These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

[Kronos] Pirate Faction Frigates

First post First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Shepard Wong Ogeko
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#801 - 2014-02-26 20:11:48 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Hi guys sorry for the space between posts, I wasn't in the office today, and I'm still not Sad

There's two things I can say, one is that we are going to change the Succubus role bonus damage from 125% to 150% to keep the damage potential the same as before. Thanks someone in the thread for pointing that out.

Second, I'll try to put together a longer post tomorrow addressing the conversations around the missile bonus on the Worm and the web bonus on the Cruor. For now I have to leave you with just this though =/

Thanks



The Worm should either be a missile boat or a drone boat. Split weapons ships are either a pain to fit, or you end up having to ignore one of the weapons to get the most out of the other.

Personally, I like the Worm as a tanky tackle frigate with some decent drone damage. There are plenty of ships that do damage. If you want to make the Worm unique, give it some e-war bonus. ECM is fitting for Guristas, but a scram range would be useful too.
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
#802 - 2014-02-26 20:22:48 UTC
A lot has been made of drone assist, but its really an insignificant thing to cause such a huge amount of butthurt.

All it does is allow you to tell your drones to attack the same thing someone else attacks. Your drones, using only the ability of your ship, wait for the chosen ship to fire or be fired upon, and then attack that enemy until dead. If the ship is already firing, they have to stop their guns and start them again for the drone to know to attack. If the enemy is already fireing on the assisted ship they will not attack unless some new attack is begun.

Nothing about this is affected in any way by the assisted ship other than the selection of target, and some of the rules and behavior of that is pretty clunky at times. The enemy attacked must be within the drone control range of the drone ship, as do the drones themselves.

It can be used to somewhat circumvent the locktime restrictions of larger ships as the drones themselves lock everything in 4 seconds, and they choose what to lock based upon their settings--- so if told to assist a frigate, and that frigate locks and then fires on something the drones will individually lock and fire on that thing too, without need for the drone ship to have locked anything.

That is all it is, other than the arbitrary new rule about only 50 drones being able to watch a single ship to see what it fires at.

The Worm, and if the trend continues up the chain all the other Gurista ships, will be able to make more effective use of this mechanic as their drones will be worth 4 of any other ships' drones. It does not have to be a sentry, but only sentries have inspired the rage as they are direct fireing rather than requiring flight time to target and so deliver much more efficient alpha strikes this way.
Valterra Craven
#803 - 2014-02-26 20:42:28 UTC
Windman Advena wrote:
WORM

Gallente Frigate Bonus:
10% bonus to light combat drone damage and hitpoints (was 5m3 Drone Bay Capacity per level)

Caldari Frigate Bonus:
4% bonus to all shield resistances

Role Bonus:
100% bonus to light combat drone damage and hitpoints (was 50% bonus to Rocket and Light Missile velocity)

.


Someone was mentioning earlier how they really liked the versatility of the worm before hand as it could used with support drones. I really like that idea for this ship, and I like the old nos bonus proposed on the other ships.

So I've modified your idea slightly to this:

WORM

Gallente Frigate Bonus:
10% bonus to light drone effectiveness and hitpoints (was 5m3 Drone Bay Capacity per level)

Caldari Frigate Bonus:
4% bonus to all shield resistances

Role Bonus:
100% bonus to light combat drone damage
and 100% bonus to all light drone hitpoints (was 50% bonus to Rocket and Light Missile velocity)

This way you bonus other types of drones as well as combat drones to give this ship a unique flavor, without the stupid missile bonus that Rise likes to keep gimping missile boats with. Another poster mentioned that ships that get this bonus get more missile slots, but I don't think that's happening here to compensate. In other case I can attest to the resist profiles of t2 ships in general being insane in regards to those two damage types (have you looked at the Astarte recently?!) Even if people were to fill em/explosion holes, they are still going to be weaker against those types just because the therm/kin bonus is so dang high.
Leafar Nightfall
Silent Owls
#804 - 2014-02-26 20:50:49 UTC
Mike Voidstar wrote:

That is all it is, other than the arbitrary new rule about only 50 drones being able to watch a single ship to see what it fires at.

