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[Kronos] Pirate Faction Frigates

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Justin Cody
War Firm
#741 - 2014-02-26 15:11:25 UTC
TAckermassacker wrote:
Angel Cartel is in my oppinion the main looser of the warp speed changes, and the long time until it lands and the low chance to escape of a Machariel is the reason why the price is falling.

I would suggest a 25-50% Role Bonus to warp speed for all Angel ships.

  • would fit to the Story
  • would serve a niche for hit and run ships
  • would make a dram compareable to ceptors again



no, get out, angels don't need a boost. if anything agility needs to be nerf'd into the ground (slightly better than a typhoon).
Crysantos Callahan
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#742 - 2014-02-26 15:11:40 UTC
I think the changes will help the "less loved" pirate issues to be a bit more popular.

But something I don't get - why racial damage boni on the worm for missiles. Either give it a general damage boni, rof, whatever - or make it a real drone platform and add some dps/speed/tracking to the light drones. The split weapons on a frig just won't make it any more popular than it is right now.

Not sure if the introduction of the old nos is a good idea, tho.
Jon Joringer
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#743 - 2014-02-26 15:20:03 UTC
Going to have to chime in on the Blood speed issue: if long range webs are staying, then they simply need more speed (especially the Cruor/Ashimmu). It makes sense for Blood ships to be more agile and faster anyway, they're half Minmatar tech. They get lasers and neuts/nos from Amarr and they should get speed/agility and web bonuses from Minmatar. Otherwise, these long range webs, be they for kiting or catching targets out of scram range, aren't gong to do much good because most things are still going to be faster.
Silivar Karkun
Doomheim
#744 - 2014-02-26 15:28:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Silivar Karkun
WORM

Gallente Frigate Bonus:
12% bonus to drone damage and hitpoints per lvl

Caldari Frigate Bonus:
10% to rocket and light missile max velocity

Role Bonus:
90% to drone microwarpdrive speed, tracking, falloff range and optimal range

drone bandwidth/drone bay: 25/50

12% drone damage and hitpoints equals to 3 aditional drones at lvl V skills, thus giving 8 effective drones, the 90% bonus makes unnecesary to use other drone mods apart of the damage ones, so the ship can focus in tank or other uses for its midslots

90% == 3 DNCs II/Omnis II without stacking penalty (totals to 90% speed, 90% optimal and falloff and 45% tracking)

with those statistics:

5 hobs II == 264 DPS (using 3 DDAs II)

now add T2 LMLs with Fury == 264+39 == 303 DPS (309 with rockets and Rage) that without adding implants and links and aditional rigs (guess people will shove drone durability enhancers instead of any missile stuff)

as a tradeoff the ship looses its resistance bonus..
Medalyn Isis
Doomheim
#745 - 2014-02-26 15:34:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Medalyn Isis
Mike Whiite wrote:
Although I like most of the changes.

Couldn't we use the reballance to give the Shansa line somthing Caldari?

at the moment it's one of the least recognisable lines in Pirates ships.

a passive shield bonus or a EMC bonus would actualy turn it in a Anmar/Caldari ship, the only link it has now is the lore.


The Sansha ships take their heavy shield from the Caldari line, so a ship bonus giving it perhaps a signature reduction, or improvement in shield resistance would make some sense. I agree though, the AB is more minmatar, and is probably better suited to the Blood Raider ships.

I'd much prefer Sansha to stick to their fundamental aspects which are having a heavy shield and delivering heavy damage. An afterburner really makes little sense. If you really want to give it something stand out then take the ECM aspect from caldari ships and perhaps give a bonus to ECM drones.

The nightmare would really live up to it's name if it could field a set of 5 bonused heavy ecm drones.
Silivar Karkun
Doomheim
#746 - 2014-02-26 15:37:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Silivar Karkun
Medalyn Isis wrote:
Mike Whiite wrote:
Although I like most of the changes.

Couldn't we use the reballance to give the Shansa line somthing Caldari?

at the moment it's one of the least recognisable lines in Pirates ships.

a passive shield bonus or a EMC bonus would actualy turn it in a Anmar/Caldari ship, the only link it has now is the lore.


