These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Wormholes

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
Previous page123Next page
 

Dearest Whale Girth

First post
Author
Van Steiza
The Primordials
#21 - 2014-02-27 14:49:08 UTC
Oh my Glorious Dread -

Rest in peace sweet prince.
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#22 - 2014-02-27 15:09:13 UTC
Think good fights under those circumstances are quite rare, both times one party jumped into the others home-wormhole.
In those two fights, one party jumped into the other knowing they'd be going down. Streiza jumped his Nagger Gun into our wormhole just to see it die (arguably their other dread went lost in transition it seems), Aq jumped his nag into their magnetar-homehole - though slightly underestimating the dps-output of 4 dreads in a mag.

The fact that neither side just blobbed the **** out of the other in those two situations is what made them so special. (First fight was about even numbers, with us throwing 2 pve-dreads at their pvp-dread, second round was BF outnumbering WG-subcaps, but they deployed a matching fleetcomp to take advantage of their dreadsuperiority and scored the dunk)

Just in comparison, other *notable* wormholegroups don't even dare to take a fight that doesn't happen at 0m on a wormhole, or just simply starts complaining that hostiles refuse to get rolled in as a prereq for any action to happen. Another very poplar method is to bring 6+ guards in a 15man fleet (no namecalling ;)), a tactic that also wasn't employed - to everyone's content.

Tl;dr: Thread was about a good fight, contained a videoreport from both perspectives - I can't see what's not to like. I'd be in favor of more people posting BRs here, since those are what wormholes ultimately boil down to.
Bane Nucleus
Dark Venture Corporation
Kitchen Sinkhole
#23 - 2014-02-27 16:21:18 UTC
Wormhole fights tend to look the same because of the nature of wormholes. They are NOT permanent , infinite mass structures. You also end up 5k or less from the wormhole. No jumping in your nano gang and expecting to survive when you have a bubble up and a massive gang on the other side waiting for you. Low mass, big tank ships are the best option (T3's).

Now, I will even admit that I don't enjoy the wormhole meta of armor t3s, guardians, etc..I'm hoping they "balance" the T3 ships enough to where other ships are just as viable

No trolling please

Aquila Sagitta
Blue-Fire
#24 - 2014-02-27 16:29:55 UTC
Lloyd Roses wrote:
Aq jumped his nag into their magnetar-homehole - though slightly underestimating the dps-output of 4 dreads in a mag.


I knew damn well what I was jumping into P
And def didn't expect to come out alive!
mechform
#25 - 2014-02-27 16:36:01 UTC
Ask Rob, and proc will deliver. boballelujah.

#missedtheshortbusandstillgotschooled

Black Power - Brotha's in space unite!

Joan Greywind
The Lazy Crabs
#26 - 2014-02-27 19:16:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Joan Greywind
mechform wrote:
Ask Rob, and proc will deliver. boballelujah.

#missedtheshortbusandstillgotschooled


Yes because "it's not good but we don't want it to be worse" argument is me getting schooled. Like null sec or not, but they don't go around saying "sov is not good, but we don't ask for change because CCP might ruin it". It seems the only people that stayed in wh space over the 4th year of stagnation are the people with that sort of weak point of view.

Yea the kills you linked are not opening for me for some weird reason, but I can bet they are mostly (if not all) the typical t3 fight on a wh entrance.

And even if you bothered to look at the corp history of this "alt" (which I have explained multiple times how it really isn't, but you choose to ignore anyways) you would have known that I have been in at least a couple (possibly much more) fights in wh space. If you have see one you have seen all really, and that is the heart of the problem.

So yes stroke each other's back with your hash tags and "troll speak" but you argument basically boils down to "We are afraid of change because things might get worse, so we hang on to what little we have now".

Wh is not active enough, safe and stagnant, and it is a time for some changes. And no one used the word "broken" btw, mechanically speaking wormhole space is the best space in game, just small, but important changes to make the meta vibrant again.
AgentFiftySix
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2014-02-27 19:55:46 UTC
Joan Greywind wrote:


And even if you bothered to look at the corp history of this "alt" (which I have explained multiple times how it really isn't, but you choose to ignore anyways) you would have known that I have been in at least a couple (possibly much more) fights in wh space. If you have see one you have seen all really, and that is the heart of the problem.