The Worm, and if the trend continues up the chain all the other Gurista ships, will be able to make more effective use of this mechanic as their drones will be worth 4 of any other ships' drones. It does not have to be a sentry, but only sentries have inspired the rage as they are direct fireing rather than requiring flight time to target and so deliver much more efficient alpha strikes this way.


That's the part that I'm worried about

Like I said, I'm not intimate of drone assistance or drone assisted combats at all. But what I see is that with 25 Worms you'd be able to have a ship drone assisted by 200 "effective" drones. The closer you'd have to it today would be 10 Vexors lending their "7.5" effective drones which for 75 "effective" drones assisting, as their 7.5 cost 5 drones compared to the worms 8/2 ratio.

It may not become common or game breaking, but I see it as "exploitable" and contradictory. I see people complaining about excessive assignment of drones to one person, Devs propose capping it to 50 per ship, and on the other hand you'll have it "exploitable" to 200 effective drones per ship...
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
#805 - 2014-02-26 21:00:14 UTC
Leafar Nightfall wrote:
Mike Voidstar wrote:

That is all it is, other than the arbitrary new rule about only 50 drones being able to watch a single ship to see what it fires at.

The Worm, and if the trend continues up the chain all the other Gurista ships, will be able to make more effective use of this mechanic as their drones will be worth 4 of any other ships' drones. It does not have to be a sentry, but only sentries have inspired the rage as they are direct fireing rather than requiring flight time to target and so deliver much more efficient alpha strikes this way.


That's the part that I'm worried about

Like I said, I'm not intimate of drone assistance or drone assisted combats at all. But what I see is that with 25 Worms you'd be able to have a ship drone assisted by 200 "effective" drones. The closer you'd have to it today would be 10 Vexors lending their "7.5" effective drones which for 75 "effective" drones assisting, as their 7.5 cost 5 drones compared to the worms 8/2 ratio.

It may not become common or game breaking, but I see it as "exploitable" and contradictory. I see people complaining about excessive assignment of drones to one person, Devs propose capping it to 50 per ship, and on the other hand you'll have it "exploitable" to 200 effective drones per ship...


The problem with worring about it is that its not a real problem.

You get much the same effect by broadcasting a target and everyone firing at it. You dont even need all that quick reflexes, as the game runs in ticks of one second anyway. It was not an issue on anyones radar despite drones having always worked this way until the gallente ships got the range/tracking bonus (and Goonswarm decided it had to go). Logically so long as Gurista ships dont have that bonus then the mechanic is as balanced as it ever was, and there should still be no issue.
Silivar Karkun
Doomheim
#806 - 2014-02-26 21:05:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Silivar Karkun
Silivar Karkun wrote:
WORM

Gallente Frigate Bonus:
12% bonus to drone damage and hitpoints per lvl

Caldari Frigate Bonus:
10% to rocket and light missile max velocity

Role Bonus:
90% to drone microwarpdrive speed, tracking, falloff range and optimal range

drone bandwidth/drone bay: 25/50

12% drone damage and hitpoints equals to 3 aditional drones at lvl V skills, thus giving 8 effective drones, the 90% bonus makes unnecesary to use other drone mods apart of the damage ones, so the ship can focus in tank or other uses for its midslots

90% == 3 DNCs II/Omnis II without stacking penalty (totals to 90% speed, 90% optimal and falloff and 45% tracking)

with those statistics:

5 hobs II == 264 DPS (using 3 DDAs II)

now add T2 LMLs with Fury == 264+39 == 303 DPS (309 with rockets and Rage) that without adding implants and links and aditional rigs (guess people will shove drone durability enhancers instead of any missile stuff)

as a tradeoff the ship looses its resistance bonus..


gona quote this again, think of it at the following, the difference in a shield droneboat is that it needs to decide either drone mods or tank mods if not other things, this doesnt happen in an armor ship that can just fit whatever number of mods they want without gimping their tanking capabilities.

with this proposition the Gila and the Rattlesnake can get more tank or put ganking mods without worrying about drone mods, the ship sacrifices its 4% resistance bonus for the bonus of having the equivalente to 3 non penalized drone mods included in hull, thus allowing it to tank more than it should do in its current state, or include things like jamming modules and that stuff. at the same time the ship keeps the powr of 8 drones at lvl V skills and a missile range bonus, so players can both kite and brawl, depending on what they want to do
Ransu Asanari
Perkone
Caldari State
#807 - 2014-02-26 21:24:49 UTC
Please don't let this conversation go back into a discussion on drone assist.

