Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Hello CCP Rise,

i understand that the 'old' Dramiel had some balance issues scratching on the edge of being overpowered and has gotten a slight mobility, and a somewhat severe fitting reduction to bring it in line with other ships back then.
After that, a general Frigate Balance pass was brought out, with the whole T1 lineup becoming as awesome as it is now.
A Navy-Frigate Rebalance has also been deployed already, especially notable here is how the Firetail went from 'Rifter MK2' to a ... well, Rifter MK7? Dramiel Lite? Whatever it has become, i like it.
However, if i want to upgrade from a Firetail to another Frigate that is similar in it's versatility and general stats, but just better, ... i run into a dilemma.
Either i try the Dramiel, easy to get the same performance like a Firetail, but to get significantly better and to justify the pricetag, i have to put in so much ISK (not for better modules, but for making all the stuff actually FIT that i want to put on there!), that i really can't justify the pricetag. For me it feels like i need to pimp it out so much, that i have the ability to gtfo whenever needed, that i have to play supersafe. Like, OGB, Pirate-Imps, Backup-Griffins. (Note: When i do frigate PvP, it's mostly inside FW space, ... since almost no frig can pick on cruisers or above on their own today.)
I don't like this, i like true solo piloting. Which is okay, i can make the Dram cheaper *cough* and end up with 10 times the pricetag for basically just better topspeed and slightly better caplife.
If i want to go into Assault-Frigates, i have another serious issue: Mobility. I might have by far better stats regarding dps, tank and stuff, but it comes at a cost of nearly 400m/s if i adapt my Firetail onto a Jaguar.

So all in all, the Firetail seems to me like the golden mid of Jag and Dramiel, for a fracture of the pricetag of each.
Now please don't get me wrong, don't you even dare nerfing the firetail, but is there any hope to get at least *SOME* notable changes for the Dramiel? ... Or the Jaguar? It could really use base-speed. Look at it, Rise. It's so damn slow, there are some cruisers that have similar speeds. Man, the other AFs are even slower!

Okay, this got slightly offtopic now, so summary:

Dramiel no real upgrade from Firetail, it's more of a T1 Interceptor, without the Warp-Speed, without the Bubble-Immunity, without the tank, at a lot more of the pricetag, so maybe it's time to push it into a more combat than just speed orientated role? For example: Cut some topspeed, give back fittings?

Slower? The Cruor is on par with gallente frigates. It its base speed is higher than most amarr and caldari frigates. So how is it slower?

Or were you only comparing it to other 4 pirate frigates out of which 3 happens to be based on high mobility?

Generally I think the web range bonus is extremely powerful. Especially in catching ships at gates. I can axpect a lot of loki and rapiers being exchanged for this little bugger.

Why slower? Because once counterwebbed and counterscrammed oponent will be completely dictating range and able to comfortably keep himself out of pitiful range of small neuts.

Web range bonus is powerful, but if you expect 100k+ ehp lokis or covert rapiers that can fit multiple webs being exchanged for 100m isk frig that can fit at most one web and has pathetic ehp, then just Not to mention that on any non reg gate skirmish boosted 90% webs so much better its not even contest.

I am glad to see a missile damage bonus that is Kinetic/Thermal rather than just Kinetic, however I thought CCP was moving away from the old type specific damage bonus of missiles when they began rebalancing using the RoF bonus.

I would have thought the pirate factions would receive an RoF bonus rather than the type specific bonus we generally see on Caldari ships.

Are we going to see more ships receive a mixed missle damage bonus similar to this one? Are we moving away from a RoF bonus completely?

I still dont get it.

Max velocity / mass
Tristan: 325 / 956,000
Cruor: 330 / 1,003,000
Tormentor: 335 / 1,080,000

All of these ships are going to use same armor tank. So how is cruor any slowe than those? Sure it is not fastest frigate. It s on the lower end of spectrum. But I still dont see an issue.

Well the lock time may play the role as well as price. But I might be wrong as I did never gate camp myself.

I think its a bit over-simplistic to say that a 90% web is twice as strong as an 80% web. Just as an illustrative example, when doing incursions in my vindi, I learned that a 80% web and a 90% web are pretty much exactly the same while the target is slowing down. Its many many seconds before the 90% web starts actually showing its strength, and the target was often long dead before that.

It should be obvious to anyone that a long range web and a strong web are different and one is not superior to the other in all situations.

So what your saying is that nerfing from 90% to 80% web sternght would have barely no effect. In that case do it already!

I don't see people using the Curor getting more use after these changes.

The web range bonus doesn't synergize with the short range of neut/nos and you can't project with scorch out that far because you have no weapons range bonus.

The PG was nerfed by 14%!!!

rise you promised

holy jesus will people PLEASE lay off trying to give these things freaking EWAR BONUSES??? They're COMBAT ships, for God's sake! Webs work fine with serpentis because they are strictly in relation to how they perform direct combat, and something silly like tracking disruption or ecm makes no sense on these boats when you have such strong, cheap ewar available elsewhere. Give sansha a range bonus instead of AB, and give some sig-reducing or speed-increasing bonus to Angels and you'll be fine.

Also, drop the web bonuses to the blood raider boats and have them focus on neuts. Cruor and ashimmu with extended nos range would be perfect; ashimmu has 4 mids so it can fit double web. Problems solved.