So yes stroke each other's back with your hash tags and "troll speak" but you argument basically boils down to "We are afraid of change because things might get worse, so we hang on to what little we have now".

Wh is not active enough, safe and stagnant, and it is a time for some changes. And no one used the word "broken" btw, mechanically speaking wormhole space is the best space in game, just small, but important changes to make the meta vibrant again.



I'm just going to go ahead and call you out here. You were in Temnava for 2 months during which time you had 0 kills in any space. Either your claim that you have ever been a WH battle is false or your assertion that you are in fact not posting on an alt is false. Even if you were posting on your main I would still ignore your ridiculous statements about the stagnation of W-Space. Maybe try using "I feel" statements as it might make you sound less stupid, although I'm not sure there is any hope for that.
Proclus Diadochu
Mar Sarrim
Red Coat Conspiracy
#28 - 2014-02-27 22:22:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Proclus Diadochu
Joan Greywind wrote:
Proc4CSM


Alright, so to start with, you basically asserted that I called the wormhole community a bunch of pansies for saying that they don’t think that the wormhole community is broken enough to ask CCP for hard changes. I, in fact, said that the overwhelming understanding was that the community would rather not ask CCP to change things and ruin the community.

Now, I’ll break this down into simple English, since I’m assuming based on your two months with my former alliance brethren, English is not your first language: Wormholers. Don’t. Think. Wormholes. Are. Broken.

Overall, some would like a purple wormhole here, or dual static C4 there. Some would like POS changes, some would like T3 rebalancing, some don’t want T3 rebalancing, some would like better isk potential in lower-end wormholes, some (read: many) think wormholes are fine.

The problem with you, alt of some random who claims to have been in more wormhole fights than me (which I find laughable and highly unlikely), is you assert your fictions, that you conceive in that marble-infested brain of yours, as facts, presenting them as facts that we, the wormhole community, should agree with you upon, or face you telling us we are “scared”. Even my “bag o’ dicks” line has more creativity than your seventh grade attempt at a troll.

Your argument that T3/Dread fights are bland is nothing new. If you put on your big boy britches and venture outside the yard, you’d see that other communities have very similar issues. Bane hit the nail when he said that T3 usage is a product of our environment, just like Super/Titan/T2 Sentry warfare is the end all norm in null right now. These methodologies are the products of the environment. Now, Bane called it when he said that T3 rebalancing could resolve this “issue”, if it is even an issue.

You said that T3 fights are just the same of same of same, and frankly, you still haven’t shown that you’ve ever been involved in one. (Also, just copy the links and post them in the address bar to see the killmails, you have to be some level of dumb to not have known the issue exists, but what ev’s) The fact, as stated earlier in your little school lesson is that they are fun. FUN. I enjoy the everything of a fight on, near, whatever a wormhole with my (Insert T3/Bhaalgorn[R.I.P.]), because you can say whatever you want, spew whatever nonsense about the tedium of T3’s and wormholes, but those fights are fun, and if you are doing it right, can go either way. The reason why most of the time, they are slaughters, even though they can last 1-2 hours is because in the fight, the players have to make critical decisions with their ships, that can make or break the fight for one side. Every ship counts, and it isn’t just the numbers, but the roles, the force multiplying, the FC’ing, the coordination, the discipline.

You know nothing, Joan Snow.

Minister of High Society | Twitter: @autoritare

E-mail: diogenes.proc@gmail.com

My Blog: http://diogenes-club.blogspot.com/

The Diogenes Club | Join W-Space | Down The Pipe

Calmatt
Sanctuary of Shadows
Dock Workers
#29 - 2014-02-27 23:01:35 UTC
Proclus Diadochu wrote:
Joan Greywind wrote:
Proc4CSM

You know nothing, Joan Snow.


