These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

[Kronos] Pirate Faction Frigates

First post First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#621 - 2014-02-26 02:04:51 UTC
tbh i was hopping it would go this way for guritas and blood.

blood would scale with the new drone/neut docterine so no more lazor bonus but mixed drone/nuet bonus

guritas would gain a drone tracking/optimal range or tracking/speed bonus and loose the missile range bonus.

.................................................................
with old school nos and good drone damage the Ashimmu would be really neat for pvp and would scale nice up to the bs.

think for the worm instead of missile damage bonus or range we get tracking and speed for drones

for the gila it gets a tracking and speed bonus and the snake gets a tracking and optimal range bonus.

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#622 - 2014-02-26 02:20:34 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
tbh i was hopping it would go this way for guritas and blood.

blood would scale with the new drone/neut docterine so no more lazor bonus but mixed drone/nuet bonus

guritas would gain a drone tracking/optimal range or tracking/speed bonus and loose the missile range bonus.

.................................................................
with old school nos and good drone damage the Ashimmu would be really neat for pvp and would scale nice up to the bs.

think for the worm instead of missile damage bonus or range we get tracking and speed for drones

for the gila it gets a tracking and speed bonus and the snake gets a tracking and optimal range bonus.

Honestly I'd prefer the Guristas be in some way unique in comparison with the Gallente beyond being just shield tanked.
Dyscordia
Super Elite Friendship Club
#623 - 2014-02-26 02:23:19 UTC
"WORM

Gallente Frigate Bonus:
10% bonus to kinetic and thermal missile damage (was 5m3 Drone Bay Capacity per level)"

Does this include rockets and light missiles? it's ambiguous the way it is written.

Thanks.
Catherine Laartii
Doomheim
#624 - 2014-02-26 02:28:28 UTC
Darth Felin wrote:
Cruor need additional low instead of high badly. It is hard almost impossible to tank it, at least for armor. You can also move highslot to medium so we will have another shield tanker. Currently it is neither nor and to be honest you just don't need second nos with such bonus

Also worm is looking really boring, it is cool to have bonus for light drones on gila and medium on rattlesnake but it is just don't scale to the worm level, imho it is better to make something outstanding for it. For example give him 5 drones / leage dronebay and bonus to utility drones (web,ecm etc... maybe even remote repair ones too) instead of bonus to combat drones and it will be cool support for frigate fleets


The issue lies more in range; if you have range dictation and dps denial, you don't necessarily need a largish tank. What would be ideal would be getting rid of the web bonuses entirely and swapping them for neut range. I do very much like what they did with upgrading how the nos works on these; that'll be very interesting to follow.
Aralieus
Shadowbane Syndicate
#625 - 2014-02-26 02:35:59 UTC
Ronny Hugo wrote:
One observation about the Vindicator, I have yet to make an Amarr fit that beats it on Singularity. Lets be honest its bonus to hybrid turrets is actually only a bonus to blasters, because that's what the web bonus is most useful for.
So either its just me (totally possible, I haven't tried a billion fits against the vindi, more like 5), or that web+damage bonus double-jab always turns into a knockout. Because it can hold the target down, get into optimal on its shotguns and then unleash hell, all while the tied down ships can't do anything against it (a bhaal with 4 turrets and 3 neuts can't take the vindi, because the vindi can get of several salvos for every cap charge and the webs take almost no cap to cycle so timing is easy).
So I would like the damage bonus to be scaled back just a tiny bit. So that other pirate ships when going head to head against the vindi, can actually have a small chance of getting through the armor in time.
Btw, why on earth does the vindi have two launcher slots? And why on earth does the bhaal has turret slots at all when its purpose is neuting? All the other pirate battleships does DPS WAAY better than the bhaal, so might as well remove the dps from the bhaal. No one ever fields a bhaal with anything else than neuts. If you want it to have DPS at all give the bhaal a 700% damage bonus and have 1 turret slot, then a bhaal with dps would be fielded.