The Sansha ships take their heavy shield from the Caldari line, so a ship bonus giving it perhaps a signature reduction, or improvement in shield resistance would make some sense. I agree though, the AB is more minmatar, and is probably better suited to the Blood Raider ships.

I'd much prefer Sansha to stick to their fundamental aspects which are having a heavy shield and delivering heavy damage. An afterburner really makes little sense. If you really want to give it something stand out then take the ECM aspect from caldari ships and perhaps give a bonus to ECM drones.


tieing it to the worm proposal above:

SUCCUBUS

Amarr Frigate Bonus:
7.5% bonus to Small Energy Turret tracking speed and optimal range

Caldari Frigate Bonus:
4% bonus to all shield resistances per lvl

Role Bonus:
125% bonus to Small Energy Turret damage (was 100% energy turret damage)

basically the Succubus gets an aditional range bonus, while getting more resistances, as the guristas get a bonus to compensate this loss, the Sanshas get more bulk on their shields
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#747 - 2014-02-26 15:40:57 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Morwennon wrote:
Will they still have the slightly odd 350 calibration for rigs, or will that be bumped up to 400 as was done for the empire faction ships?


For now the plan is to leave them at the awkward 350. We did have a discussion about this and I don't feel really strongly either way. 400 is nicer for consistency and cleanliness but there also isn't a need for the power boost from the extra 50.

this is a silly argument. with this reasoning you could argue that warcraft 2 had better balance than warcraft 3 because both factions had the exact same units.

I should buy an Ishtar.
Medalyn Isis
Doomheim
#748 - 2014-02-26 15:42:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Medalyn Isis
Silivar Karkun wrote:
Medalyn Isis wrote:
The Sansha ships take their heavy shield from the Caldari line, so a ship bonus giving it perhaps a signature reduction, or improvement in shield resistance would make some sense. I agree though, the AB is more minmatar, and is probably better suited to the Blood Raider ships.

I'd much prefer Sansha to stick to their fundamental aspects which are having a heavy shield and delivering heavy damage. An afterburner really makes little sense. If you really want to give it something stand out then take the ECM aspect from caldari ships and perhaps give a bonus to ECM drones.


tieing it to the worm proposal above:

SUCCUBUS

Amarr Frigate Bonus:
7.5% bonus to Small Energy Turret tracking speed and optimal range

Caldari Frigate Bonus:
4% bonus to all shield resistances per lvl

Role Bonus:
125% bonus to Small Energy Turret damage (was 100% energy turret damage)

basically the Succubus gets an aditional range bonus, while getting more resistances, as the guristas get a bonus to compensate this loss, the Sanshas get more bulk on their shields


Yes this makes a lot of sense, I would rather go with the shield resistances than an afterburner bonus, and then Amarr delivers all the energy weapon bonuses which makes a lot more sense.

I still think it would be quite cool, and also quite 'sansha' for them to have bonused ecm drones though. But giving shield resistances is a good and safe option.
Silivar Karkun
Doomheim
#749 - 2014-02-26 15:47:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Silivar Karkun
Medalyn Isis wrote:
Silivar Karkun wrote:
Medalyn Isis wrote:
The Sansha ships take their heavy shield from the Caldari line, so a ship bonus giving it perhaps a signature reduction, or improvement in shield resistance would make some sense. I agree though, the AB is more minmatar, and is probably better suited to the Blood Raider ships.

I'd much prefer Sansha to stick to their fundamental aspects which are having a heavy shield and delivering heavy damage. An afterburner really makes little sense. If you really want to give it something stand out then take the ECM aspect from caldari ships and perhaps give a bonus to ECM drones.


tieing it to the worm proposal above:

SUCCUBUS

Amarr Frigate Bonus:
7.5% bonus to Small Energy Turret tracking speed and optimal range

Caldari Frigate Bonus:
4% bonus to all shield resistances per lvl

Role Bonus:
125% bonus to Small Energy Turret damage (was 100% energy turret damage)

basically the Succubus gets an aditional range bonus, while getting more resistances, as the guristas get a bonus to compensate this loss, the Sanshas get more bulk on their shields


Yes this makes a lot of sense, I would rather go with the shield resistances than an afterburner bonus, and then Amarr delivers all the energy weapon bonuses which makes a lot more sense.