I fear that the drone bonus idea for the Worm won't be unique, as it seems like a test solution to the meta changes around drones to reduce server load by reducing the number of drones in space. I hope I'm wrong here, but the change was already done to drones once (Drone Interfacing skill making drones more effective, instead of putting out more drones), so I hope CCP is taking the long view on this change.

If this type of bonus is going to stay with just the Guristas line, then it might be unique and interesting. If it will eventually be carried over to most other drone ships to reduce the number of drones in space, and help with server load, then it really doesn't add to the flavor for the Guristas ships at all.

It also bothers me that neither of the Caldari skill based pirate factions (Sansha/Guristas) have any bonus to EWAR (ECM). Blood Raiders Neut/Vamp, Serpentis have Webs. At least in Incursions, Sansha rats jam, and Guristas definitely do. I know it was said that it was because EWAR drones haven't been rebalanced yet, but I don't know about ECM itself. It's been mentioned a few times, but there's been no discussion on it for a while. This might be an interesting way to go to get away from the split weapon system for missiles.
Silvetica Dian
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#808 - 2014-02-26 21:33:29 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Hi guys sorry for the space between posts, I wasn't in the office today, and I'm still not Sad

There's two things I can say, one is that we are going to change the Succubus role bonus damage from 125% to 150% to keep the damage potential the same as before. Thanks someone in the thread for pointing that out.

Second, I'll try to put together a longer post tomorrow addressing the conversations around the missile bonus on the Worm and the web bonus on the Cruor. For now I have to leave you with just this though =/

Thanks



Most of us love the new ships designs with just a few people making a ton of noise like always. The missile damage on the worm is a minor component of the dps and is fine. The cruor having a range bonus on the web so that it it can get into neut range is also fine.
These ships all look well thought through and everyone is excited for the changes and actually seeing these ships in combat.

Money at its root is a form of rationing. When the richest 85 people have as much wealth as the poorest 3.5 billion (50% of humanity) it is clear where the source of poverty is. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/20/trickle-down-economics-broken-promise-richest-85
Ransu Asanari
Perkone
Caldari State
#809 - 2014-02-26 21:53:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Ransu Asanari
-edit- Silvetica Dian going to disagree with you there. Don't speak for all of us.

CCP Rise wrote:
Second, I'll try to put together a longer post tomorrow addressing the conversations around the missile bonus on the Worm and the web bonus on the Cruor. For now I have to leave you with just this though =/

A few people pointed it out properly that the Worm with a T1 resist profile needs to kite to survive, and removing the missile velocity bonus makes it difficult to apply that damage. If the Guristas line is going to remain missile ships, make the missile bonuses matter- otherwise it's a waste for a damage source which is pretty much secondary.

CCP Rise wrote:
And I've also seen at least one person say they thought we were done with damage type specific bonuses, and we are not. It's a nice tool to use in certain places.

I stated earlier that I really don't want to see ships with damage specific missile bonuses, as one of the advantage of missiles is the ability to select their damage type. It's almost never worth selecting to an unbonused damage type - someone would have to do the math on how low the resist hole would need to be to be worth it, but I think it would need to be pretty low.

It makes no sense why specific ships would have a bonus only to one type of missile damage, when the ships are capable of loading all missile types. This type of bonus reduces the flexibility of the weapon system and makes fights more predictable, since the opponent will easily know based on the ship type what resist they should use.

I don't see any other weapon systems using this type of bonus - it would be like arbitrarily making a ship like the Brutix have only a bonus to Thermal damage, or the Maller only do EM damage, despite the weapon system being capable of both types. Think of the upset that would cause.
Medalyn Isis
Doomheim
#810 - 2014-02-26 22:16:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Medalyn Isis
Ransu Asanari wrote:
It also bothers me that neither of the Caldari skill based pirate factions (Sansha/Guristas) have any bonus to EWAR (ECM). Blood Raiders Neut/Vamp, Serpentis have Webs. At least in Incursions, Sansha rats jam, and Guristas definitely do. I know it was said that it was because EWAR drones haven't been rebalanced yet, but I don't know about ECM itself. It's been mentioned a few times, but there's been no discussion on it for a while. This might be an interesting way to go to get away from the split weapon system for missiles.

