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[Kronos] Pirate Faction Frigates

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Author
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#101 - 2014-02-25 15:39:24 UTC
Harvey James wrote:
TrouserDeagle wrote:
Harvey James wrote:

dramiel is supposed too be shield tanked



why


because that's what ISIS says .... shield tanked and masters of projectiles

the dramiel and daredevil need stronger focus on what they are supposed to be good at


maybe its versatility should extend to being equally good at both.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#102 - 2014-02-25 15:39:55 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
A similar situation for the Rattlesnake will come up as it is usually Sentries or bust with large drones.

Medium drones might need a tracking bonus on the Gila and a tracking and speed bonus on the Rattlesnake for heavies.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Verlaine Glariant
The Kudur Cult
#103 - 2014-02-25 15:40:39 UTC
I've been a Sansha pilot for ages, way before the Incursion Sansha-themed expansion came out.

The Sansha technology, as the lore of the game says, relies on heavy laser weaponry and unnaturallyd resilient shield defenses. What we have here is, shield, propulsion and weaponry they all eat capacitor, and let me say one thing: Sanshas capacitor is not precisely out or the ordinary. There are HACs with way better cap management. What we really have in fact are ships that can not maintain that shield tank they should excel at because the cap is dry when the battle just started (assuming you're not being cap-drained or cap-neutted).

So, when talking about Sansha ships, the problem is the capacitor.

In this case scenario, the reasonable path to follow would be simply add a Turret Capacitor Need bonus and Shield Modules Capacitor need bonus, and also increasing both capacitor capacity and capacitor recharge rate.

However this would never give the Sansha ships any sign of uniqueness (besides their alien shape, that is). The Afterburner nearly-exclusive bonus seems very interesting and you're going in the good direction, but you're not quite there yet. In my opinion, Sanshas need some kind of special unique ability that no other faction or ships could ever have.

Something like (and this is just an example) a built-in short-range (50km?) MJD, or reducing in a 15% per skill level the CD on MJD's. Please not that I'm using MJD's as an example. This idea could apply to any other abilities for the Sanshas.

Add to this the ability to join Pirate factions in FW and voilá! (and while you're at it, give us some FW exclusive skills/ships/modules).

Dreaming is free.

www.amphysvena.org

Black Canary Jnr
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#104 - 2014-02-25 15:40:41 UTC
Harvey James wrote:
also any chance of reducing prices on faction ships in general? paying 50 mil plus for a frig seems excessive


By my calculations lvl 4 pirate missions in a T3 for the BRs are worth about 60 mil an hour. Now they will be worth more with actual good ships, so no, thou shalt not have cheaper pirate ships.
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#105 - 2014-02-25 15:40:43 UTC
Hope Alar wrote:
Ayallah wrote:
All these cool abilities make the Dramiel seem kind of bland =/

I hope it doesn't go like the Rifter.


You could. you know, cross train? Doesn't take long.

I think everyone should cross train all frigates. Like Alar said, it doesn't take long. The flexibility and enjoyment are well worth it. Smile
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#106 - 2014-02-25 15:40:55 UTC
I appear to have misread the succubus bonus.

I thought it was a flat 20% bonus. It appears to be 20% per level. This is incredibly broken. I thought a 50% bonus was tested during the assault frigate rework, and was found to be unworkably broken, and this is a 100% bonus.
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#107 - 2014-02-25 15:41:08 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:
Additionally, the former missile velocity bonus will change to kinetic and thermal missile damage, giving Guristas even more punch. I understand that you will need specifics on the other two Guristas ships to make final opinions on the theme, but for now just look at the Worm and let us know if it seems fun and we'll go from there.


I would imagine you would do similar to the Rattlesnake and Gila as you did the Worm, a 300% damage and HP buff to 2 drones. The problem for the Gila is medium drones generally suck DPS wise and are in dire need of a balance pass which could/would put the Gila in an awkward spot if it is balanced for use with medium drones before medium drones are re-done.
A similar situation for the Rattlesnake will come up as it is usually Sentries or bust with large drones.


well the gila could have 3 drones if needed .. the 10% damage bonus on HAMS should be pretty nice on 4 launchers..
the extra tracking and speed of mediums will give better damage application anyway...

but where is the -1 slot for droneboats here??

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using

TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#108 - 2014-02-25 15:41:54 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
A similar situation for the Rattlesnake will come up as it is usually Sentries or bust with large drones.

Medium drones might need a tracking bonus on the Gila and a tracking and speed bonus on the Rattlesnake for heavies.


drones need a particular amount of tracking for their speed. medium drones to be usable as the main source of damage on a medium ship need to be much faster, and therefore to have a load more tracking as well. drone navs also need to increase tracking, imo.
Breselyer AnDu
Ashab Alliance
#109 - 2014-02-25 15:43:33 UTC
I hate it when they mess with the ships I like. They could have rebalanced by adding new ships, affordable ones!
People want more content not nit picking the bits we already have and messing up loadouts.
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#110 - 2014-02-25 15:44:11 UTC
TrouserDeagle wrote:
Harvey James wrote:
TrouserDeagle wrote:
Harvey James wrote:

dramiel is supposed too be shield tanked



why


because that's what ISIS says .... shield tanked and masters of projectiles

the dramiel and daredevil need stronger focus on what they are supposed to be good at


maybe its versatility should extend to being equally good at both.


the same versatility that minnie ships have? .. there needs to be more distinction between the 2 races..

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using

Hope Alar
Blue Tridents
#111 - 2014-02-25 15:44:25 UTC
Verlaine Glariant wrote:
I've been a Sansha pilot for ages, way before the Incursion Sansha-themed expansion came out.

