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[Kronos] Pirate Faction Frigates

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Tertiacero
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#301 - 2014-02-25 18:43:22 UTC
I would personally love to see the vigilant get a small buff to lock range (enough to make rails a viable option) and have the ashimmu's pg and cpu opened up a tiny bit, enough to cover the difference in meta 4 and t2 plates.

Other than that, looks good so far.
Ghost Hunter
True Slave Foundations
#302 - 2014-02-25 18:45:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Ghost Hunter
The Succubus still looks like garbage to me, if I'm honest.

Dual prop fits is an idea, but you're looking at plating the lows or making it a pure speedy glass cannon. Dramiel does both better with more reliable damage projection. MSE tankibus likes the AB changes, so heavy tackle against slow targets is a thing until it gets 2 or more webs thrown down on it, or gut shot by a neutralizer. Usual frigate problem there, though.

What considerations are there for making the Succubus a synergy frigate? A logi-repair bonus or repair receiving bonus that incentivizes groups over single ship powerhousing? It would fit the Sansha MO more, and more squarely place the Succubus in the 'assault frigate' level rather than the awkward inbetween with interceptors it exists at.

(Why the Immolator got the shield rep bonus over the heavier Succubus still baffles me)

True Slave Foundations Overseer

ϕ
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#303 - 2014-02-25 18:45:17 UTC
Tertiacero wrote:
I would personally love to see the vigilant get a small buff to lock range (enough to make rails a viable option) and have the ashimmu's pg and cpu opened up a tiny bit, enough to cover the difference in meta 4 and t2 plates.

Other than that, looks good so far.


the short lock range is precisely to stop you from using rails on serpentis ships. it hasn't worked, so they should reduce it even further, or drop the bonus to only blasters.
Silivar Karkun
Doomheim
#304 - 2014-02-25 18:46:01 UTC
SUCCUBUS

Amarr Frigate Bonus:
7.5% bonus to Small Energy Turret tracking speed and optimal range

Caldari Frigate Bonus:
7,5% reduction to shield boost capacitor need

Role Bonus:
125% bonus to Small Energy Turret damage (was 100% energy turret damage)


Slot layout: 3H(-1), 4M, 3L(+1); 2 turrets, 0 launchers
Fittings: 44 PWG(-14), 170 CPU(-5)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 650(+41) / 550(+6) / 540(+23)
Capacitor (amount / recharge / cap per second) : 450(+15) / 210000 (-24375) / 2.14 (+.09)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 340(+53) / 3.5(-.35) / 965000 / 4.68s(-.4)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 0 / 0
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 32km / 650 / 5
Sensor strength: 13
Signature radius: 33(+2)
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#305 - 2014-02-25 18:48:11 UTC
Bertrand Butler wrote:
Mournful Conciousness wrote:

If I understand you correctly you are saying that the 2-drone solution creates a longer delay before drone damage is reduced by someone killing your drones, whereas in the 5-drone solution your damage is reduced more linearly.

None of this was lost on me (thank you for the unnecessary implied ad-hominem). I cannot see that it will have a significant effect on overall damage output when replacement drones are used during the course of a fight.

Mechanics (and sniping) aside, my position remains unanswered. In what narrative would the same drones suddenly become 4 times as strong merely by being controlled by a given ship?


No ad-hominem intended, really. Sorry for that, my english is not perfect.

What I am trying to say is that if you do the math, the overall damage output will be much higher. Even with adjustments for multiple targeting/weapon cycling. More benefits for the bonus would be added resilience against EoE (sbs) and npcs, server optimization if/when scaling becomes an issue, good scaling of rigs like the drone durability enhancer for example (that went unused due to a nasty CPU bite), more effective drone bay capacity (20 scout drones for the new worm) etc.

The downsides for this change would be a nerf to versatility when using the hull as a support drone boat (by tying the bonus to a specific drone type and removing effective bandwidth for other types).