I agree, giving Sansha ships an afterburner bonus seems as though it was just a case of, "we don't know what to do to make these ships more pvp, so lets just throw an afterburner on it", not considering all the more Caldari options available.

Making the Caldari skill give an afterburner bonus, (Caldari, renown for the slowest ships in the universe), makes very little sense to me.

Also the high tech Sansha's should have a more ingenious solution, just stick a bigger rocket pack on the back and make it go faster is something the Minmatar would do, not Sansha.

Another problem, putting an afterburner on a sansha ship means giving up a mid slot, in many cases that mid slot will be used for a shield mod, so using this afterburner bonus means you are sacrificing your shield. That is ok for a frigate, not so great for the phantasm, and awful for the Nightmare. What is the point of the bonus when it only works well on one ship.

I would much rather see something along the lines of an Ewar bonus, I was thinking Ewar drones, as that is unique, fits in with the lore as caldari use Ewar, and also Sansha love jamming things, and Amarr use drones quite a bit, so it would make some sense.

The other option I'm keen on is a 4% shield resist bonus, that way you are making the Sansha ships something you can't tackle head on in a similar sized ship, just pure shielded behemoth's which melt stuff. That is pretty much what they are renowned for now, but in the case of the Phantasm and Succubus, are not doing so well.

There are lots of interesting options, but although an afterburner bonus seems like it could be interesting on the frigate, there are too many reasons why it doesn't make sense, and too many other options which would be better.

I hope CCP Rise will look at the Sansha line up again as he did with the Industrials and as he has done with other ships in the past.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#811 - 2014-02-26 22:29:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyberius Franklin
Ransu Asanari wrote:
I stated earlier that I really don't want to see ships with damage specific missile bonuses, as one of the advantage of missiles is the ability to select their damage type. It's almost never worth selecting to an unbonused damage type - someone would have to do the math on how low the resist hole would need to be to be worth it, but I think it would need to be pretty low.

It makes no sense why specific ships would have a bonus only to one type of missile damage, when the ships are capable of loading all missile types. This type of bonus reduces the flexibility of the weapon system and makes fights more predictable, since the opponent will easily know based on the ship type what resist they should use.

I don't see any other weapon systems using this type of bonus - it would be like arbitrarily making a ship like the Brutix have only a bonus to Thermal damage, or the Maller only do EM damage, despite the weapon system being capable of both types. Think of the upset that would cause.

Other weapons don't have the bonus limited to a particular type specifically because they are limited in damage type already. A hybrid damage bonus cannot bonus anything but Therm/Kin. Same with lasers and EM/therm. Projectiles don't have perfect selection and are limited to Kin/Ex with their T2 ammo in addition to missing ammo strong in some types at different ranges (No Kin focused SR ammo for instance).

Missiles can still switch to unbonused types which is a flexibility 2 other weapons don't have. And if the predictability of missiles really is causing people to fit against bonused types they would be opening the resists holes necessary to make switching worth while.
Dersen Lowery
The Scope
#812 - 2014-02-26 22:58:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Dersen Lowery
Vaju Enki wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Vaju Enki wrote:
About the Worm, i think some of you are missing the point, overpowered is not a synonym of fun.

The Worm should remain a shield tanked frigate(Caldari) with 5/10 drones(Gallente), balance the ship bonus around this.

Fun is subjective, for instance, drones with greater survivability would be more fun for me, which is what the current worm proposal gives.


5/10 drones with better survivability would work, their is no need to have two super mega brutal drones of doom on the Worm.


This makes me want to ask CCP Rise to take the final step, and push the Worm out with a 700% bonus to one drone.

Then we can cheer our brave little hero drone as it blackens the skies with the wrecks of our enemies!

(Until it got jammed or TD'd, anyway. But you have to admit, it'd be fun!)

Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.

I voted in CSM X!
CraftyCroc
Fraternity Alliance Please Ignore
#813 - 2014-02-26 23:18:08 UTC
Give the min race a warp speed buff! .. Dare I say a speed buff aswell- making the frigs viable tackle in null again.

Would scale up well.