The Sansha technology, as the lore of the game says, relies on heavy laser weaponry and unnaturallyd resilient shield defenses. What we have here is, shield, propulsion and weaponry they all eat capacitor, and let me say one thing: Sanshas capacitor is not precisely out or the ordinary. There are HACs with way better cap management. What we really have in fact are ships that can not maintain that shield tank they should excel at because the cap is dry when the battle just started (assuming you're not being cap-drained or cap-neutted).

So, when talking about Sansha ships, the problem is the capacitor.

In this case scenario, the reasonable path to follow would be simply add a Turret Capacitor Need bonus and Shield Modules Capacitor need bonus, and also increasing both capacitor capacity and capacitor recharge rate.

However this would never give the Sansha ships any sign of uniqueness (besides their alien shape, that is). The Afterburner nearly-exclusive bonus seems very interesting and you're going in the good direction, but you're not quite there yet. In my opinion, Sanshas need some kind of special unique ability that no other faction or ships could ever have.

Something like (and this is just an example) a built-in short-range (50km?) MJD, or reducing in a 15% per skill level the CD on MJD's. Please not that I'm using MJD's as an example. This idea could apply to any other abilities for the Sanshas.

Add to this the ability to join Pirate factions in FW and voilá! (and while you're at it, give us some FW exclusive skills/ships/modules).

Dreaming is free.


AB Bonus is 100% unique...there is no need to overbuff Sansha.
Tikktokk Tokkzikk
V0LTA
WE FORM V0LTA
#112 - 2014-02-25 15:44:48 UTC
The Dramiel needs something special other than "OP Firetail", in my opinion. Sansha got afterburners, Blood Raiders got webs and nosferatu, Guristas got super drones, Serpentis got 90% web and Angel got what? I wouldn't mind a nerf to the Angel ships if we got a special bonus like the other pirate races.
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#113 - 2014-02-25 15:46:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Harvey James
Michael Harari wrote:
I appear to have misread the succubus bonus.

I thought it was a flat 20% bonus. It appears to be 20% per level. This is incredibly broken. I thought a 50% bonus was tested during the assault frigate rework, and was found to be unworkably broken, and this is a 100% bonus.


yes... im intrigued by just how fast the sansha line of ships will be... but capacitor is something that needs the most attention on these ships... maybe allowing for a nos in the highs would be good but they never have the grid for it ..
lasers still need lower fitting.. i mean 7 cpu/pg difference between 200's and small focused pulse lasers is way too high

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using

Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
Tactical-Retreat
#114 - 2014-02-25 15:46:51 UTC
"Amarr Frigate Bonus:
20% bonus to Afterburner velocity bonus (was 5% energy turret damage)

Caldari Frigate Bonus:
7.5% bonus to Small Energy Turret tracking speed"

You should swap these two bonuses on the succubus. Right now it makes no sense at all :D

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Ultimate Citadel Guide - 2016 EVE Career Chart

TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#115 - 2014-02-25 15:47:43 UTC
Tikktokk Tokkzikk wrote:
The Dramiel needs something special other than "OP Firetail", in my opinion. Sansha got afterburners, Blood Raiders got webs and nosferatu, Guristas got super drones, Serpentis got 90% web and Angel got what? I wouldn't mind a nerf to the Angel ships if we got a special bonus like the other pirate races.


actual effective projectile turrets, ridiculous speed, sig, agility and scan res should be enough to make a decent ship.

if not though, I'm voting for split weapons, provided that light missiles are fixed before any more missile frigates are made.
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#116 - 2014-02-25 15:48:17 UTC
Tikktokk Tokkzikk wrote:
The Dramiel needs something special other than "OP Firetail", in my opinion. Sansha got afterburners, Blood Raiders got webs and nosferatu, Guristas got super drones, Serpentis got 90% web and Angel got what? I wouldn't mind a nerf to the Angel ships if we got a special bonus like the other pirate races.


mm... maybe something like an mwd sig radius bonus like the dictors get??
maybe in exchange for the tracking bonus or maybe added as an extra role bonus?
the SOE line has a ton of role bonuses but these seem too be limited to 1 ..odd

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using

Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#117 - 2014-02-25 15:49:44 UTC
TrouserDeagle wrote:
Tikktokk Tokkzikk wrote:
The Dramiel needs something special other than "OP Firetail", in my opinion. Sansha got afterburners, Blood Raiders got webs and nosferatu, Guristas got super drones, Serpentis got 90% web and Angel got what? I wouldn't mind a nerf to the Angel ships if we got a special bonus like the other pirate races.


actual effective projectile turrets, ridiculous speed, sig, agility and scan res should be enough to make a decent ship.

if not though, I'm voting for split weapons, provided that light missiles are fixed before any more missile frigates are made.


split weapons and being able to armour tank ... these are minnie traits .. the angel line needs more uniqueness and distinction away from minnie ships

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using

Anthar Thebess
#118 - 2014-02-25 15:50:54 UTC
Yes nice.

But if you are still on the frigate lever , BIG NEW EXPANSION , re balance.
Then when you will move to the battleship or capital ship level?

Or maybe you will add to one of those frigates :
- 20.000% damage against capital ships
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#119 - 2014-02-25 15:51:01 UTC
nm
Vadeim Rizen
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#120 - 2014-02-25 15:51:06 UTC
Dear Kil2

Please, do 2 things for me when you get around to faction cruisers

1) give the vigilant a much longer lock range. 40km isn't enough compared to deimos 120km lock rangel. ~70 should suffice.

2) make the cynabal worth flying again.

thanks!
♥ Vad