I still think it would be quite cool, and also quite 'sansha' for them to have bonused ecm drones though. But giving shield resistances is a good and safe option.


pulse nightmare with conflagration, just saying :v
Thaddeus Eggeras
Urkrathos Corp
#750 - 2014-02-26 15:57:28 UTC
I'm sorry to say CCP Rise, but these all seem like well thought out ideas that are good for once. I'm as shocked as you, amazing. But a till we see changes to the cruisers and battleships who really knows. I do think pirate faction frigates still won't stand up against AF like they once did, but these chances will make them better ships as a whole.

About the true missile pirate faction ship. I have talked about this before. As the SoE ships are Amarr/Gal, I'd say a Cald/Min pirate faction ship is in store, and making it into a true missile platform shouldn't be an issue. The issue is what faction would it be, and the bonuses to the ship. A whole new ship design be sweet also.
Phoenix Jones
Small-Arms Fire
#751 - 2014-02-26 15:58:23 UTC
Could the new worm drone setup be applied to the ishkur also? I would love to have drones that could take a hit.

Yaay!!!!
Silivar Karkun
Doomheim
#752 - 2014-02-26 15:59:40 UTC
Thaddeus Eggeras wrote:
I'm sorry to say CCP Rise, but these all seem like well thought out ideas that are good for once. I'm as shocked as you, amazing. But a till we see changes to the cruisers and battleships who really knows. I do think pirate faction frigates still won't stand up against AF like they once did, but these chances will make them better ships as a whole.

About the true missile pirate faction ship. I have talked about this before. As the SoE ships are Amarr/Gal, I'd say a Cald/Min pirate faction ship is in store, and making it into a true missile platform shouldn't be an issue. The issue is what faction would it be, and the bonuses to the ship. A whole new ship design be sweet also.


it would have to be a new faction cause there are not factions with that alignment for now, that or they add aditional story to either Thukkers or Ammatar......
Abs Sciuto
Tail Spin Corp
Proxima Centauri Alliance
#753 - 2014-02-26 16:01:40 UTC
I think you should give some pirate frigate bonus to rof of lasers) for example:
cruor:
hi/med/low 3/3/4
2 turrets
amarr frigate bonus 20% to amount of capacitor of nosf/neutr
minmatar frigate 20% bonus to laser turrets rate of fire
role bonus - old nosf, 100% to neutr/nosf range, 125% to laser turrets damage

make him a bit less weight, to make faster...


what about worm... it should be more missile)


actually, I think about some rig, with which we can change role bonus to another on ships, like worm.
without it worm will be missile platform, which - drone) it will interesting.

anyway MAKE WORM/SUCCUBUS/CRUOR FASTER!!!)
Silivar Karkun
Doomheim
#754 - 2014-02-26 16:11:51 UTC
something like this?

CRUOR

Amarr Frigate Bonus:
20% bonus to Energy Vampire and Energy Neutralizer effectiveness and optimal range

Minmatar Frigate Bonus:
20% bonus to rate of fire

Role Bonus:
100% bonus to Small Energy Turret damage

note: Energy Vampires operate as though your capacitor is empty (this wording is work in progress)

max velocity increased from 308 to 340-350 even 360 (?)
Medalyn Isis
Doomheim
#755 - 2014-02-26 16:15:27 UTC
After considering this I think the bonuses are very wrong for blood raider and sansha ships. We would regret this for years to come as likely pirate ships won't be rebalanced for a long time after this one.

So, how about simply scrap the web bonus altogether on blood raider ships, the current range bonus being proposed is neither here nor there for me as many others have mentioned. Instead give them the Sansha afterburner bonus.

A heavily armoured low sig afterburner bonused ship equipped with bonused nuet or nos makes a lot of sense.

