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[Kronos] Pirate Faction Frigates

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Silivar Karkun
Doomheim
#461 - 2014-02-25 21:58:10 UTC
Victoria Thorne wrote:
Silivar Karkun wrote:
here:

WORM

Gallente Frigate Bonus:
10% to drone tracking and microwarpdrive speed

Caldari Frigate Bonus:
4% to al shield resistances

Role Bonus:
100% to drone damage and hitpoints, rocket and light missile damage

bandwitdth and bay are 25/50



So... a 400 DPS tanky frigate. Not balanced.


i can nerf the role bonus then to 50%
Marcel Devereux
Aideron Robotics
Aideron Robotics.
#462 - 2014-02-25 21:58:11 UTC
woodall wrote:
Silivar Karkun wrote:
its very simple:

your drones will have 50% better tracking and 50% extra speed

you will have 10 drones basically

you punch an extra with the power of 4 launchers and not limited to two damage types only

if the dronebay is increased to be 25/50 you have an extra flight of lights in case you loose the others....

the tradeoff here is that drones will get less HP i can change that too with the role bonus


You are literally insane. You seem to think that its balanced having a frig do just short of 300 dps with no damage mods whatsoever (an enyo can only achieve that with void fitted and a magstab). not only do you have that much dps, but you want a huge bonus to the damage application of 2/3's of it on top. How on earth can you think that is balanced.


To top it off he wants it to have a tank bonus. Either it has a double damage bonus or it has a damage bonus and a tank bonus. Having a double damage bonus and a tank bonus will be OP.
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#463 - 2014-02-25 21:59:08 UTC
Silivar Karkun wrote:
Victoria Thorne wrote:
Silivar Karkun wrote:
here:

WORM

Gallente Frigate Bonus:
10% to drone tracking and microwarpdrive speed

Caldari Frigate Bonus:
4% to al shield resistances

Role Bonus:
100% to drone damage and hitpoints, rocket and light missile damage

bandwitdth and bay are 25/50



So... a 400 DPS tanky frigate. Not balanced.


i can nerf the role bonus then to 50%


You are just randomly spitting out numbers. Just stop.
Silivar Karkun
Doomheim
#464 - 2014-02-25 22:00:10 UTC
here:

WORM

Gallente Frigate Bonus:
10% to drone tracking and microwarpdrive speed

Caldari Frigate Bonus:
4% to al shield resistances

Role Bonus:
50% to drone damage and hitpoints, rocket and light missile damage

bandwitdth and bay are 25/50

enough?
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#465 - 2014-02-25 22:01:11 UTC
try using 8km/s warriors vs a linked snaked kiting frigate. your drones are capable of going far faster than the target, but you'll have difficulty breaking the recharge on their mse. this is a problem with drones, and CCP are unwilling to fix it because nobody cares about it except me.
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#466 - 2014-02-25 22:05:39 UTC
TrouserDeagle wrote:
try using 8km/s warriors vs a linked snaked kiting frigate. your drones are capable of going far faster than the target, but you'll have difficulty breaking the recharge on their mse. this is a problem with drones, and CCP are unwilling to fix it because nobody cares about it except me.


Exactly what I'm talking about.

Speed doesn't help when the drone itself is mentally handicapped.

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Lusian
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#467 - 2014-02-25 22:06:15 UTC
For crying out loud CCP. Why don't you make new ship designs and keep the old ones. The new ship designed will have
all the bonus's the older ships should need.

It would be a lot easier for you guys to throw new ship designs in instead of messing around with the old stuff. In the military new hardware and tech are made all the time. Why can't we do the same in eve?

It is not going to hurt the game to say ok we have ships that are not what they used to be but some layers still like to use them.
The new ship designs with the better stats the older ships should have is not a bad thing. It is ok to keep the old stuff in while the new stuff does it's thing.

In reality we make better and newer vehicles, better planes. Things are constantly being replaced by new stuff because it is better. It is ok to put new ships in instead of trying to re balance something that is not going to keep up. Try it some time.

Make a patch that adds new ships with the specks that the older pout dated ships should have been. Or better even.
The


Try it.
Anaphylacti
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#468 - 2014-02-25 22:10:14 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:


  • We need a missile based pirate faction - yes! We didn't want to use an existing faction for this for a few different reasons (Imagine the rage if Angel turned into missiles or Guristas just became Caldari), but we would like to address it as soon as possible. I don't know when that will be, but it won't be never.



    • Minmattar/Caldari cruiser and battleship with a bonus to missile reload speed or missile bay ammo capacity
    Dark'Rai
    DEMONS OF THE HIDDEN MIST
    TRUTH. HONOUR. LIGHT.
    #469 - 2014-02-25 22:12:55 UTC
    Harvey James wrote:
    because that's what ISIS says .... shield tanked and masters of projectiles


    ISIS also says that to be mastered in a Vangel you require max Medium Energy Turrets. Yea ISIS great job m8. But we all know that the Vangel is a turret ship right?
    woodall
    Nemesis-Theory
    #470 - 2014-02-25 22:15:42 UTC
    Silivar Karkun wrote:
    here:

    WORM

    Gallente Frigate Bonus:
    10% to drone tracking and microwarpdrive speed

    Caldari Frigate Bonus:
    4% to al shield resistances

    Role Bonus:
    50% to drone damage and hitpoints, rocket and light missile damage

    bandwitdth and bay are 25/50

    enough?