Aye but that TUNGUE.
Bane Nucleus
Dark Venture Corporation
Kitchen Sinkhole
#30 - 2014-02-27 23:31:28 UTC
Proclus Diadochu wrote:


Bane is right. All hail Bane.



Summarized for everyone else who didn't read it. P

No trolling please

Joan Greywind
The Lazy Crabs
#31 - 2014-02-27 23:51:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Joan Greywind
Proclus Diadochu wrote:
Joan Greywind wrote:
Proc4CSM


Stuff.


See that is the problem, you keep warping what I say to fit your own narrative.

1- I never said you called the community anything, I just stated that you don't want any changes because you are afraid CCP are going to **** it up, which you said in this very topic.

2- I never said wormholes are broken, I even stated that in words in the topic also, I said the meta is stagnant, which totally different from being broken.

3- I never claimed I had more wh kills than you, I just stated in the last 2 month on this "forum alt" I had more kills than your "main", just showing that this isn't a forum alt, and if it is the only character I post with, that has connections to the people I fly with, who are you to say that this isn't deemed worthy to post with.

4- I never said anyone should agree with me, I was just stating my opinion, it was you in fact that jumps at the first opportunity to claim that you are all knowing, throwing your epeen around, and basically stating your opinions as facts.

5- When you use the same ships, with similar fittings, with similar setups, with similar tactics, in similar locations, then yes the fights are bland, they are repetitive and there is very little room for creative and strategic initiative. I mean look at the battle reports you linked, they look the same, and they have been for the last 4 years.

6- So bane is proposing a t3 balance of some sort, and how is that different from what I am asking? It is exactly the same point, why is he right and I am wrong? And if you haven't noticed ships including the very metas you mentioned supers, titans, and sentries required CCP to intervene multiple times and balance them, that is the only way they can got them fixed. When any strat is not balanced you can't blame the players for using them, that is exactly why CCP has to come in and balance an overused (hence overpowered) class of ships.

7- I really didn't want to bring this into the conversation, but temnava was part of NOHO, and do you think they will invite some scrub with no wh experience into their alliance? I mean if anybody loves their t3's its NOHO and you can't be there without using them. Disclaimer: Any opinion of mine or connection does not reflect on them in any way.

8- I never said they aren't fun, or that they aren't worth having, on the contrary those fights are some of the best I had, but when they are the only type of fights in wh space then it becomes a problem.

It doesn't matter what you think or I think, the numbers show that wh are stagnant, losing members, same fights over and over with no evolution of any sort of meta, if you think that is ok all the power to you, I on the other hand is of the opinion that wh space can be so much better. F*** me for wanting better right?

And sorry for highjacking the thread xD, I am an assh*** I know.
Bane Nucleus
Dark Venture Corporation
Kitchen Sinkhole
#32 - 2014-02-28 00:12:05 UTC
Joan Greywind wrote:


It doesn't matter what you think or I think, the numbers show that wh are stagnant, losing members, same fights over and over with no evolution of any sort of meta,


Can you post a link to the numbers that show wormholes are stagnant? I am genuinely curious to see those statistics.

No trolling please

Blodhgarm Dethahal
Moist Towelettes.
#33 - 2014-02-28 00:57:48 UTC
Bane Nucleus wrote:
Joan Greywind wrote:


It doesn't matter what you think or I think, the numbers show that wh are stagnant, losing members, same fights over and over with no evolution of any sort of meta,


Can you post a link to the numbers that show wormholes are stagnant? I am genuinely curious to see those statistics.


I'd like to see that stat too.. in recent times I feel our population has been growing (I'd guess null guys experiancing burn out from null migrating to WHs).
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#34 - 2014-02-28 01:02:38 UTC
Got to say, it's quite foolish to call those T3-pimpfests boring at all. It just so happens that many colliding entities can field roughly even numbers or atleast succesfully pretend to only have matching numbers to make fantastic engagements or sometimes horribly onesided ganks, but welp happens. It's (T3-warfare) a game that is played at the upper top of tech you can buy - and every oh so little difference in tactics and positioning can make for a vastly varying outcome, even though both sides are - for the unsuspecting - fielding identical fleets.
I'd assume that more people would be flying an astarte instead of a proteus if it wouldn't take that much more time to train.
Proclus Diadochu
Mar Sarrim
Red Coat Conspiracy
#35 - 2014-02-28 01:27:12 UTC
Blodhgarm Dethahal wrote:
Bane Nucleus wrote:
Joan Greywind wrote:


It doesn't matter what you think or I think, the numbers show that wh are stagnant, losing members, same fights over and over with no evolution of any sort of meta,


Can you post a link to the numbers that show wormholes are stagnant? I am genuinely curious to see those statistics.


