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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Give new players free SP

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Malcolm Shinhwa
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#61 - 2014-02-24 18:42:18 UTC
From now on I'm just going to answer all threads about how newbies don't want to stay or can't compete and only get roflstomped by vets, or scammed out of the game, or whatever the "newbies won't stay in Eve" comment with this:

Brave ******* Newbies

[i]"The purpose of fighting is to win. There is no possible victory in defense. The sword is more important than the shield and skill is more important than either. The final weapon is the brain. All else is supplemental[/i]."
AnotherUseless Alt
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#62 - 2014-02-24 18:48:03 UTC
The question is: Do we need the self-serving, cheat enabled, instant gratification player that this will attract? Shocked

Fact is, there are a lot of them out there, and EvE needs new blood and more income. Oops

"Self help is all in your head"
Vyl Vit
#63 - 2014-02-24 19:09:10 UTC
Yeah. MMO shoppers want to speed their way to gankdom. They already can pawn.
They're just hampered by the unreasonable time it takes to get the good gear.

Where have I heard this one before?

Paradise is like where you are right now, only much, much better.
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#64 - 2014-02-24 19:10:38 UTC
Malcolm Shinhwa wrote:
From now on I'm just going to answer all threads about how newbies don't want to stay or can't compete and only get roflstomped by vets, or scammed out of the game, or whatever the "newbies won't stay in Eve" comment with this:

Brave ******* Newbies


Dammit Mal! I was just getting ready to post IB4 Mal drops "Brave ******* Newbies!" on the thread.

Damn yous!!!!!

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!
Divine Entervention
Doomheim
#65 - 2014-02-24 19:20:16 UTC
Wow

what a ****** community
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#66 - 2014-02-24 19:47:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Mr Epeen
New players are new.

They don't know what it was like before.

Start them off with zero SP (what I'd do) and they'll cry.
Change it to 800k SP and they'll cry.
Switch to 2x SP for the first month and they'll cry.
Give them learning skills so they train faster and they cry.
Get rid of learning skills to save them wasting SP and they cry.
Do anything but give them an 'iWin' button and they cry.

See the pattern?

Mr Epeen Cool
Orlacc
#67 - 2014-02-24 20:04:39 UTC
Diamond Zerg wrote:
Jack Morrison wrote:
brinelan wrote:
Plenty of new players stick around and fly t1 frigates as they skill up, and there are plenty of corps that take newer players. I don't see a problem.


He just wants everything now......

Skilling for something new and finally getting it is both exciting and rewarding, something the veteran players don't have anymore, for them it is just 2% here and 1% there with taking skills to V.
Enjoy while it lasts, if you are really inpatient though, grind some isk in FW/incursions (little skills needed in FW) and buy a toon in the bazaar.

If you are however inpatient and lazy, then this game is definitely not for you - contract me your stuff and have fun elsewhere.


Bro, this is an alt, I'm a veteran who cares about the future of the game.



No you are not. If you were you would remember learning skills. Removing them WAS giving new players SP.

"Measure Twice, Cut Once."
ISD Tyrozan
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#68 - 2014-02-24 20:07:17 UTC
Thread has been moved to Features & Ideas Discussion.

ISD Tyrozan

Captain

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department

@ISDTyrozan | @ISD_CCL
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#69 - 2014-02-24 21:23:22 UTC
Divine Entervention wrote:
Wow

what a ****** community

You're right, reacting negatively to a heavy-handed "newbie friendly" solution to a non-existent problem makes us ******.

Never mind that it's near impossible to implement without slighting someone, not covering a use case, causing enormous economical problems, balance problems (let me just pull out my alts newbie friends here), and the raging sense of entitlement and expecting something for nothing that it encourages. On top of that, there is no evidence that I know of that "but I want to fly {shiny ship here} Cry" is a common cause for quitting. If a player quits for that reason, it implicitly means they do not agree with Eve's spirit of "earn your place". Eve is healthy and growing as is, so I see no reason to want it to change to accommodate newbies who believe they are entitled to flying all ships, access to all corps/alliances, full abilities, all from the get-go with no effort.

But no, we're a ****** community.

Diamond Zerg wrote:

Many prestigious corporations in EVE will require you to have a full T2 fit battleship, HAC, or even capital ship before they consider your application.

Side point, but you are aware that those requirements are there not because those ships are necessary, but because having them trained is an indicator of having dedicated a good amount of time to the game, and thus knowing your way around? Give newbies easy access to T2 fit battleships, or 100 mil SP to start with (for example) and "prestigious" corps will start demanding 100 kills on your killboard, or 5 billion ISK in the wallet, or 10 alts, and those same newbies you're trying to help will be left out all the same.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
Diamond Zerg
Taking Solo Away.
#70 - 2014-02-24 22:34:03 UTC
No Petrus, it's because to be viable in a wide array of combat situations you simply need those ships.

Being part of big fleets is not actually that skill intensive. Basically you just follow the FC's commands.
If newbies simply had the SP, they could easily learn how to take part, and in doing so would gain much more awareness that they could use for small gang situations, or FCing themselves.
Hi.
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#71 - 2014-02-24 22:43:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Hasikan Miallok
TBH my main still flies frigate class ships more than anything else, and not just a Stiletto or Wolf, often things like Slashers and Probes. I have not checked but i suspect a new player could get into a covops cloaked Astero in under a month if they planned their skills well. Newbies are far to subject to size envy.

Note that new players DO get free SP to some extent, they get pre-trained with quite a bit of racial frigate and basic command skills from day zero.

