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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Give new players free SP

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Agondray
Avenger Mercenaries
VOID Intergalactic Forces
#21 - 2014-02-24 13:04:31 UTC
Abernie wrote:
Maybe we could have $60 purchase that gives you lvl90. No wait, I mean 100m SP. No need to grind and you get everything instantly. It's perfect! \o/


$60? ive been robbed i say if they want to buy sp they have to buy it at a set rate of training. so you can train what? 1.2m or something like that a month. make that 1.2m cost $15. Btw new people had sp at one point where you started out at 800k sp, i believe it caused some revolts among the older community, so than they dropped it down to a training boost and from what i heard new people no longer get that training boost unless they get a implant now

"Sarcasm is the Recourse of a weak mind." -Dr. Smith
hardifice
#22 - 2014-02-24 13:04:57 UTC
This would remove value from T1 items as newer players wouldn't use them as a stepping stone to T2 when they get the training, and what would this mean, new player who has been grinding their account for 2-3 weeks to level skills, invite a friend and they are instantly ahead of them.

There are so many downsides, they've moved away from giving you lots of skill points to begin with and faster training times and I think it's for the better, the game has a progression speed that feels right.
Anny Jackson
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#23 - 2014-02-24 13:06:34 UTC
Aralyn Cormallen wrote:
The problem is it just bumps the problem down the road to the next hurdle. Sure, if we went with your idea, newbies can dodge frigates (which is a bad idea imo) and fly cruisers straight out the box, but then they are only looking at battlecruisers with the same envious eyes, then battleships, then capitals. If a player can't tolerate the structure of EvE, and resents the slow progression system, it wont matter how far down the road we start them off, all they will see is the road stretched ahead.

And besides, as Jack says above, the biggest rush and feeling of accomplishment in the early game is getting in to that next ship. My first Battlecruiser, my first (properly skilled, we wont talk about the true first) Battleship, my first Stealth Bomber, my first HAC, finally getting my Dreadnaught - these were defining moments. Thats something you don't want to rush, because it quickly becomes "one percent this, one percent that, oh I suppose I might as well pick up that T2 weapon system I don't need right now, perhaps another race of T2 cruisers just in case".


Yeah, pretty much this. Perfectly explained.
Charlie Firpol
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#24 - 2014-02-24 13:08:06 UTC
Diamond Zerg wrote:

Training for Battleship class weapons is a lot more fun when you can fly cruisers while training.


Training for cruiser weapons is way more fun when you can fly a frigate, too. The problem isn´t new players having not enough SPs, its people telling new players they cant do anything in cheap frigates.

All that would happen when a new guy could fly a T2 cruiser after his first 2 weeks is, they would get pissed that they lose 40mil ISK every time they die in a T2 fit cruiser.

So take those guys, show them how to properly fly and fit a cheap meta T1 fit frigate and how to make a difference. Train them to be fearless and as soon as they can fly (and afford) T2 cruisers, they will be a much bigger help for you than a clueless 1 week old noob that jumps instead of holding and then cries on TS that he is broke again.

The Butcher of Black Rise - eve-radio.com
Grunanca
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#25 - 2014-02-24 13:13:35 UTC
Jack Morrison wrote:
brinelan wrote:
Plenty of new players stick around and fly t1 frigates as they skill up, and there are plenty of corps that take newer players. I don't see a problem.


He just wants everything now......

Skilling for something new and finally getting it is both exciting and rewarding, something the veteran players don't have anymore, for them it is just 2% here and 1% there with taking skills to V.
Enjoy while it lasts, if you are really inpatient though, grind some isk in FW/incursions (little skills needed in FW) and buy a toon in the bazaar.

If you are however inpatient and lazy, then this game is definitely not for you - contract me your stuff and have fun elsewhere.


Exactely... You can at any time buy a char on the bazaar and making the isk to buy a 20 mil or so char is not hard if you have the knowledge to fly said ships. I once made a new char to farm FW. I trained him for a month for stealth bombers, then over the next month made 13.5 billion with 2-4 hours of "work" per day. So get started, dont get lazy! We have all been there!
Grunanca
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#26 - 2014-02-24 13:19:28 UTC
Diamond Zerg wrote:
What do you mean follow the rules of the forum?
This is an enlightening, well reasoned and constructive thread.

Bittervets wanting to stomp noobs is not an argument against giving new players free SP.

New accounts getting SP would only encourage a lot of new people to join.

Chribba wrote:
So let's say you instantly can be maxed a frigs from day one, now the play field is leveled for what, 6 months? a year? Then all those will be roaming in BC/BS doing havoc, would we need to up so that a one day pilot instantly can be maxed in a cruiser?

I think pilots become way better and more of a solid investment if they train into things rather than give them it from the start.

I think the retention of players is stronger with the slow process, but I don't have the numbers to claim it as a fact.

