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[Kronos] Pirate Faction Frigates

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Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
#581 - 2014-02-26 00:49:21 UTC
Kapytul Gaynez wrote:
Seems like the people arguing for the "5 drone vanilla Worm" don't really explain why besides just repeating "That's how it is supposed to be!" ad naseum. Any chance one of them comes up with an actual reason besides "Cuz..."?


"Cuz..." it fun to use 5 drones with 5 spares?

Why not change the new Worm to only use one drone with 600% bonus?

The Tears Must Flow
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
#582 - 2014-02-26 00:51:06 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Vaju Enki wrote:
Grath Telkin wrote:
Vaju Enki wrote:
Bertrand Butler wrote:
Just finished calculating the EHP for a RF warrior with a T2 durability rig.

Raw
962.5
1437.5
900

Shield Omni perDT
240.62
300.77
401.03
601.55

Armor Omni perDT
898.43
653.40
479.16
399.30

Structure
900

Total
240.62
300.77
401.03
601.55
898.43
653.40
479.16
399.30
900
_____
4,874 EHP for one drone doing 82.5DPS with a 25m sig and a speed of 750/5250. Not bad.



Not bad != Being fun.

Keep the Worm as 5/10 drone shield tank frigate!


I personally can't wait to fly it, I think its going to be amazingly fun.


I bet a 5(bandwith)/10(bay) drone ship with 600% bonus would be even better right?...

Not terribly different while having less spares(2 vs 2.5 flights) and lower damage? Why?


Already aswer this, it's fun to fly a 5 drones frigate with 5 spares, it's what makes the current Worm great.

The Tears Must Flow
Bertrand Butler
Cras es Noster
#583 - 2014-02-26 00:51:43 UTC
why?
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
#584 - 2014-02-26 00:52:33 UTC
Vaju Enki wrote:
Grath Telkin wrote:
Vaju Enki wrote:
Bertrand Butler wrote:
Just finished calculating the EHP for a RF warrior with a T2 durability rig.

Raw
962.5
1437.5
900

Shield Omni perDT
240.62
300.77
401.03
601.55

Armor Omni perDT
898.43
653.40
479.16
399.30

Structure
900

Total
240.62
300.77
401.03
601.55
898.43
653.40
479.16
399.30
900
_____
4,874 EHP for one drone doing 82.5DPS with a 25m sig and a speed of 750/5250. Not bad.



Not bad != Being fun.

Keep the Worm as 5/10 drone shield tank frigate!


I personally can't wait to fly it, I think its going to be amazingly fun.


I bet a 5(bandwith)/10(bay) drone ship with 600% bonus would be even better right?...


If it was a 700% bonus... I would chew Rise's left arm off trying to get him to give me one of those drones with space to plug my pod in. It would be a frigate with almost a battleships tank.
Silivar Karkun
Doomheim
#585 - 2014-02-26 00:52:43 UTC
Kapytul Gaynez wrote:
Seems like the people arguing for the "5 drone vanilla Worm" don't really explain why besides just repeating "That's how it is supposed to be!" ad naseum. Any chance one of them comes up with an actual reason besides "Cuz..."?


try to gank a frigate with to 2 "drones" that are basically closer to be frigates (if not destroyers) themselves.....try to look at that from the point of a bigger hull, how are you gonna stop that, with webs?, they would tank any damage done by your drones or smartbombs or other weapons.....while is easier to get rid of a flight of 5 drones in fact, its hard already (got ganked by an ishtar once, it was traumatizing) now imagine a ship with 2 drones with the tank and DPS of 4 each one, but with the rest of the statistics equal to any other light drone, they're practically immortal.....
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
#586 - 2014-02-26 00:53:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaju Enki
Aglais wrote:
Vaju Enki wrote:


Not bad != Being fun.

Keep the Worm as 5/10 drone shield tank frigate!


I strongly urge you to stop suggesting to change it back. I did actual numbermancy on some things- the Worm looks like it'll completely melt face within rocket range. I'm talking 214 DPS with my skills, no doubt more if you have the right implants. Slightly more tank than before, not to mention it's also getting faster, while staying the same (fairly light) mass. These drones are putting out ~111 DPS, will have 4800-5000something EHP and a signature radius of 25m in orbit. This could be a ship that revitalizes drone useage, SOMEWHERE, in New Eden. And it looks like my desire for a missile using shield brawler has come true.


Being overpowered != of being fun. The current Worm with 25/50 drone configuration is a fun ship to fly.

The Tears Must Flow
Kapytul Gaynez
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#587 - 2014-02-26 00:53:22 UTC
Vaju Enki wrote:
Kapytul Gaynez wrote:
Seems like the people arguing for the "5 drone vanilla Worm" don't really explain why besides just repeating "That's how it is supposed to be!" ad naseum. Any chance one of them comes up with an actual reason besides "Cuz..."?