Overall, I really like it, and can already think of a couple of PvP applications that will make the hull very good (hell, the Taipan was better than it before the change).

Regarding your lore/narrative objection, think about all hulls that get big bonuses, from turrets/launchers to rep modules etc. Thats the same turrets and launchers used in other ships without getting the bonus.


i think the best option is too reduce the bonus and gear it towards 3 drones instead

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Master Sergeant MacRobert
Red Sky Morning
The Amarr Militia.
#306 - 2014-02-25 18:48:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Master Sergeant MacRobert
CCP Rise wrote:
Mornin!


Sansha: Sansha needs help. The Nightmare is getting used, mostly as a PVE platform, but the Succubus and Phantasm are among the least used ships in EVE. That means we have an opportunity to try something new! The theme we are currently excited about revolves around afterburners. By giving a substantial boost to the velocity bonus from afterburners we create an extremely powerful frigate, a lot of new options for the cruiser, and affect the Nightmare the least, which matches well with the impact we want.




SUCCUBUS

Amarr Frigate Bonus:
7.5% bonus to Small Energy Turret tracking speed

Caldari Frigate Bonus:
20% bonus to Afterburner velocity bonus (was 5% energy turret damage)

Role Bonus:
125% bonus to Small Energy Turret damage (was 100% energy turret damage)



All looks nice but, I must admit, I was hoping you might give them (Sansha) a passive armour regeneration (more Borg like). After all the Sansha's keep dropping armour mods.

"Remedy this situation or you shall live out the rest of your life in a pain amplifier"
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#307 - 2014-02-25 18:49:07 UTC
Harvey James wrote:
TrouserDeagle wrote:
Tikktokk Tokkzikk wrote:
The Dramiel needs something special other than "OP Firetail", in my opinion. Sansha got afterburners, Blood Raiders got webs and nosferatu, Guristas got super drones, Serpentis got 90% web and Angel got what? I wouldn't mind a nerf to the Angel ships if we got a special bonus like the other pirate races.


actual effective projectile turrets, ridiculous speed, sig, agility and scan res should be enough to make a decent ship.

if not though, I'm voting for split weapons, provided that light missiles are fixed before any more missile frigates are made.


split weapons and being able to armour tank ... these are minnie traits .. the angel line needs more uniqueness and distinction away from minnie ships

I just want my blaster / rockets bonused ship that can only hull tank.

Founder of Violet Squadron, a small gang NPSI community! Mail me for more information.

BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie's Space Mediation Service!
Bagehi
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#308 - 2014-02-25 18:49:38 UTC
Not a hugely important thing, but I've always wondered why the Vigilant and Vindicator have green backgrounds and the Daredevil has the rust background of Minmatar/Cartel. Also, why the ship is colored Minmatar/Cartel while the other two have distinctive Guardian/Serpentis colors.
Teoshen
Transcendent Innovations Incorporated
#309 - 2014-02-25 18:49:57 UTC
Connor Frost wrote:
First I will state that the Rattlesnake is hands down my favorite ship in the game. That goes for PVP and PVE and I feel like the drone number loss is going to be a significant disadvantage. Even given the increased HP on drones there are fewer drones for players and NPCs to have to target at kill. Its a pain to use Drones in PVE as it is and this seems to only make it worse.

I may be biased cause I love the rattle how it is and prefer minor tweaks over larger changes.


I would like to chime in on this as agreeing with Connor there..
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#310 - 2014-02-25 18:50:30 UTC
Silivar Karkun wrote:
Caldari Frigate Bonus:
7,5% reduction to shield boost capacitor need


lolwtf

Oh god.
Silivar Karkun
Doomheim
#311 - 2014-02-25 18:53:59 UTC
Bagehi wrote:
Not a hugely important thing, but I've always wondered why the Vigilant and Vindicator have green backgrounds and the Daredevil has the rust background of Minmatar/Cartel. Also, why the ship is colored Minmatar/Cartel while the other two have distinctive Guardian/Serpentis colors.