Please add some NEW ships also, I'm dying for an abaddon-hull pirate ship that is focused on raw beam weapon melting power (as opposed to the vindi blaster melting power). I suggest range penalty with extreme tracking bonus, and damage multiplier bonus, and 4 turrets with 100% damage bonus instead of a cap usage bonus. Give it 4 high slots, 5 mids and 8 lows, with 800 cargo space (for cap charges, all the cap charges in the universe!).


I have a 1500+ dps Navy Armageddon that will crush any Vindi 1 on 1.

Oderint Dum Metuant
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#626 - 2014-02-26 02:37:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Hasikan Miallok
The two light drone thing is ingenious on the Worm, looks like transforming it to an amazingly useful little ship.

It works with the lights becasue they will usually be close to the Worm allowing re-docking when suffering damage and potentially even RR whilst staying in the fight. Only downside is you will be able to deploy far less ewar/repair/salvage drones so your tacical choices are more limited.

10/10 on the Worm.



On the other hand applying the same trick to the Rattlesnake with heavy drones will not work, you would need to either remake the Rattler as a super close range brawler or give the heavies a massive speed buff for them to even have a slight hope of staying alive fighting at the ranges a Rattle will typically fire from.
Kapytul Gaynez
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#627 - 2014-02-26 02:49:18 UTC
Hasikan Miallok wrote:
On the other hand applying the same trick to the Rattlesnake with heavy drones will not work, you would need to either remake the Rattler as a super close range brawler or give the heavies a massive speed buff for them to even have a slight hope of staying alive fighting at the ranges a Rattle will typically fire from.



The MWD Torp/Ogre II Rattler is already decent, with a similar rebalance they would be pretty good I think.
Aglais
Ice-Storm
#628 - 2014-02-26 02:53:05 UTC
Dyscordia wrote:
"WORM

Gallente Frigate Bonus:
10% bonus to kinetic and thermal missile damage (was 5m3 Drone Bay Capacity per level)"

Does this include rockets and light missiles? it's ambiguous the way it is written.

Thanks.


It's all frigate missile systems generally, if it'sjust "missile damage".

I'm glad they threw in Thermal damage too at least instead of just Kinetic, even though I don't like bonuses like this that much. I'll take this one, this once.
Aralieus
Shadowbane Syndicate
#629 - 2014-02-26 03:11:08 UTC
Seamus Donohue wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:
note: Energy Vampires operate as though your capacitor is empty

"Role Bonus: Energy Vampires always operate regardless of how much capacitor you and your target have."


If your opponent has no capacitor left the nos will not generate it out of thin air. I think someone mentioned a pretty accurate description already somewhere in the thread. I'm imagining a nos Ashimmu and it will be downright sexy!

Oderint Dum Metuant
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#630 - 2014-02-26 03:11:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Michael Harari
Grath Telkin wrote:
Yazzinra wrote:


AFs were deemed overpowered with half the current succubus afterburner bonus. This could really use an answer.



They also have a much higher resist profile and higher damage output as well, whereas this particular ship has none of that. Those two things combined to make it just too much on the AF hull.


They also only had a 50% bonus, instead of 100% bonus.
Raine Marelwe
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#631 - 2014-02-26 03:27:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Raine Marelwe
Personally, I'll be very disappointed if the best they can do to give Guristas a 'unique' feel is "Kinda' droneboat+3".

Please, please don't sacrifice these hulls on the altar of 'lol, lets see if the playerbase will swallow this ham-fisted solution to drone-induced server strain during large player battles'. You already butchered the Rattlesnake with the sentry nerfs. It will be YEARS before you come back to undo the damage if/when these changes prove to be underwhelming and/or boring.

In the interest of not shooting down an idea without at least offering an alternative, I think it would be VERY interesting if there were some hulls dedicated to making the full EWAR drone lineup really dangerous. Of course, such ships would obviously want to launch more drones, not fewer. To that end, I can't see a compelling reason not to give Guristas ships the ability to launch some extra drones, like the G-Vexor: These hulls are not spent in sovwar blobs - it's not economical - so server load shouldn't really be an issue.