"Cuz..." it fun to use 5 drones with 5 spares?

Why not change the new Worm to only use one drone with 600% bonus?




Not sure how having 5 drones is any more fun that having 2 and your 1 drone version has 7 effective drones instead of the proposed 8 effective drones. The proposed Worm is better than the old one in every way.
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#588 - 2014-02-26 00:53:26 UTC
Kapytul Gaynez wrote:
Seems like the people arguing for the "5 drone vanilla Worm" don't really explain why besides just repeating "That's how it is supposed to be!" ad naseum. Any chance one of them comes up with an actual reason besides "Cuz..."?


because if my dps is in 2 drones, what happens if someone webs one and stops it getting within 8km? also, what of tracking disruptors vs drones?

and if this is the way it needs to be to make combat drone ships good, why is this a guristas-only thing?
Ganthrithor
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#589 - 2014-02-26 00:53:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Ganthrithor
Methonash Qorranto wrote:
Ganthrithor wrote:

Am I just completely math-tarded (totally a possibility) or is a 300% (or 3x) multiplier to drone damage applied to two drones the equivalent of six un-bonused drones, not 8?

IDK if I'm just doing it wrong, but I get 6x unbonused drones' worth of DPS from the Worm's two drones vs 6.25x un-bonused drones' worth of damage from a 5-drone ship with a 5%/level (25%) damage bonus. How are you getting your 8 drones' worth of damage?


You're not math-tarded, Sir - you're just forgetting one important little detail: that base damage is already at 100%, and you have to factor that in when counting the bonus.

Thus, a 300% bonus on top of 100% equals 400%, or in other words, an effective multiplier of 4x.

So, 4 * 2 --> 8.

With 5 drones at 25% bonus (on top of 100% base), you get 5 * 1.25 = 6.25, which is what you *did* calculate correctly.

In other words, it's 300% of 100%, or 3, on top of the 1 base --> so 4 total, and 4 by 2 --> 8.


:shobon:

Thanks, duder! That was dumb :3

Yeah, this ship will be retardedly good.
Aglais
Ice-Storm
#590 - 2014-02-26 00:56:11 UTC
Vaju Enki wrote:
Kapytul Gaynez wrote:
Seems like the people arguing for the "5 drone vanilla Worm" don't really explain why besides just repeating "That's how it is supposed to be!" ad naseum. Any chance one of them comes up with an actual reason besides "Cuz..."?


"Cuz..." it fun to use 5 drones with 5 spares?

Why not change the new Worm to only use one drone with 600% bonus?


You may not even NEED spare drones, don't you see? These drones are going to have more EHP than heavies, while having significantly smaller sigs and travelling FAR faster. You'll still have a 'spare set' of drones given that the bay of the Worm will still be 25.
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
#591 - 2014-02-26 00:56:29 UTC
Kapytul Gaynez wrote:
Vaju Enki wrote:
Kapytul Gaynez wrote:
Seems like the people arguing for the "5 drone vanilla Worm" don't really explain why besides just repeating "That's how it is supposed to be!" ad naseum. Any chance one of them comes up with an actual reason besides "Cuz..."?


"Cuz..." it fun to use 5 drones with 5 spares?

Why not change the new Worm to only use one drone with 600% bonus?




Not sure how having 5 drones is any more fun that having 2 and your 1 drone version has 7 effective drones instead of the proposed 8 effective drones. The proposed Worm is better than the old one in every way.


Again, being better is different from being fun. The current Worm sucks for most people, but it's my favorite ship of the game because it's a 25/50 drone shield tank frigate.

The Tears Must Flow
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#592 - 2014-02-26 00:56:37 UTC
Vaju Enki wrote:


I bet a 5(bandwith)/10(bay) drone ship with 600% bonus would be even better right?...


yes.

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Kapytul Gaynez
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#593 - 2014-02-26 00:57:10 UTC
TrouserDeagle wrote:
Kapytul Gaynez wrote:
Seems like the people arguing for the "5 drone vanilla Worm" don't really explain why besides just repeating "That's how it is supposed to be!" ad naseum. Any chance one of them comes up with an actual reason besides "Cuz..."?


because if my dps is in 2 drones, what happens if someone webs one and stops it getting within 8km? also, what of tracking disruptors vs drones?

and if this is the way it needs to be to make combat drone ships good, why is this a guristas-only thing?




