Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Is bringing the right ship for the job a good counter?

I'm just wondering because there are several ships out there that are OP until somebody brings a hard counter for them.

I really don't understand the Cruor change, if anything it's making the ship WORSE, the two bonuses are now mutually exclusive. You can't make use of the neut/nos bonus outside of 7km in which case the web bonus becomes obsolete, and vice versa. Having to choose between which of the ship's bonuses that you want to use is very poor planning and really needs to be reworked.
The only reason the Bhaalgorn works well with the web bonus is because it's neuts have a 30km range and therefore both bonuses can be used together and complement each other. This will not work on the Cruor because the ranges involved do not complement each other, the neuts need more range (if so, why not just buy a senintel?) or the webs need to go back to 90% again.
Besides, what is the reasoning behind reducing the ship's PG? It makes the ship a horror to fit, with mis-matched bonuses and a nice shiny price tag with absolutely no reason for said price tag.
If you want to improve the ship so that people might fly it, it needs a 4th mid slot so it can use both a web and cap booster, along with the fitting to do so. Then just leave it alone.
If you want to nerf the ship so that it becomes worse than the current Succubus in terms of being useful, keep it up, it will be

TL;DR: The Cruor bonuses cannot be used together and need to be reworked.

It's a nice bonus, however, since it does not have a range bonus, I would argue it is balanced with a risk of fighting closer in. On the cruiser and bs hulls this us more of an issue but I guess on the frigate the bonus is potentially more 'broken' since they fight closer in, probably have more more 1v1s, and are at a much greater chance of getting killed when under 90% web.

The reality is that if you fit two webs on a standard, unbonused ship or two ships with a web you almost have the same effect as the serp bonus.

I think you hit the nail on the head that in the right (wrong?) situation it can feel broken. I would guess that situation is predominantly 1v1 frigs and only on the serp frigate hull?

If you do consider nerfing the web on the frig hull I hope it will not automatically pave the way for the Vindi / Vigilant.

Thats not even close man. 2 serp webs will get you down to 2% speed or so...

Pirate ships should be a little special.

The DD has it (Web Strength) , the proposed Cruor has it (Web Range / NOS).

NFI what's going to happen with the Worm's 'super drones' but it's different and could be called special I guess.
NFI what's gonna happen with the Succ but it too Is different and can certainly be called special.

Seems to me though, that the Dram is being left out in the cold much like the Succ and Worm were previously.
Please don't do that CCP Rise. If the changes go through then it will be left way behind.

i have been saying this about dram and DD ... dramiel being angel is supposed to be shield tanked and DD armour tank .. dram and DD need to have more HP stacked on their main tank.. succubus could use more too.

DRAMIEL____640 / 540 / 570___1750
DAREDEVIL__500 / 650 / 620___1770
SUCCUBUS__720 / 510 / 560___1790

The Web range bonus on the Cruor is useful to counter kiters, with overheated faction webs I think the range is like 36km... that's extremely useful regardless of the range of your weapons, for either closing down or for GTFO. Nice buff imo, looks like it's got good survivability in solo low sec roams.

EDIT: also really liking the new Worm

If he does you will get just as close as he will and then they will have NO cap, and you will have all of it. sure they may still be able to fire sometimes with some weapons, but prop, most tanks, and point/web would struggle with what is basically a capless neut that recharges its users cap.
Also if you don't insist on only using it solo, it becomes a simply amazing support ship for any small gang. A long range web bonus is something that very few ships have and only 1 out of the non t2+ line, and only 2 of them can really fit a armor tank. Ok yes maybe the Cruor could be the perfect solo facwar ship, but your really looking at it from the wrong way. The Cruor sets the stage for the rest of the line and its range web bonus is ultimately more effective than a effectiveness bonus, as with it you can actually catch your opponent in the first place.

&
RISE, KEEP SANSHA SANSHA!

I really think the actual effectiveness of the Cruor mis-matched bonuses will remain a mystery until we get them on the test server. Their are definite pros and cons when looking at it on paper. To a lesser extent the effect of the proposed changes to the Worm and Succubus will also be interesting when they are actually flown instead of us just modifying our fitting tools.

ccp never chanes a ship so that someone that is able to fly it now will not be able to undock with it after the patch