft-cap already exists with normal 60% webs, this would just make it an official hard-cap so 2 Daredevils don't make things Dread-fodder.

Stephanie Rosefire wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:
Stuff


ok, i think these are great (especially the succubus, me being a hard core amarrian, and flying the nightmare in incursions, i think that these buffs will be awesome!) i just wanted to make not of something, and i know that this was talked about before.

BUT.

there are no caldari/minmatar pirate faction ships. in short, i think that the rebalance will be an awesome opportunity to create this missing faction of ships. Mordu Legion combat ships? with massive missile bonuses? would fill a hole.

anyway, keep up the great work!


Mordu's Legion are Gallente/Caldari but with more of a focus on Hybrid weapons. There currently isn't a Caldari/Minmattar faction in the game so one would have to be added. It'll probably happen eventually but I think most of the design bandwidth for the summer release is spoken for already.
Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#136 - 2014-02-25 16:05:29 UTC
Harvey James wrote:
Michael Harari wrote:
I appear to have misread the succubus bonus.

I thought it was a flat 20% bonus. It appears to be 20% per level. This is incredibly broken. I thought a 50% bonus was tested during the assault frigate rework, and was found to be unworkably broken, and this is a 100% bonus.


yes... im intrigued by just how fast the sansha line of ships will be... but capacitor is something that needs the most attention on these ships... maybe allowing for a nos in the highs would be good but they never have the grid for it .. lasers still need lower fitting..


Some loose playing around on the Succubus:

High:
Small Focused Pulse Laser II x 2
Meta Neut
Mid:
AB II
MASB
Meta Web
Meta Scram
Low:
DC II
HS II
Nano II

Less then a PG to spare. 5.5 CPU left over. I imagine you would have to have fitting implants or go to dual light pulses in order to fit faction gear on it.
Eric Shang
Russian Villiage Boys
Pan-Intergalatic Business Community
#137 - 2014-02-25 16:07:57 UTC
Stephanie Rosefire wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:
Stuff



there are no caldari/minmatar pirate faction ships. in short, i think that the rebalance will be an awesome opportunity to create this missing faction of ships. Mordu Legion combat ships? with massive missile bonuses? would fill a hole.

anyway, keep up the great work!


Rust with shields? Intresting

Ex Pirate - Now a reborn priest for Faith Singularity

My Pirate Journey: http://ericshangthepirate.wordpress.com/
jonnykefka
Adhocracy Incorporated
Adhocracy
#138 - 2014-02-25 16:08:26 UTC
The Guristas rebalance worries me a bit. Drones as a weapons system are kind of in flux right now, it looks like they're on the docket for huge revamps in the not-too-distant future (or so we hope) and there's lots of issues with how they work now. I particularly noted the comment from a Goon a few pages back about how it's an invitation to make an assist fleet with the Gila or Rattlesnake with the new cap of 50 drones. Maybe you know something I don't, but this seems like a direction that will lead to either a broken ship line that dominates doctrines or something that becomes largely irrelevant when drones as a whole get revamped.

One thought I had is that the Guristas have one other strength: ECM. All right, I know the concept of faction ECM ships is scary as all hell and Caldari have shield ECM pretty well nailed, but I think it could be done in a way that doesn't make it completely broken or redundant. Namely, keep the drone theme.

An EWAR drone bonus (not just ECM, but all disruption drones) would be unique and interesting, counterable (in w-space we have gotten into the habit of fitting smartbombs into the highs of certain ships for this exact purpose), and side-step the entire drone assist mess (can't assist ewar drones!). Give them moderately strong launcher damage besides and you have a rather unique and interesting ship that can have an impact at all three sizes.

I think my only concern going that route would be that the Worm might become TOO strong in 1v1 situations, but that would depend on the number of drones available and the total magnitude of the strength bonus. Having only two drones out but each one jamming with Scorpion strength (or Falcon multispec strength) seems...plausibly balanced?

On the whole I would like to campaign for more interesting disruption-oriented faction ships like the Blood Raider line. As w-space knows better than anyone, the full-neut Bhaalgorn is a monstrously powerful ship that can become the deciding factor in a fight. A full-neut Bhaal with 30km webs creates a 30km sphere of death for any subcap that needs capacitor for anything (particularly effective on wormholes), and they are death incarnate for carriers.
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#139 - 2014-02-25 16:10:35 UTC
Laiannah Sahireen wrote:
Harvey James wrote:
also any chance of reducing prices on faction ships in general? paying 50 mil plus for a frig seems excessive


The market (i.e. the players) decides the value of the pirate faction ships, not CCP. It costs practically nothing to build a pirate frigate if you have the BPC and about 10mil to build a cruiser. The price comes from the relative scarcity of the BPCs compared to standard ships, for which you can just by a BPO from an NPC sell order.

Oh and if you're worried about the prices being too high, you're in for a rough ride, because they are most certainly going to go up on a lot of these hulls now that a buff is incoming in the not-so-distant future.


Some will go up. Market is already moving on the Cruor bigtime.
Some, like the Daredevil, which took a slight nerf in tank and other areas, will drop, as the others become more attractive.
Breselyer AnDu
Ashab Alliance
#140 - 2014-02-25 16:11:35 UTC
Cade Windstalker wrote:
Breselyer AnDu wrote:
I hate it when they mess with the ships I like. They could have rebalanced by adding new ships, affordable ones!
People want more content not nit picking the bits we already have and messing up loadouts.


No, I'm pretty sure people want existing content to be balanced. Just because you like flying your OP ship doesn't mean it's fun for others to fly against something that's OP. There is no amount of adding new ships that is going to make something currently OP not OP, and it certainly won't make something that sucks better by association (somehow, magically!)


New ships, if my ship is OP then add new equals. People can vote with their feet (or their isk) buy the new "better balanced" ships or stick to the ones you like. No need to mess with what I fly to be fair to others, just give them something with comparable levels of benefits.