/c


What you're forgetting, Chribba is that progression is not linear.
Battleships and BCs are somewhat niche these days, cruisers are used all the time for general pvp.
The objectives is not to make newbs on the same level as vets, it's to give them a decent number of options to encourage them to keep playing.

Training for Battleship class weapons is a lot more fun when you can fly cruisers while training.



Lol what? BC and BS are a niche? I will politely join the crowd thinking you are a new player wanting it all.
Charlie Firpol
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#27 - 2014-02-24 13:28:25 UTC
Grunanca wrote:

Lol what? BC and BS are a niche? I will politely join the crowd thinking you are a new player wanting it all.


As long as he is talking about lowsec, he is right.

The Butcher of Black Rise - eve-radio.com
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#28 - 2014-02-24 13:37:39 UTC
Diamond Zerg wrote:
Hi.
I'd like to propose a change that I think would be very good for EVE and attract a lot of new players.

Give new accounts free SP.
One of the most common reasons newbies give up on EVE is that they see it will take 60+ days to fly an effective cruiser, and ragequit.
The problem only gets worse when you consider higher level ships, or training other races' skills.
Many prestigious corporations in EVE will require you to have a full T2 fit battleship, HAC, or even capital ship before they consider your application.

Add support skills into the mix (as a new player your drones do 20% less damage for example) and you have a really discouraging formula.

This IMO, as time goes by, will be EVE's biggest problem. New player retention.

And before you say it's the fault of the community, and that they don't support newbs— it simply isn't true.
Newbs are looked after very well by corporations like E-UNI and BNI.
The help channels actively answer new players' questions, usually in a quick and helpful fashion.

Before you object— this would not cause imbalance.
Having a bunch more t2 fit tier one cruisers in the game would make hardly any difference at all to the strategic landscape.
New players would still be hundreds of days away from the heavy hitting ships like Dreadnoughts and Carriers.
I'm not suggesting the training time for the top level stuff be reduced— having more titan pilots in EVE would not be a good thing.

I'm suggesting that new players should start the game with the skills to fully t2 fit a frigate and cruiser of their choice.
This would have minimal repercussions for veterans, and encourage a ton of new people to subscribe to the game.



The ganking community welcomes your message of support.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#29 - 2014-02-24 13:50:38 UTC
Diamond Zerg wrote:
One of the most common reasons newbies give up on EVE is that they see it will take 60+ days to fly an effective cruiser, and ragequit.
Do you have anything to actually support this claim?
Also, why is it a problem even if they do?

Quote:
I'm suggesting that new players should start the game with the skills to fully t2 fit a frigate and cruiser of their choice.
This would have minimal repercussions for veterans, and encourage a ton of new people to subscribe to the game.
What is that supposed to solve? The new players will fall into one of two camps: those that don't know enough of the game to spend their SP wisely and end up with the same capability as they have now, but with much more expensive clones and a bunch of haphazardly arranged useless skills, and those who don't know enough about the game to keep themselves equipped with the ships and modules they've been given access to.

Do you also suggest that new players should start with 200M ISK to cover their first 10 ship and pod losses? What then? How will they pay for the 11th?

Oh, and I will definitely say that it's the fault of the community: they're the ones telling the newbies such nonsense as that it takes 60+ days to fly an effective cruiser, or that this is something the newbies should hurry towards. Instead, we should support them by teaching them how much they can do with surprisingly little, and what they can do to support their increasingly expensive lifestyles.
Seraph Essael
Air
The Initiative.
#30 - 2014-02-24 13:57:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Seraph Essael
I'm still under a year old. There are plently of ships that I can't fly yet. In fact, I can't fly anything bigger than a Caldari BC yet.

Am I fed up with flying Frigs, Cruisers and BC's? No.
Am I happy to be skilling up my support skills still and training for T2 and T3 ships whilst having decent core, defensive and offensive skills? Hells yes.

I find a sense of accomplishment within the game when a 20-30 day skill queue has finished. I find that having all those skills there means we can have goals, have something to aim for. The game doesn't get tedious for me because I am skilling for something I want. Then I look at all the skills that will help me with what I want and train them.

Obviously this is only my opinion. But there are far too many people that want instant gratification in a game. Aka be able to level up to top level in the first weekend of playing and be on par with players that have been playing years.

Once a skill is at V, its at the same level as that of the five/six year vets that kill you. If a new player can't accept that they wont be as good as the vets because they are new, then they arent right for this game. They will be the same people that complain they go into lowsec and get blown up when they don't consent to it.

Take time to go down the NC Q&A sub forum, there are plenty of new players in there that are actually pretty sound and willing to learn, and very few are whining that their SP restricts then. The people who do whine, well they've usually already cancelled their accounts and can't be spoken to because of their sence of entitlement.

Quoted from Doc Fury: "Concerned citizens: Doc seldom plays EVE on the weekends during spring and summer, so you will always be on your own for a couple days a week. Doc spends that time collecting kittens for the on-going sacrifices, engaging in reckless outdoor activities, and speaking in the 3rd person."
Cassia Aetius
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#31 - 2014-02-24 14:50:17 UTC
Victor Andall wrote:
Then why do you talk like an entitled clueless noob?