I'd like to see that stat too.. in recent times I feel our population has been growing (I'd guess null guys experiancing burn out from null migrating to WHs).


I, too, would like to see these stats...

Minister of High Society | Twitter: @autoritare

E-mail: diogenes.proc@gmail.com

My Blog: http://diogenes-club.blogspot.com/

The Diogenes Club | Join W-Space | Down The Pipe

Tul Breetai
Impromptu Asset Requisition
#36 - 2014-02-28 01:46:04 UTC
Proclus Diadochu wrote:
Blodhgarm Dethahal wrote:
Bane Nucleus wrote:
Joan Greywind wrote:


It doesn't matter what you think or I think, the numbers show that wh are stagnant, losing members, same fights over and over with no evolution of any sort of meta,


Can you post a link to the numbers that show wormholes are stagnant? I am genuinely curious to see those statistics.


I'd like to see that stat too.. in recent times I feel our population has been growing (I'd guess null guys experiancing burn out from null migrating to WHs).


I, too, would like to see these stats...

I, too, would like to see these stats...

However, I'm in agreement with Greywind, though I won't claim facts or stats. We should put some pressure on Chitsa to get us some numbers.

There's nothing worse than an EVE player, generally considered to be top of the food chain in the MMO world, that cannot smacktalk with wit and coherency.

Bane Nucleus
Dark Venture Corporation
Kitchen Sinkhole
#37 - 2014-02-28 02:42:58 UTC
In the past, Two Step was able to provide some statistics, such as POS's killed in each class of wormhole. I am assuming Chitsa or that other guy (his name escapes me) can get the same stuff.

No trolling please

AssassinationsdoneWrong
Deep Core Mining Inc.
#38 - 2014-02-28 07:19:33 UTC
Bane Nucleus wrote:
Joan Greywind wrote:


It doesn't matter what you think or I think, the numbers show that wh are stagnant, losing members, same fights over and over with no evolution of any sort of meta,


Can you post a link to the numbers that show wormholes are stagnant? I am genuinely curious to see those statistics.



To my mind we had a quiet Christmas and then came back to targets everywhere! WH's C1-4 are repopulating very quickly.

The "WH meta" isn't stagnant either.I see groups, some of whom are good friends, trying all sorts of new fleet disciplines and if you ever follow the Alliance Tournament you'll see some of the shock wins are coming more and more from WH folk and their ability to think out of the box.

But if you are asking me whether I would rather push a heavy BS fleet or a same DPS and 150%+ tanked T3 fleet through to a fight ? ............... Lemme think about it.

The Nexus 7's

What we fall short of in numbers we more than make up for in stupidity

Axloth Okiah
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#39 - 2014-02-28 15:28:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Axloth Okiah
Joan Greywind wrote:
numbers

So when are you going to show us the numbers? You keep talking about them, but they are nowhere to be seen. Are they the UFO or Big Foot kind of numbers?
Bane Nucleus
Dark Venture Corporation
Kitchen Sinkhole
#40 - 2014-02-28 15:53:17 UTC
I think the one key point you are missing Joan is that wh space gives us access to all kinds of space. This allows us to have fun in high/low/null if we want. To limit ourselves to one small spot in Eve to pvp, when you have such access is foolish, at best.

Secondly, I have already explained why the meta is the way it is. T3s offer the best tank/dps/mass combination in game. It's quite simple to see why it hasn't changed. No other ships come close. I would like to see more options in the future, but for right now, that is your best option.

Lastly, post the numbers you saw.

No trolling please

Previous page123Next page