its from a lore standpoint, the daredevil was constructed from angel engineers and as such shares the same appearance than the dramiel, while not being minmatar focused, the daredevil has a minmatar origin, but its designed to be used for serpentis agents and as such shares the hybrid and armor bonuses of the other hulls, the vigilant and the vindicator where designs stolen from the gallente navy, and as such have a gallente origin, thus the different background on the icon
Lady Ayeipsia
BlueWaffe
#312 - 2014-02-25 18:54:25 UTC
I still think the best fix for the worm would be to take CCP's suggestion, but stretch the bonus to all drone types.
Let the worm field 2 light web drones that are durable, provide a stronger web impact, but don't face the stacking penalties that 5 webbers currently face. Or the worm could field light repper drones and not lose efficiency because the 2 it fields ate as strong as 5 normal light reppers.

This way the worm can fight, but can still function in a drone support role and brings more value to underused ewar drones.
Ravcharas
Infinite Point
Pandemic Horde
#313 - 2014-02-25 18:54:30 UTC
Why not extend the Worm bonus to all drones? If someone wants to use a single medium instead of two lights, why not enable that choice?
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#314 - 2014-02-25 18:57:08 UTC
Ravcharas wrote:
Why not extend the Worm bonus to all drones? If someone wants to use a single medium instead of two lights, why not enable that choice?


because it's worse in every way and there's never any reason to ever do it ever
Ashley Animus
7th Temporal Lounge
#315 - 2014-02-25 18:57:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Ashley Animus
Altho the worm is really my favorite at the moment it still feels as if the missile bonus is a bit misplaced.

Currently if you fit 2 rocket launchers on it you have 45dps coming from only those rockets.
A 50% increase on damage on only 45dps results in 67.5dps.

A bonus that gives you 22.5dps at best seems a little low (considering you will get around the 200dps from drones alone). And this is only with thermal and kinetic.

I would almost like to see the range bonus back on it since it feels as if that adds more to the power of the missiles rather than this little increase.
Silivar Karkun
Doomheim
#316 - 2014-02-25 18:58:11 UTC
Riot Girl wrote:
Silivar Karkun wrote:
Caldari Frigate Bonus:
7,5% reduction to shield boost capacitor need


lolwtf


i dont see why not
Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#317 - 2014-02-25 19:00:11 UTC
Bagehi wrote:
Not a hugely important thing, but I've always wondered why the Vigilant and Vindicator have green backgrounds and the Daredevil has the rust background of Minmatar/Cartel. Also, why the ship is colored Minmatar/Cartel while the other two have distinctive Guardian/Serpentis colors.

Rise actually responded to a thread I made about this and the nestor's BG. He said they're fixing all of them to have the right ones in a patch soon.

"A City made of Dreams is built in heaven"
Ravcharas
Infinite Point
Pandemic Horde
#318 - 2014-02-25 19:02:18 UTC
TrouserDeagle wrote:
Ravcharas wrote:
Why not extend the Worm bonus to all drones? If someone wants to use a single medium instead of two lights, why not enable that choice?


because it's worse in every way and there's never any reason to ever do it ever

Pretty much, except for a quite theoretical paper scenario. But that's not the point. If someone wants to do it why not let them? In order for there to be good choices there also must be poor choices. Or questionable choices. Or indeed edge-case hail-mary choices.
Tuxedo Catfish
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#319 - 2014-02-25 19:02:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Tuxedo Catfish
I love all these changes, buffs and nerfs alike. This is the happiest I've been with tiericide since the t1 cruiser changes.

edit: Especially the part about leaving Serpentis mostly alone, since they're the baseline other pirate ships should aim for.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#320 - 2014-02-25 19:02:30 UTC
I was really hopping split weapon systems were a thing of the past... please rethink the missile bonus and replace with something for drones or e-war or something that requries imagination...

like how about a bonus to e-war drones or utility drones...

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.