Vaga's almost= Cyna's

Should not be the case

Mach - the warp speed for this ship is currently ridiculous
Ransu Asanari
Perkone
Caldari State
#814 - 2014-02-26 23:20:13 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Other weapons don't have the bonus limited to a particular type specifically because they are limited in damage type already. A hybrid damage bonus cannot bonus anything but Therm/Kin. Same with lasers and EM/therm. Projectiles don't have perfect selection and are limited to Kin/Ex with their T2 ammo in addition to missing ammo strong in some types at different ranges (No Kin focused SR ammo for instance).

Missiles can still switch to unbonused types which is a flexibility 2 other weapons don't have. And if the predictability of missiles really is causing people to fit against bonused types they would be opening the resists holes necessary to make switching worth while.


Well that gets into a whole discussion around the advantages/disadvantages and differences between weapon systems. They're pretty balanced:

- Gun tracking speed against explosion velocity/radius bonuses
- Gun Optimal/Falloff against Missile flight time
- Gun ROF vs Missile ROF
- Gun instant damage application with limited damage types, against missile delayed damage with more damage versatility
- Gun potential for misses and critical hits vs missile damage consistency
- Different susceptibility to EWAR and countermeasures (Tracking Distruption vs Firewalling) but that's again a whole other discussion.

My problem is if we can assert that the weapon systems are fairly balanced and different in their application, and they all have their strengths and weaknesses. You want the different ships to play to the strengths of those weapon systems, and that's why I don't like seeing the missile damage versatility gimped - whether by limiting the damage types by hull, or extremely long reload times.
Itago Gemulus
Station Spinners United
#815 - 2014-02-26 23:50:04 UTC
Ransu Asanari wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Other weapons don't have the bonus limited to a particular type specifically because they are limited in damage type already. A hybrid damage bonus cannot bonus anything but Therm/Kin. Same with lasers and EM/therm. Projectiles don't have perfect selection and are limited to Kin/Ex with their T2 ammo in addition to missing ammo strong in some types at different ranges (No Kin focused SR ammo for instance).

Missiles can still switch to unbonused types which is a flexibility 2 other weapons don't have. And if the predictability of missiles really is causing people to fit against bonused types they would be opening the resists holes necessary to make switching worth while.


Well that gets into a whole discussion around the advantages/disadvantages and differences between weapon systems. They're pretty balanced:

- Gun tracking speed against explosion velocity/radius bonuses
- Gun Optimal/Falloff against Missile flight time
- Gun ROF vs Missile ROF
- Gun instant damage application with limited damage types, against missile delayed damage with more damage versatility
- Gun potential for misses and critical hits vs missile damage consistency
- Different susceptibility to EWAR and countermeasures (Tracking Distruption vs Firewalling) but that's again a whole other discussion.

My problem is if we can assert that the weapon systems are fairly balanced and different in their application, and they all have their strengths and weaknesses. You want the different ships to play to the strengths of those weapon systems, and that's why I don't like seeing the missile damage versatility gimped - whether by limiting the damage types by hull, or extremely long reload times.





This is all good in theory, but looking at BS's there is an inconsitence where guns get stronger bonuses to either efective weapons or application (more than 8 effective turrets, 7.5% tracking to name 2)
Fabulous Rod
Darkfall Corp
#816 - 2014-02-27 00:09:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Fabulous Rod
"Guristas: This has probably been the hardest faction to figure out. The Rattlesnake and Gila both have their uses but are both overshadowed in many ways by the new Ishtar and Dominix. We wanted Guristas to keep a drone theme but to move in a new and unique direction rather than trying to compete directly with other popular drone ships. As the Worm shows below, we are looking at giving each Guristas ship a bandwidth that allows for only two drones, but a large damage and hitpoint bonus to those drones, leading to very high overall drone damage and toughness. Additionally, the former missile velocity bonus will change to kinetic and thermal missile damage, giving Guristas even more punch. I understand that you will need specifics on the other two Guristas ships to make final opinions on the theme, but for now just look at the Worm and let us know if it seems fun and we'll go from there."


**** you. People spent years training for these skill intensive pirate faction ships and now you want to move in a "new and unique direction"? Guristas already uniquely combine the best drone and missile combo and you want to gimp them and make them niche?.