HOWEVER, aside form anything else, if they really want a high SP character from the day they start playing, they can just go to the character bazaar and PLEX virtually anything all the way up to a Titan pilot.
Cassia Aetius
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#72 - 2014-02-27 13:46:09 UTC
Victor Andall wrote:
Cassia Aetius wrote:
Victor Andall wrote:
Then why do you talk like an entitled clueless noob?

No, really, I hate to contribute to the toxicity of the forums, but this is how I see it.

If a new player quits because he can't fly a Dominix during his first day we probably don't want him around anyway.



"We" as in CCP? I doubt CCP shares your thoughts, regardless of who people are, and how they play, players = money in the bank.



Unless I'm part of CCP and unaware of it then no. I did not mean that. Why would you even...



Then "we" really doesn't mean anything, what you meant to say was "I don't want those players in this game", which again, doesn't mean anything.
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#73 - 2014-02-27 14:30:36 UTC
I still consider myself relatively new but can fly BS if I choose, I just haven't bothered yet as I have had no need to do so. I much prefer the smaller ships which any new player can work up to in a month or two. Note the use of the phrase 'work up to', Eve is pretty much a game where you need to earn things you want.

The SP speed of acquisition is pretty much in line with the learning curve in terms of game skills in my opinion and giving new players anything for free simply devalues the work others put in to earn those things prior to that point.
Kane Fenris
NWP
#74 - 2014-02-27 14:41:29 UTC
Diamond Zerg wrote:
Hi.
I'd like to propose a change that I think would be very good for EVE and attract a lot of new players.

Give new accounts free SP.
One of the most common reasons newbies give up on EVE is that they see it will take 60+ days to fly an effective cruiser, and ragequit.
The problem only gets worse when you consider higher level ships, or training other races' skills.
Many prestigious corporations in EVE will require you to have a full T2 fit battleship, HAC, or even capital ship before they consider your application.

Add support skills into the mix (as a new player your drones do 20% less damage for example) and you have a really discouraging formula.

This IMO, as time goes by, will be EVE's biggest problem. New player retention.

And before you say it's the fault of the community, and that they don't support newbs— it simply isn't true.
Newbs are looked after very well by corporations like E-UNI and BNI.
The help channels actively answer new players' questions, usually in a quick and helpful fashion.

Before you object— this would not cause imbalance.
Having a bunch more t2 fit tier one cruisers in the game would make hardly any difference at all to the strategic landscape.
New players would still be hundreds of days away from the heavy hitting ships like Dreadnoughts and Carriers.
I'm not suggesting the training time for the top level stuff be reduced— having more titan pilots in EVE would not be a good thing.

I'm suggesting that new players should start the game with the skills to fully t2 fit a frigate and cruiser of their choice.
This would have minimal repercussions for veterans, and encourage a ton of new people to subscribe to the game.



you cant give players enough free skillpoints without open up to abuse.
what you can give away is every new pilot gets certain fixed skills already trained to basic lvls say 3 so he can pilot some basic ships and weapons right away. (depending on race)
i would suport that
Jureth22
EVE-RO
Goonswarm Federation
#75 - 2014-02-27 16:21:38 UTC
brinelan wrote:
Plenty of new players stick around and fly t1 frigates as they skill up, and there are plenty of corps that take newer players. I don't see a problem.


wrong.most new players want big ships with powerfull weapons.
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#76 - 2014-02-27 16:25:52 UTC
Diamond Zerg wrote:
Being part of big fleets is not actually that skill intensive. Basically you just follow the FC's commands.
If newbies simply had the SP, they could easily learn how to take part, and in doing so would gain much more awareness that they could use for small gang situations, or FCing themselves.


Your third sentence seems completely contradictory to your first two.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Dave Stark
#77 - 2014-02-27 17:00:51 UTC
yes, please make it easier for me to make 51 day gank alts.
Ice Dealer
Ice Dealer Corporation
#78 - 2014-02-27 17:16:03 UTC
What if instead of raw skill points that players new to eve could be confused with and waist, what if you had the tutorial hand out levels of the useful skills.
for example, what if you had a starter agent in gunnery that was "small arms 1/5" each of the missions upon completion gives you +1 level to small turret x or standard missile launcher depending on your race or what you choose? It would feel more like the agent was actually teaching you.

This also would help hinder alt creation taking advantage of free skill points. (If I got 1 m skillpoints I could have an instant cyno alt, pi alt, ect.)
However, a rookie learning PI should be given the skills quickly so they keep interest in the game and they can learn faster. Currently they have to "wait to learn" many aspects of the game. Most players in eve seem to be a smarter, more tech savy group of players, holding them back just frustrates.

I also understand that there are implant accelerators, but to a rookie they are still very slow. Even if this were to replace them, I feel the new player could thrive from this.

Just my 2 cents :)
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#79 - 2014-02-27 18:39:18 UTC
A player can learn any of the basic skills to lvl III within hours, I learnt the PI skills I use now within about 2 days. Skill training really isn't that slow and if a new player is running through the career agents they get the basic skillbooks anyway and train the skills whilst running the 'training' missions. If new players don't stay it isn't because of the training it is because the game doesn't suit them. give them 1 million SP up front and they would complain that they needed 2 million!
Dolorous Tremmens
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#80 - 2014-02-27 19:15:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Dolorous Tremmens
It should be spelled out to newbies that you must specialize first. Identify what you'd like to do in the game and focus on those skills so you can do what you want right away. What they do now is put you in a pod with hardpoints and shove you out an airlock.
Eva isn't trollish enough, a Gladdos approach of harassment and derision to get people to train a few core skills to 2 would work wonders.

Get some Eve. Make it yours.