    Please, Im trying to not be too nasty here but just stop please. I dont think you are actually doing the numbers behind your claims so ill take the liberty of doing them for you. A set of hobs with a 50% damage bonus will do 150 dps which by itself is pretty respectable for a frig. then to add onto that you wish to increase the dps by a further 50-60 or so from missile dps. so now you are equalling the dps of a daredevil/enyo. Then in even more addition to that, you want to have a tank bonus AND a large damage application bonus. You cant get everything at once mate, you have to make a compromise.

    I think the changes proposed by rise are interesting, I wont make a definitive stance as of yet. But even as it has been stated I think it might be doing a bit too much dps.
    Leafar Nightfall
    Silent Owls
    #471 - 2014-02-25 22:15:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Leafar Nightfall
    I've taken a look at the Gila and one thing I noticed is that it is one of the few cruisers that can field large drones/sentry turrets, which is kind of "oversized" drones for its hull

    That being said, none of the frigates can do that (field of mediums), so maybe the Gallente Frigate bonus could be a 5Mbits/s per level. That way you'd be able to field 5 Hammerheads at Gallente Frigate V, which is EXACLTY the same dps of "effective" 8 hobgoblins (158dps without mods). Of course, there are the differences in tracking and so on, but I think that would be fun. That would also give webs a good synergy since that would help both the missiles and the drones to apply DPS.

    WORM

    Gallente Frigate Bonus:
    5Mbit/s Drone Bandwidth (was 5m3 Drone Bay Capacity per level)

    Caldari Frigate Bonus:
    4% bonus to all shield resistances

    Role Bonus:
    50% bonus to Rocket and Light Missile velocity

    Edit: 5 medium drones would also not screw up the drone assist mechanics as some people have mentioned
    Silivar Karkun
    Doomheim
    #472 - 2014-02-25 22:16:41 UTC
    very well then, but someone propose a better set of bonuses instead of that garbage.......300% damage and hitpoints its not worth the change if the ship will be limited to two damage types in missiles and with a nerfed bandwidth
    Silivar Karkun
    Doomheim
    #473 - 2014-02-25 22:18:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Silivar Karkun
    Leafar Nightfall wrote:
    I've taken a look at the Gila and one thing I noticed is that it is one of the few cruisers that can field large drones/sentry turrets, which is kind of "oversized" drones for its hull

    That being said, none of the frigates can do that (field of mediums), so maybe the Gallente Frigate bonus could be a 5Mbits/s per level. That way you'd be able to field 5 Hammerheads at Gallente Frigate V, which is EXACLTY the same dps of "effective" 8 hobgoblins (158dps without mods). Of course, there are the differences in tracking and so on, but I think that would be fun. That would also give webs a good synergy since that would help both the missiles and the drones to apply DPS.

    WORM

    Gallente Frigate Bonus:
    5Mbit/s Drone Bandwidth (was 5m3 Drone Bay Capacity per level)

    Caldari Frigate Bonus:
    4% bonus to all shield resistances

    Role Bonus:
    50% bonus to Rocket and Light Missile velocity


    a very interesting proposition.......but how about doubling the bandwidth directly and adding a tracking and speed bonus?, this could help the medium drones to chase and hit the target better...

    i mean:

    WORM

    Gallente Frigate Bonus:
    10% drone tracking and microwarpdrive speed

    Caldari Frigate Bonus:
    4% bonus to all shield resistances

    Role Bonus:
    50% bonus to Rocket and Light Missile velocity

    drone bandwidth/dronebay = 50/50

    then the ship can field 5 lights or 5 meds, and can have the whole flight of meds or 2 flights of lights
    Dorian Wylde
    Imperial Academy
    Amarr Empire
    #474 - 2014-02-25 22:20:21 UTC
    I feel like I'm the only one who can fathom the Rattlesnake bonus only applying to sentries and heavies, and the gila only applying to mediums. Petty easy solution, considering turrets and missiles already have their bonuses restricted to a specific weapon size.
    Rena Senn
    Halal Gunnery
    #475 - 2014-02-25 22:21:21 UTC
    Looking ahead, if total drone storage gets lowered on certain Guristas ships, how will the system handle those out in space that end up with an overloaded drone bay?
    Ronny Hugo
    KarmaFleet
    Goonswarm Federation
    #476 - 2014-02-25 22:22:59 UTC
    One observation about the Vindicator, I have yet to make an Amarr fit that beats it on Singularity. Lets be honest its bonus to hybrid turrets is actually only a bonus to blasters, because that's what the web bonus is most useful for.
    So either its just me (totally possible, I haven't tried a billion fits against the vindi, more like 5), or that web+damage bonus double-jab always turns into a knockout. Because it can hold the target down, get into optimal on its shotguns and then unleash hell, all while the tied down ships can't do anything against it (a bhaal with 4 turrets and 3 neuts can't take the vindi, because the vindi can get of several salvos for every cap charge and the webs take almost no cap to cycle so timing is easy).
    So I would like the damage bonus to be scaled back just a tiny bit. So that other pirate ships when going head to head against the vindi, can actually have a small chance of getting through the armor in time.
    Btw, why on earth does the vindi have two launcher slots? And why on earth does the bhaal has turret slots at all when its purpose is neuting? All the other pirate battleships does DPS WAAY better than the bhaal, so might as well remove the dps from the bhaal. No one ever fields a bhaal with anything else than neuts. If you want it to have DPS at all give the bhaal a 700% damage bonus and have 1 turret slot, then a bhaal with dps would be fielded.