Really, **** you worthless devs and your careless ventures in "rebalancing". Bunch of inconsiderate assholes is what you are.
Hoshi Sorano
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#817 - 2014-02-27 00:11:28 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
  • It's been mentioned that the missile damage bonus on the Worm doesn't make sense as a Gallente bonus and should be on the role bonus. I agree that it would be ideal to have it that way in terms of flavor but giving a 60% per level bonus would mean that the ship was basically unusable until you had Gallente Frigate 5 and we really don't like that.

    • I see; so basically the lore of this game should be written on toilet paper for all the respect you have for it? You recognize that it's there, but you have no use for it aside from flushing it down the drain. Gallente are not missile specialists; there is absolutely no reason for a traditional Caldari missile bonus to be tied to a Gallente skill! The worst part is that there are any number of ways to do this differently and still maintain the lore, but you apparently don't care enough to put forth the effort.

    If you can't figure out a way to put the missile bonus under the Caldari skill or as a role bonus, then take it out. If something doesn't fit, stop forcing it. If you have to have another weapons bonus (on top of the drones), then you could easily make it a hybrid turret bonus instead; it would maintain the same damage types and it would be thematically appropriate for both Gallente and Caldari.
    Sexy Cakes
    Have A Seat
    #818 - 2014-02-27 00:14:21 UTC
    Terrible idea bringing the old school NOS effect.

    I will say no more.

    Not today spaghetti.
    Omnathious Deninard
    University of Caille
    Gallente Federation
    #819 - 2014-02-27 00:22:51 UTC
    Fabulous Rod wrote:
    "Guristas: This has probably been the hardest faction to figure out. The Rattlesnake and Gila both have their uses but are both overshadowed in many ways by the new Ishtar and Dominix. We wanted Guristas to keep a drone theme but to move in a new and unique direction rather than trying to compete directly with other popular drone ships. As the Worm shows below, we are looking at giving each Guristas ship a bandwidth that allows for only two drones, but a large damage and hitpoint bonus to those drones, leading to very high overall drone damage and toughness. Additionally, the former missile velocity bonus will change to kinetic and thermal missile damage, giving Guristas even more punch. I understand that you will need specifics on the other two Guristas ships to make final opinions on the theme, but for now just look at the Worm and let us know if it seems fun and we'll go from there."


    **** you. People spent years training for these skill intensive pirate faction ships and now you want to move in a "new and unique direction"? Guristas already uniquely combine the best drone and missile combo and you want to gimp them and make them niche?.

    Really, **** you worthless devs and your careless ventures in "rebalancing". Bunch of inconsiderate assholes is what you are.

    Butt hurt much? The Worm has lost nothing in terms of power and gained 60% drone damage, 300% drone HP, 50% missile damage for 2 types, increased power grid, and increased CPU at the cost of; What 3 drone models in space?

    If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
    Mike Voidstar
    Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
    #820 - 2014-02-27 00:25:12 UTC
    Fabulous Rod wrote:
    "Guristas: This has probably been the hardest faction to figure out. The Rattlesnake and Gila both have their uses but are both overshadowed in many ways by the new Ishtar and Dominix. We wanted Guristas to keep a drone theme but to move in a new and unique direction rather than trying to compete directly with other popular drone ships. As the Worm shows below, we are looking at giving each Guristas ship a bandwidth that allows for only two drones, but a large damage and hitpoint bonus to those drones, leading to very high overall drone damage and toughness. Additionally, the former missile velocity bonus will change to kinetic and thermal missile damage, giving Guristas even more punch. I understand that you will need specifics on the other two Guristas ships to make final opinions on the theme, but for now just look at the Worm and let us know if it seems fun and we'll go from there."


    **** you. People spent years training for these skill intensive pirate faction ships and now you want to move in a "new and unique direction"? Guristas already uniquely combine the best drone and missile combo and you want to gimp them and make them niche?.

    Really, **** you worthless devs and your careless ventures in "rebalancing". Bunch of inconsiderate assholes is what you are.


    I don't see the gimping here. I see a significant damage increase at the price of some missile range. The only functional problem with the drones is a much increased vunerability to Ewar, at a reduced vunerability to feeding the AI's dark hunger for drones.

    What is wrong with it?