No, really, I hate to contribute to the toxicity of the forums, but this is how I see it.

If a new player quits because he can't fly a Dominix during his first day we probably don't want him around anyway.



"We" as in CCP? I doubt CCP shares your thoughts, regardless of who people are, and how they play, players = money in the bank.
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#32 - 2014-02-24 15:05:25 UTC
Diamond Zerg wrote:

One of the most common reasons newbies give up on EVE is that they see it will take 60+ days to fly an effective cruiser, and ragequit.


So f-ing what? If you give new players more it won't stop them from doing something stupid and getting blown up, in fact, likely the opposite.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Charlie Firpol
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#33 - 2014-02-24 15:23:29 UTC
Cassia Aetius wrote:
Victor Andall wrote:
Then why do you talk like an entitled clueless noob?

No, really, I hate to contribute to the toxicity of the forums, but this is how I see it.

If a new player quits because he can't fly a Dominix during his first day we probably don't want him around anyway.



"We" as in CCP? I doubt CCP shares your thoughts, regardless of who people are, and how they play, players = money in the bank.



CCP definately wants more new guys to stay and pay but they know that you need to get those new guys involved to make them stay. Free shineys wont hold them. A good corp will, though.

The Butcher of Black Rise - eve-radio.com
Ammzi
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#34 - 2014-02-24 15:44:14 UTC
Diamond Zerg wrote:
Yeah, but plenty also quit.


Good. Those are the ones being filtered out efficiently.
I mean, what. You want to drink water, but the only source of water is your toilet water filled with **** and little **** nuggets.
So you use a filter and clean it out.

But by all means man, if you want to eat the nuggets go for it.
Grunanca
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#35 - 2014-02-24 15:51:35 UTC
Charlie Firpol wrote:
Grunanca wrote:

Lol what? BC and BS are a niche? I will politely join the crowd thinking you are a new player wanting it all.


As long as he is talking about lowsec, he is right.


Erhm no? I live in low sec too... Looked up my own stats and found my top 3 in killtypes for the last few months:

Battleships killed 129
Battlecruisers killed 103
Cruisers killed 89

My alliance tends to fight a lot of different places in low sec, so would say my stats cover low sec pretty well.
Alice Ituin
Doomheim
#36 - 2014-02-24 15:55:27 UTC
Batelle wrote:
Diamond Zerg wrote:

One of the most common reasons newbies give up on EVE is that they see it will take 60+ days to fly an effective cruiser, and ragequit.


So f-ing what? If you give new players more it won't stop them from doing something stupid and getting blown up, in fact, likely the opposite.


That has nothing to do with them being new players.
Just last week I saw 5 year old character shooting belt rats with a pirate BS that had medium guns on it .
You can gain experience with time, but the stupid generally stay stupid.
Caviar Liberta
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#37 - 2014-02-24 16:06:30 UTC
Stonten wrote:
Diamond Zerg wrote:
Yeah, but plenty also quit.

I'm guessing you weren't around for the learning skills?


There was also a time when you started out with 1.5m sp (or some where around that number).
Zakarumit CZ
Zakarum Industries
Forgers United
#38 - 2014-02-24 16:11:19 UTC
OP should ragequit, that would be really good for EVE.
Xylem Viliana
homeless bum
#39 - 2014-02-24 16:11:46 UTC
Give new players a cookie instead.

Then laugh at them for taking it with them.



Seriously though, if new players want to come in an instantly be able to do what a 6 month subbed character can do there is a way for that to happen, buy plex with RL money, sell plex on market buy a character from the bazaar. Simple.

EVE is designed in such a way as to weed out people that cant handle the game or lack patience or whatever. Look at WoW, you can now buy a level booster to 90. That game is designed to be mainstream and appeal to the masses. EVE's player base is different and I for one am happy with it as it is, Over the years I have trained many characters from scratch, part of the appeal is planning what i want that character to do and molding it.

If CCP turned around and suddenly all new players had 6months - a years worth of SP under their belts it would not help the game IMO, in fact I think it could do more damage as older players get annoyed with CCP's actions and the new players whom this change would benefit once they discover that actually eves skill progression is slower than they expected it to be.
Alice Ituin
Doomheim
#40 - 2014-02-24 16:13:49 UTC
Grunanca wrote:


Erhm no? I live in low sec too... Looked up my own stats and found my top 3 in killtypes for the last few months:

Battleships killed 129
Battlecruisers killed 103
Cruisers killed 89

My alliance tends to fight a lot of different places in low sec, so would say my stats cover low sec pretty well.

The only place I see you guys in low sec is either near a titan or a cyno. Shouldn't be really surprising that you mostly catch slow moving battleships.
The average low sec population however travels by gate, in which case BS are incredibly impractical.