Right now, these ships feel schizophrenic, trying to juggle tank, missile, and drone bonuses. Drop the missile focus (which also encourages more creative use of the highs. Wouldn't Gallente-Caldari combo hulls favor hybrids, anyway?) and replace it with a drone velocity bonus, or a bonus to max drones launched, or a significant bonus to EWAR drone effectiveness. Then consider dropping the drone damage bonus for another one of those same options.

Let the Gallente drone boats be the fragile DPS platforms - use this rebalance as an opportunity to introduce a truly unique ship type: The indomitable EWAR drone mini-carrier.



P.S. - While you're at it, feel free to experiment with warp-disruption drones.
light heaven
JUST SET TIMES
#632 - 2014-02-26 03:40:33 UTC
angel ship is OP, so still a little buff to dramiel. Rise you want to make the best ship to be much more popular?
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#633 - 2014-02-26 03:41:46 UTC
Raine Marelwe wrote:
. Drop the missile focus (which encourages more creative use of the highs. Wouldn't Gallente-Caldari combo hulls favor hybrids, anyway?)


You dont have to use the missile bonus
Methonash Qorranto
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#634 - 2014-02-26 03:44:06 UTC
Raine Marelwe wrote:

P.S. - While you're at it, feel free to experiment with warp-disruption drones.


Woah there, cowboy.
Raine Marelwe
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#635 - 2014-02-26 03:47:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Raine Marelwe
Michael Harari wrote:
Raine Marelwe wrote:
. Drop the missile focus (which encourages more creative use of the highs. Wouldn't Gallente-Caldari combo hulls favor hybrids, anyway?)


You dont have to use the missile bonus




Roll You must have 'missing the point' trained to V.

Methonash Qorranto wrote:

Woah there, cowboy.


What, does this concept make you more uncomfortable than interdiction spheres or infinipoints? Why shouldn't we have them? They'd suffer from travel time (especially if they only existed in heavy-size), they'd be individually destructible, and you'd have to sacrifice launched drone 'slots' & bandwidth to use them. Plenty of potential balancing factors, imo.
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#636 - 2014-02-26 04:05:14 UTC
Raine Marelwe wrote:
Michael Harari wrote:
Raine Marelwe wrote:
. Drop the missile focus (which encourages more creative use of the highs. Wouldn't Gallente-Caldari combo hulls favor hybrids, anyway?)


You dont have to use the missile bonus




Roll You must have 'missing the point' trained to V.


How does "enabling more options" translate to "less creative fittings"
Jeanne-Luise Argenau
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#637 - 2014-02-26 04:15:04 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
CRUOR

Amarr Frigate Bonus:
15% bonus to Energy Vampire and Energy Neutralizer effectiveness

Minmatar Frigate Bonus:
20% bonus to Stasis Webifier range (was 10% bonus to Stasis Webifier effectiveness)

Role Bonus:
100% bonus to Small Energy Turret damage
note: Energy Vampires operate as though your capacitor is empty (this wording is work in progress)


Slot layout: 4H, 3M, 3L; 2 turrets, 0 launchers
Fittings: 50 PWG(-7), 140 CPU(+3)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 480(-103) / 740(+83) / 580(-2)
Capacitor (amount / recharge / cap per second) : 470 / 205000 (-29375) / 2.24 (+.23)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 330(+22) / 3.6 / 1003000 / 5.01s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 10(+10) / 10(+10)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 33km(+8km) / 760 / 6
Sensor strength: 12
Signature radius: 35



im not sure how it will effect fleet fights but when i look at it 1vs1 i would say the web range is way overpowered on the first look.24k heated meta 4 web long point 24km?
Buckethead bot
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#638 - 2014-02-26 04:19:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Buckethead bot
Jeanne-Luise Argenau wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:
CRUOR

Amarr Frigate Bonus:
15% bonus to Energy Vampire and Energy Neutralizer effectiveness

Minmatar Frigate Bonus:
20% bonus to Stasis Webifier range (was 10% bonus to Stasis Webifier effectiveness)

