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[Kronos] Pirate Faction Frigates

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TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#321 - 2014-02-25 19:02:57 UTC
Ravcharas wrote:
TrouserDeagle wrote:
Ravcharas wrote:
Why not extend the Worm bonus to all drones? If someone wants to use a single medium instead of two lights, why not enable that choice?


because it's worse in every way and there's never any reason to ever do it ever

Pretty much, except for a quite theoretical paper scenario. But that's not the point. If someone wants to do it why not let them? In order for there to be good choices there also must be poor choices. Or questionable choices. Or indeed edge-case hail-mary choices.


no
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#322 - 2014-02-25 19:03:27 UTC
Ashley Animus wrote:
Altho the worm is really my favorite at the moment it still feels as if the missile bonus is a bit misplaced.

Currently if you fit 2 rocket launchers on it you have 45dps coming from only those rockets.
A 50% increase on damage on only 45dps results in 67.5dps.

A bonus that gives you 22.5dps at best seems a little low (considering you will get around the 200dps from drones alone). And this is only with thermal and kinetic.

I would almost like to see the range bonus back on it since it feels as if that adds more to the power of the missiles rather than this little increase.


mmm.. i think the worm should have 3 launchers change the drones too 3 and reduce the bonus so there is a more even split of dps.. more pg and cpu will prob be needed for it

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#323 - 2014-02-25 19:05:56 UTC
Harvey James wrote:
Ashley Animus wrote:
Altho the worm is really my favorite at the moment it still feels as if the missile bonus is a bit misplaced.

Currently if you fit 2 rocket launchers on it you have 45dps coming from only those rockets.
A 50% increase on damage on only 45dps results in 67.5dps.

A bonus that gives you 22.5dps at best seems a little low (considering you will get around the 200dps from drones alone). And this is only with thermal and kinetic.

I would almost like to see the range bonus back on it since it feels as if that adds more to the power of the missiles rather than this little increase.


mmm.. i think the worm should have 3 launchers change the drones too 3 and reduce the bonus so there is a more even split of dps.. more pg and cpu will prob be needed for it


CCP don't like proper split weapons ships for some reason.
Silivar Karkun
Doomheim
#324 - 2014-02-25 19:06:57 UTC
the problem here is that the idea of Rise is to make them full drone users and take out the bonus to missiles, i think it would make more sense to give them a unique role with drones, and increase their missile bonus, make them shine with one or the other, or both......not make it yet another drone boat...

for the sanshas it could be either a tank bonus or an EWAR one, sansha's usually use tracking disruptors in missions, so it wouldnt be too crazy to think about replacing the 5% damage bonus for a 7,5% bonus to tracking disruptor effectivenes and range, and aditional to that, give them an aditional optimal range for lazors (tied to the 7,5% tracking bonus)
jayla blacks
Gold industry
#325 - 2014-02-25 19:07:44 UTC
..... nerf ashimmu more useless, ashimmu with bonus range ... Shocked

this is not a battleship !!!! it's cruiser !!! take the rapier for range web !! Evil





Don't touche Ashimmu ! X
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#326 - 2014-02-25 19:09:20 UTC
TrouserDeagle wrote:
CCP don't like proper split weapons ships for some reason.


its for a damn good reason...

its called training time.

you need to double the training time when you have split weapon systems...

Personally i would go either all missiles or all drones...

I really think those small drones need a velocity bonus and tracking bonus to make it a really nasty ship...

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Bertrand Butler
Cras es Noster
#327 - 2014-02-25 19:10:34 UTC
Silivar Karkun wrote:
the problem here is that the idea of Rise is to make them full drone users and take out the bonus to missiles, i think it would make more sense to give them a unique role with drones, and increase their missile bonus, make them shine with one or the other, or both......not make it yet another drone boat...