On the other hand, a heavy shielded and giant signatured Sansha ship has no need for an afterburner bonus. Instead give the Sansha ships a shield resistance bonus from the caldari ship skill, and an optimal bonus from the amarr ship skill.
GOTBOT
U.S. Robots and Mechanical Men
#756 - 2014-02-26 16:18:25 UTC
happened!

Worm desperately need drone bonuses.

And I don't care , it will be:

5 drones *50%

or

2*300%

Just do it!
Cade Windstalker
#757 - 2014-02-26 16:24:51 UTC
Medalyn Isis wrote:
After considering this I think the bonuses are very wrong for blood raider and sansha ships. We would regret this for years to come as likely pirate ships won't be rebalanced for a long time after this one.

So, how about simply scrap the web bonus altogether on blood raider ships, the current range bonus being proposed is neither here nor there for me as many others have mentioned. Instead give them the Sansha afterburner bonus.

A heavily armoured low sig afterburner bonused ship equipped with bonused nuet or nos makes a lot of sense.

On the other hand, a heavy shielded and giant signatured Sansha ship has no need for an afterburner bonus. Instead give the Sansha ships a shield resistance bonus from the caldari ship skill, and an optimal bonus from the amarr ship skill.


I don't think you understand how speed-tanking works. Low sig is a nice bonus for speed tanking but it's not required if the speed bonus is high enough. In-fact the high-ish signature on the Sansha ships from shield tanking helps mitigate the effects of the bonus and makes it less over-powered, especially on the smaller ships.

As for tanking if you fit your ship well and take into account the increase in your own traversal the AB bonus is a more powerful tanking increase than % shield resists would be. Plus that bonus is already over-used and extremely powerful as things stand.
Dii minores
AirGuard
LowSechnaya Sholupen
#758 - 2014-02-26 16:28:10 UTC
new CRUOR is not worthy of existence. Stop nerf Ashimmu!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!TwistedTwistedTwistedTwistedTwistedTwistedTwistedTwistedTwistedTwistedTwistedTwistedTwistedTwistedTwistedTwistedTwistedTwistedTwistedTwistedTwistedTwistedTwisted
Medalyn Isis
Doomheim
#759 - 2014-02-26 16:36:14 UTC
Cade Windstalker wrote:
Medalyn Isis wrote:
After considering this I think the bonuses are very wrong for blood raider and sansha ships. We would regret this for years to come as likely pirate ships won't be rebalanced for a long time after this one.

So, how about simply scrap the web bonus altogether on blood raider ships, the current range bonus being proposed is neither here nor there for me as many others have mentioned. Instead give them the Sansha afterburner bonus.

A heavily armoured low sig afterburner bonused ship equipped with bonused nuet or nos makes a lot of sense.

On the other hand, a heavy shielded and giant signatured Sansha ship has no need for an afterburner bonus. Instead give the Sansha ships a shield resistance bonus from the caldari ship skill, and an optimal bonus from the amarr ship skill.


I don't think you understand how speed-tanking works. Low sig is a nice bonus for speed tanking but it's not required if the speed bonus is high enough. In-fact the high-ish signature on the Sansha ships from shield tanking helps mitigate the effects of the bonus and makes it less over-powered, especially on the smaller ships.

As for tanking if you fit your ship well and take into account the increase in your own traversal the AB bonus is a more powerful tanking increase than % shield resists would be. Plus that bonus is already over-used and extremely powerful as things stand.

The fact is an afterburner bonus is out of place on a ship which is based around caldari and amarr principles. It is not that people don't understand how speed tanking works, the problem is the ship doesn't make a lot of sense. This will become even worse when we move onto the phantasm and nightmare, I am predicting the complaints will start then.
Itago Gemulus
Station Spinners United
#760 - 2014-02-26 16:41:50 UTC
Ill say it again, 90% are to strong, and 20% web range is to weak.

When comparing these, 90% web = 4-5x 60% webs. What other modules get these bonuses (even the new worm drone bonuses are not that strong)

20% web range make very little diffrence, make it 30% as recon ships get or stronger. Even at 50%/level i would likely take current web strenght if i could choose