Role Bonus:
100% bonus to Small Energy Turret damage
note: Energy Vampires operate as though your capacitor is empty (this wording is work in progress)


Slot layout: 4H, 3M, 3L; 2 turrets, 0 launchers
Fittings: 50 PWG(-7), 140 CPU(+3)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 480(-103) / 740(+83) / 580(-2)
Capacitor (amount / recharge / cap per second) : 470 / 205000 (-29375) / 2.24 (+.23)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 330(+22) / 3.6 / 1003000 / 5.01s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 10(+10) / 10(+10)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 33km(+8km) / 760 / 6
Sensor strength: 12
Signature radius: 35



im not sure how it will effect fleet fights but when i look at it 1vs1 i would say the web range is way overpowered on the first look.24k heated meta 4 web long point 24km?


And ? you dont have really any dps or tank with this hull to own anything more than some laser users, by shutting down their cap. This thing really needs a low slot not a bonused range web, or it will be a hyiena with neuts - still crappy
Raine Marelwe
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#639 - 2014-02-26 04:19:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Raine Marelwe
Michael Harari wrote:
Raine Marelwe wrote:
Michael Harari wrote:
Raine Marelwe wrote:
. Drop the missile focus (which encourages more creative use of the highs. Wouldn't Gallente-Caldari combo hulls favor hybrids, anyway?)


You dont have to use the missile bonus




Roll You must have 'missing the point' trained to V.


How does "enabling more options" translate to "less creative fittings"


Again, you had to go to some length to crop my post enough to be able to miss the point this thoroughly (and I have since edited the original to avoid similar derping), nonetheless, I'll bite:

It is a function of opportunity cost. You seem to be the type to noisily proclaim that "Minerals I mine are FREEEEE!!", while blissfully ignorant of the fact that almost every decision anyone makes represents the sacrifice of an alternative. In this particular case, no new option has been 'enabled', as you put it; merely an old one has been 'subsidized'. This means that every other option is comparatively less attractive, as you now must sacrifice more (in the form of potential bonus missile damage) to take advantage of other available options.
Kel hound
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#640 - 2014-02-26 04:30:14 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
A couple more clarifications:

  • I said 'old nos' in the OP but that can be a bit confusing considering there has been a few different versions. The description provided by bobfrommarketing (I think thats who it was) is very accurate - "Energy Vampires fitted to this ship will drain targeted ship's capacitor regardless of your own capacitor level". So, it will NOT continue to generate cap when your target is empty, it just doesn't have the same limitation has normal nos where you must have less cap than your target.

  • It's been mentioned that the missile damage bonus on the Worm doesn't make sense as a Gallente bonus and should be on the role bonus. I agree that it would be ideal to have it that way in terms of flavor but giving a 60% per level bonus would mean that the ship was basically unusable until you had Gallente Frigate 5 and we really don't like that. And I've also seen at least one person say they thought we were done with damage type specific bonuses, and we are not. It's a nice tool to use in certain places.

  • In the post I quoted above I just meant to highlight that we are not limited to 300% for the other Guristas ships, but again, let's talk about those when we get to them.


    • This clarification is great, thank you Rise. Gurista is one of my favorite pirate factions and while I loved the changes for the worm (No, seriously, does this mean that the worms hob's will have almost as much EHP as the ship they're slaved too?) I was concerned about the fate of the Gila and Rattler. Now not so much.


    As awesome as having old NOS is the wording for it could definitely be clearer.

    CCP Ytterbium wrote:
    Hey guys,

    We really need some more rants and complains to be going on in this thread please. All the confusion caused by the positive comments is getting to CCP Rise's head - he's becoming irrational and randomly attacking various people in the office. We'd use the straight-jacket to tie him up for a while, but it's currently being occupied by CCP Fozzie as he's having his daily drooling fit.

    Thank you for your cooperation citizens.



    Ummm.... Rise, your face is ugly and your changes to Angel ships are bland and unoriginal? Im sorry, Im not very good at this sort of thing!
    (Your face is fine btw, Im sorry! I didnt mean it!)