The worm got a damage buff for both missiles and drones. What are you talking about?
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#328 - 2014-02-25 19:13:53 UTC
Ravcharas wrote:
TrouserDeagle wrote:
Ravcharas wrote:
Why not extend the Worm bonus to all drones? If someone wants to use a single medium instead of two lights, why not enable that choice?


because it's worse in every way and there's never any reason to ever do it ever

Pretty much, except for a quite theoretical paper scenario. But that's not the point. If someone wants to do it why not let them? In order for there to be good choices there also must be poor choices. Or questionable choices. Or indeed edge-case hail-mary choices.

It is like that for good reasons, also I believe it is put that way to indicate future limits for the others.
Assuming the Gila gets 20mbps 4 lights are > 2 medium drones and if the rattler gets 50mbps 5 medium > 2 heavy drones.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#329 - 2014-02-25 19:14:13 UTC
this is what i would prefer to see tbh:

WORM

Gallente Frigate Bonus:
7.5% to drone mwd speed and tracking (was 5m3 Drone Bay Capacity per level)

Caldari Frigate Bonus:
4% bonus to all shield resistances

Role Bonus:
300% bonus to light combat drone damage and hitpoints (was 50% bonus to Rocket and Light Missile velocity)


Slot layout: 3H, 4M, 3L; 0 turrets, 2 launchers
Fittings: 40 PWG(+5), 180 CPU(+20)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 830(+33) / 500(-82) / 620(-3)
Capacitor (amount / recharge / cap per second) : 380(+30) / 212000 (-22375) / 1.79 (+.29)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 320(+33) / 3.8(+.31) / 965000 / 5.17s(+.42)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 10(-15) / 25
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 30km / 650 / 5
Sensor strength: 15
Signature radius: 40

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#330 - 2014-02-25 19:16:13 UTC
Little Blackjack wrote:

Never flown a sansha, did you? Can't use AB long term cause it eats the cap u need for the lasers/shields. No second of cap to spend on AB in current config. So useless bonus without cap changes.


Are you joking?
Silivar Karkun
Doomheim
#331 - 2014-02-25 19:16:46 UTC
Bertrand Butler wrote:
Silivar Karkun wrote:
the problem here is that the idea of Rise is to make them full drone users and take out the bonus to missiles, i think it would make more sense to give them a unique role with drones, and increase their missile bonus, make them shine with one or the other, or both......not make it yet another drone boat...


The worm got a damage buff for both missiles and drones. What are you talking about?


that bonus to kin and therm damage is garbage.......
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#332 - 2014-02-25 19:17:40 UTC
Tuxedo Catfish wrote:
I love all these changes, buffs and nerfs alike. This is the happiest I've been with tiericide since the t1 cruiser changes.

edit: Especially the part about leaving Serpentis mostly alone, since they're the baseline other pirate ships should aim for.


while i hope they do not touch serp web bonus i would not be at all suprised if they nerfed it to 7.5% per level making it 82.5% strong and not 90%

much like they did with the resist bonus which used to be the best bonus a ship could get.

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#333 - 2014-02-25 19:19:02 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
Tuxedo Catfish wrote:
I love all these changes, buffs and nerfs alike. This is the happiest I've been with tiericide since the t1 cruiser changes.

edit: Especially the part about leaving Serpentis mostly alone, since they're the baseline other pirate ships should aim for.


while i hope they do not touch serp web bonus i would not be at all suprised if they nerfed it to 7.5% per level making it 82.5% strong and not 90%

much like they did with the resist bonus which used to be the best bonus a ship could get.


that's still insanely powerful. try 40% normal webs, 50% serpentis webs.
woodall
Nemesis-Theory
#334 - 2014-02-25 19:19:12 UTC
I'm most interested around the Sansha ships as the Succubus and Phantasm are really really unpopular even compared to their Blood Raider and Gurista counterparts. This afterburner bonus is nice and adds something different, as especially paired with the huge buff to it's velocity will result in it achieving like 1500+ m/s. So even scrammed and webbed it'll still be doing 600 or so m/s.