So ewar being a workable counter to drones is bad? Seems to me(I may be wrong) that having your opponent use his ewar on your drones instead of you is a good thing. TDing ships will effect part of your DPS but your missiles will still hit them and the other drone will too.
Bad Messenger
Rehabilitation Clinic
#594 - 2014-02-26 00:57:35 UTC
2 drones = bad idea, one griffin can solo worm, just jamm worm and both drones, nothing can go wrong.
Kapytul Gaynez
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#595 - 2014-02-26 00:59:01 UTC
Vaju Enki wrote:
Kapytul Gaynez wrote:
Vaju Enki wrote:
Kapytul Gaynez wrote:
Seems like the people arguing for the "5 drone vanilla Worm" don't really explain why besides just repeating "That's how it is supposed to be!" ad naseum. Any chance one of them comes up with an actual reason besides "Cuz..."?


"Cuz..." it fun to use 5 drones with 5 spares?

Why not change the new Worm to only use one drone with 600% bonus?




Not sure how having 5 drones is any more fun that having 2 and your 1 drone version has 7 effective drones instead of the proposed 8 effective drones. The proposed Worm is better than the old one in every way.


Again, being better is different from being fun. The current Worm sucks for most people, but it's my favorite ship of the game because it's a 25/50 drone shield tank frigate.



You keep saying that the 25/50 Shield tank frigate is what makes it fun, How does it being a 10/25 Drone Shield tank frigate that does more DPS and has more survivable Drones ruin that?
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
#596 - 2014-02-26 00:59:19 UTC
Aglais wrote:
Vaju Enki wrote:
Kapytul Gaynez wrote:
Seems like the people arguing for the "5 drone vanilla Worm" don't really explain why besides just repeating "That's how it is supposed to be!" ad naseum. Any chance one of them comes up with an actual reason besides "Cuz..."?


"Cuz..." it fun to use 5 drones with 5 spares?

Why not change the new Worm to only use one drone with 600% bonus?


You may not even NEED spare drones, don't you see? These drones are going to have more EHP than heavies, while having significantly smaller sigs and travelling FAR faster. You'll still have a 'spare set' of drones given that the bay of the Worm will still be 25.


I've already answered this, being better is different from being fun, and for me the fun of the Worm is the fact you can use 5 drones with 5 spare on a shield tanked frigate.

The Tears Must Flow
Silivar Karkun
Doomheim
#597 - 2014-02-26 00:59:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Silivar Karkun
not gonna keep arguing about the bonuses, but think of it from the victim standpoint, wouldnt those dronesbe too hard (if not impossible) to destroy?, basically you're fighting 1v3, no imagine a small group of 3 worms, those are 16 drones worth of DPS right there.....so its like getting ganked by 9 ships... (3 ships each worm)
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#598 - 2014-02-26 01:00:45 UTC
Kapytul Gaynez wrote:
TrouserDeagle wrote:
Kapytul Gaynez wrote:
Seems like the people arguing for the "5 drone vanilla Worm" don't really explain why besides just repeating "That's how it is supposed to be!" ad naseum. Any chance one of them comes up with an actual reason besides "Cuz..."?


because if my dps is in 2 drones, what happens if someone webs one and stops it getting within 8km? also, what of tracking disruptors vs drones?

and if this is the way it needs to be to make combat drone ships good, why is this a guristas-only thing?




So ewar being a workable counter to drones is bad? Seems to me(I may be wrong) that having your opponent use his ewar on your drones instead of you is a good thing. TDing ships will effect part of your DPS but your missiles will still hit them and the other drone will too.


of course it's bad. drones are supposed to be pretty much ewar-proof. that, and iffy damage at whatever range you like, is supposed to be the reason you use drones. TDs are ridiculously powerful already.
Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#599 - 2014-02-26 01:03:01 UTC
I can't believe there are people defending the current Worm.

If you want a 25/50 drone frigate, fly an Ishkur tbh.
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
#600 - 2014-02-26 01:03:32 UTC
Kapytul Gaynez wrote:
Vaju Enki wrote:
Kapytul Gaynez wrote:
Vaju Enki wrote:
Kapytul Gaynez wrote:
Seems like the people arguing for the "5 drone vanilla Worm" don't really explain why besides just repeating "That's how it is supposed to be!" ad naseum. Any chance one of them comes up with an actual reason besides "Cuz..."?


"Cuz..." it fun to use 5 drones with 5 spares?

Why not change the new Worm to only use one drone with 600% bonus?




Not sure how having 5 drones is any more fun that having 2 and your 1 drone version has 7 effective drones instead of the proposed 8 effective drones. The proposed Worm is better than the old one in every way.


Again, being better is different from being fun. The current Worm sucks for most people, but it's my favorite ship of the game because it's a 25/50 drone shield tank frigate.



You keep saying that the 25/50 Shield tank frigate is what makes it fun, How does it being a 10/25 Drone Shield tank frigate that does more DPS and has more survivable Drones ruin that?


I like using 5 drones on a frigate, i like micromanaging 5 drones plus 5 spares during fights, only having 2 active drones ruin the fun of this ship for me (the current Worm is my favorite ship of the game).

The Tears Must Flow