    Please add some NEW ships also, I'm dying for an abaddon-hull pirate ship that is focused on raw beam weapon melting power (as opposed to the vindi blaster melting power). I suggest range penalty with extreme tracking bonus, and damage multiplier bonus, and 4 turrets with 100% damage bonus instead of a cap usage bonus. Give it 4 high slots, 5 mids and 8 lows, with 800 cargo space (for cap charges, all the cap charges in the universe!).
    TrouserDeagle
    Beyond Divinity Inc
    Shadow Cartel
    #477 - 2014-02-25 22:23:32 UTC
    Leafar Nightfall wrote:
    I've taken a look at the Gila and one thing I noticed is that it is one of the few cruisers that can field large drones/sentry turrets, which is kind of "oversized" drones for its hull

    That being said, none of the frigates can do that (field of mediums), so maybe the Gallente Frigate bonus could be a 5Mbits/s per level. That way you'd be able to field 5 Hammerheads at Gallente Frigate V, which is EXACLTY the same dps of "effective" 8 hobgoblins (158dps without mods). Of course, there are the differences in tracking and so on, but I think that would be fun. That would also give webs a good synergy since that would help both the missiles and the drones to apply DPS.

    WORM

    Gallente Frigate Bonus:
    5Mbit/s Drone Bandwidth (was 5m3 Drone Bay Capacity per level)

    Caldari Frigate Bonus:
    4% bonus to all shield resistances

    Role Bonus:
    50% bonus to Rocket and Light Missile velocity

    Edit: 5 medium drones would also not screw up the drone assist mechanics as some people have mentioned



    oversized is terrible. the dps you get is appropriate for a brawling cruiser, but you end up with battleship 'application', in drone terms. the actual solution is just bigger damage bonuses on regular drones.

    all these medium ships with 75, 100 or 125 bandwidth should just get, say, 15%, 20% and 25% damage per level on 5 mediums.
    Zamyslinski
    Beach Boys
    The Minions.
    #478 - 2014-02-25 22:24:13 UTC
    bout guristas and this 2 drones thingy... why?
    Grath Telkin
    Amok.
    Goonswarm Federation
    #479 - 2014-02-25 22:25:48 UTC
    Silivar Karkun wrote:
    very well then, but someone propose a better set of bonuses instead of that garbage.......300% damage and hitpoints its not worth the change if the ship will be limited to two damage types in missiles and with a nerfed bandwidth


    Its not though, consider it, you'll be able to apply 2 bonused damage types in missiles, and a 3rd in drones.


    So if you were to run Augmented drones (normally this is like a silly thing since they're so expensive but at 3k hp you can actually do that) you have a split damage type there - say kin/explosive for Aug Warriors and then Thermal missles. You will effectively be pumping out 3 damage types, all bonused.

    Thats very hard to tank, and its very hard to mitigate.

    I'm not understanding what you're not liking about these bonuses, I feel like there's something you're not understanding.

    Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
    Leafar Nightfall
    Silent Owls
    #480 - 2014-02-25 22:26:19 UTC
    Silivar Karkun wrote:


    a very interesting proposition.......but how about doubling the bandwidth directly and adding a tracking and speed bonus?, this could help the medium drones to chase and hit the target better...

    i mean:

    WORM

    Gallente Frigate Bonus:
    10% drone tracking and microwarpdrive speed

    Caldari Frigate Bonus:
    4% bonus to all shield resistances

    Role Bonus:
    50% bonus to Rocket and Light Missile velocity

    drone bandwidth/dronebay = 50/50

    then the ship can field 5 lights or 5 meds, and can have the whole flight of meds or 2 flights of lights


    Because the tracking would be the tradeoff for it. If a worm with those bonuses was fit for dps (3x DDA II and a Bay Loading Accelerator Rig II for T2 Rocker launchers), it would have 317 DPS "on paper", which is great DPS specially considering it's range and tank

    Since there already is a good bonus to the ship tanking, you can skip a shield module for a Omnidirectional Tracking Link II