Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Most people are intrigued and are waiting to see how they function once they hit the test server. Then a select few are trying to get bonuses changed for nit picking or completely irrelevant reasons. The exception is the Cruor. Most are confused/concerned by it's conflicting bonuses.

So Sansha being the best speed tanking ships in the Eve universe doesn't seem out of place to you at all?

There are many valid complaints. For instance the a Gallente skill giving a missile bonus.... If you can't see how that is wrong then you need to stay away from balance.

Although it is not just that some of the bonuses are in direct contrast to the overarching concepts which exist within the game, there are also fitting and practical problems which I am aware of with the Succubus and Cruor.

As mentioned many times before, an afterburner bonus means that an afterburner is going to be a necessity on a ship which is renown for shield tanking. That means we are forced to drop a shield mod, and if we want to fit a MWD, then now we can't do that either unless we want to dual prop. Removing fitting options in a sand box is never desirable.

On top of that, we are also forced to reduce the shield further if we want to actually make use of the afterburner bonus as the more shield mods and rigs we fit, the more we lose in our speed tanking ability. The Sansha ships will just become a confused mess in terms of fitting, not to mention in terms of the lore.

I'll leave the Cruor to other people, although that would much better suit an afterburner bonus. Against small targets it may have some tracking problems, but at least it will allow it to get into range and stay there to nuet the target down. Personally though I prefer the 90% webs.

Incorrect, I am talking about both lore and also the performance of the ship. I'm not looking so much at balance as if anything an afterburner is possibly OP.

Also I do not run Incursions, although I do live out in null sec and make extensive use of Pirate ships, primarily Blood Raider and Sansha. I also respect the lore of the game, and really enjoy the Sansha and Blood Raider stories and philosophies on warfare and other such things and try to build my ships around such themes, a hit and run Sansha fleet does little for me, wheras on the other hand a hit and run Blood Raider war band is something which gets my interest.

I am hoping to find out one day how they are linked with each other, it is well known the blood raiders and sansha's have links with one another, and it would be a nice touch if the ships also reflected that.

A overarching lore which makes sense is one of the big draws of the game.

I agree that the AB bonus might be OP at its current magnitude. But it's an interesting bonus that gives the ship a specific ability, worthy of a pirate faction ship. One of the problems with current Sansha and Guristas ships is that they're simply generic gank and tank ship, lacking the special abilities of superior factions, such as the mobility of Angels, the neuts and webs of Blood Raiders and Serpentis. Although the proposed Worm looks powerful, I'm still worried that it lacks the special something.

Sansha doesn't, the AB bonus breaks Sansha out of that hole. Lore is nice and all, so just rewrite it. Blah blah blah... repeated failures of Sansha Incursions blah blah broke the strength of the Sansha fleet blah blah forced a change in tactics to faster more survivable ships blah. There you go.

An interesting proposal which I could support, although it seems a little lacklustre on paper, although like you say you have tested it out on Pyfa, and I don't have time to edit the database myself, so will take your word for it.

Personally I do like at least one additional high utility slot as it gives many more fitting options and more utility to the ship as the name implies, particularly on the frigate and cruiser. Although I can see why you have removed it in keeping with the theme of laser focused pure fleet ships. Also remember that the Sansha ships are already down one slot compared to other ships of their class, so there is room to add a completely new one.

I would suggest bumping up the damage bonus from 150% to 175%. As of now Serpentis already have a 200% bonus, and they also have an excellent Ewar ability. Heavy shields are good and all, but seeing as you are basing a theme around a pure focus on a super powered fleet ship, the damage dealing ability needs to reflect that. With the current trend of tiericide increasing the power of all ships, the pirate ships could get left behind.

Ever heard of the concept of weekend? And that ALl the deves involved in this thread are currently in New Eden Open covarage?


GEta rgip... this till take tiem to hit server and we are unlikely to see changes on the proposal before end of the week.

losing 15% on T2 webs isn't that HUGE a difference to render blasters useless and missiles are a different issue anyway .. they need the TE/TC/TD change ..... but other than neuts all e-war base stats are usually much weaker than on a bonused ship .. the fact that 60% webs are very effective on an unbonused ship tells you just how OP webs are atm... the change would also make serpentis ships much more useful at 67.5% - 45% webs on other unbonused ships

This is not a valid complaint given the hull it's on.