Something I think would be even better and even more unique, though. Changing that 20% bonus to afterburner velocity to a 10% reduction in effectiveness of all targeted electronic warfare. So at frigate level 5; 60% webs are only 30% webs, ECM is only half as powerful, target painters only bloom the signature radius half as much, and so on including sensor dampeners, tracking disruptors, energy vampires and neutralisers etc. Warp disruptors and warp scramblers wouldn't affected by this ship bonus in any way.

Anyways, just an idea I think is pretty cool, and pretty unique (also kind of plays on the Sansha high tech lore stuff). Overall, however, I'm pretty happy with these changes and can't wait to see what they do with the rest of the pirate ships.
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#335 - 2014-02-25 19:21:42 UTC
woodall wrote:
I'm most interested around the Sansha ships as the Succubus and Phantasm are really really unpopular even compared to their Blood Raider and Gurista counterparts. This afterburner bonus is nice and adds something different, as especially paired with the huge buff to it's velocity will result in it achieving like 1500+ m/s. So even scrammed and webbed it'll still be doing 600 or so m/s.


More like twice that. It does ~1000m/s already on ab. Its getting basically a 16% base velocity bonus and a 100% ab boost bonus.
PinkKnife
The Cuddlefish
Ethereal Dawn
#336 - 2014-02-25 19:22:51 UTC
Side note, for the blood raider line, have you thought about giving them a bonus to the neut drones? I know you said you didn't want to touch the ewar drones until they are balanced, but it would make for an interesting line up.

You can still get the neut power without having to force highslots to be neuts, meaning it can have applicable dps, or fewer highs and better mids/lows. While also forcing the trade off of destructible systems (blowing up neut drones, etc). It gives it a nice change and makes for an easier ship to try and do so many things (webs + neuts + damage + tank, is a lot for such few modules).
Onslaughtor
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#337 - 2014-02-25 19:25:28 UTC
As a person who loves the Sansha ships I'm a little torn. I really do like what your trying to do with the ships, but I feel it strays way to far what Sansha ships ARE, and that's fleet combat vessels. Unlike all the other pirates Sansha's Nation is not just a bunch of pirates but a sovereign entity, and theirs ships should reflect that. My opinion is to leave the design as it is and give it some tweaks to facilitate fleet work and add a little bit of damage.

change the damage bonus to 7.5% per level
move the 2 utility highs to a mid and a low.
adjust some ehp and fitting space.

This would make the entire line viable without sacrificing any of the flavor sansha ships have.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#338 - 2014-02-25 19:25:49 UTC
TrouserDeagle wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:

while i hope they do not touch serp web bonus i would not be at all suprised if they nerfed it to 7.5% per level making it 82.5% strong and not 90%

much like they did with the resist bonus which used to be the best bonus a ship could get.


that's still insanely powerful. try 40% normal webs, 50% serpentis webs.


true enough I remember though back in the marauder thread that was the idea they were going for and still people were pretty upset by it...

so perhaps starting with just a reduction in 2.5% per level would be a good place to start.

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Marcel Devereux
Aideron Robotics
Aideron Robotics.
#339 - 2014-02-25 19:27:21 UTC
Mournful Conciousness wrote:
Everything seems reasonable to me until I get this this bit...
CCP Rise wrote:

Role Bonus:
300% bonus to light combat drone damage and hitpoints

... which just seems icky.

I would prefer to see 5 light drones fielded with a 150% modifier to drone HP and damage, which is roughly the same effect but somewhat more elegant and in keeping existing mechanics.

I am interested as to the reason for choosing a limited number of drones with a very high multiplier (which seems difficult to justify in any reasonable narrative). If it was because of concerns about server performance, I would argue that these concerns are unwarranted.



Being different to be different isn't a valid answer. The only half-way acceptable answer here is if you are using this as a test bed to reduce server load for drones. Even then it is pretty weak.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#340 - 2014-02-25 19:27:49 UTC
I have a feeling faction and dead space afterburners sell prices are going to spike...

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.