Remember that the Gallente did not collaborate with the Guristas to construct their ship line. The Guristas took Caldari ships, and revamped them. Who knows- maybe the handwaving for a Gallente skill giving a missile bonus is that they've incorporated systems that ordinarily augment hybrid turret damage into the missile bays (with modifications obviously), showing pirate ingenuity or somesuch?

I do not want the bonuses on the Worm to change just yet, and even moreso because someone thought that a bonus' origin "didn't fit with the lore", rather than "makes it OP as balls". Maybe the Nemesis was involved. Who knows.

Edit: I also see people wanting to remove a slot from the Worm outright.

No! Go away! This is a PIRATE FACTION SHIP; CCP themselves has distinctly ordained that they are to perform better than even T2 while having the flexibility of T1 (1). Of course, this was outlined at roughly the beginning of the rebalancing initiative (which they also have not strayed from so far with T2 or navy ships IMO), so I don't think many of you remember. If any slot wizardry happens on the Worm, I honestly think the useless third high should become a fifth mid. Which will help out a lot in giving us a shield brawler that uses missiles (and drones), rather than pigeonholing it into an LML+drones kiter. Without a missile velocity/range bonus.

1. Devblog "Rebalancing EVE, one ship at a time", CCP Ytterbium 06.03.2012 19:21

Bold Point 1: This is a garbage generalization applied mainly to T1 and T2 ships which I've just made a post about, and how pirate faction ships interact with them in terms of improvement. If Pirate faction ships are to be superior I see no better way to do that than to unlink them with the horrible malus of -1 arbitrary slot. (Though if you'll look at my previous post, I do think the third high should become a mid if anything does happen to it.)

Bold Point 2: I have done math. You are no longer doing a piddly 50DPS with missiles. Your two launchers are doing ~91 DPS. This is superior to the Punisher. That's without a BCS, too. If you slap on a BCS, you're doing 103. While your drones do ~111. The missiles on the new Worm are not useless- not by a long shot. You know how the Bellicose is a bit of a missiles/drones blend? Yeah. The Guristas ships are going to be kind of like that, with the balance tipped slightly more in favour of drones than missiles. Step out of the past, and look at the new ship without bias towards it's lackluster first iteration.

And for the love of ****stop trying to justify the removal of the missile bonus with "HURR DURR GALLENTE DONT INTO MISSILE U STUPID IF U THIKN THEY DO". This is a Gurista frigate. At least come up with a better argument than "but gallente don't use missiles".

Fine, how about justifying it with the fact that it would be the only time in the entire game that a Gallente skill is used to buff missiles. The ship uses Caldari skills, so the missiles could more sensibly be attached to that. Or it could just stay with a flat hull bonus like it uses currently. If the ship was just going to rely on Gallente skills, then I guess using Gallente skills to bonus missiles would be the only option. But it isn't. And everyone is questioning it because it just looks like it is put on as an after thought without any consideration for how the skill is used in a broader sense.

Or, even better, we could realize like we did with past ship balancing that split weapons are not optimal, and use the Gallente skill to boost drones like usual, and forget boosting missiles in favor of some other non damage bonus to give the ship more utility than dumping out a bunch of damage.

Even with the current weird drone bonus and the completely bizarre Gallente missile bonus, the Worm will easily be out classed by most Assault Frigates. They will do as much damage, and as fast or faster, and the T2 resists will come pretty close to what the Worm's Caldari shield resists provide.


If the Worm is meant to be a slow but tanky brawler, 5 lights with the usual Gallente 10%/level damage bonus and a couple DDA's is enough. The hull bonus should be something like a scram bonus to keep faster ships from just running away.

And if CCP is dead set on going to the few-but-powerful drone scheme, at least use the Gallente bonus to give the drones better velocity/tracking/range. Those are the bonuses that make the other Gallente drone boats so awesome now. The raw damage bonus doesn't mean much if it takes the drones forever to reach the target or can't track it.