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Why are many people on these forums so negative, and so hostile?

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Author
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#141 - 2014-02-26 19:31:30 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Mandarine wrote:



Well, to put it bluntly, it seems that you get high on people´s suffering, as demonstrated by your choices of walks of life. Law-related activities are a prime field to witness strangers in disarray, and possibly do them in. The military is pretty self-explanatory.

There are quite a few sadists in the health professions, especially amongst nurses who take care of the elderly. Maybe their sadism is a result of having to wash old people´s butts on a daily basis, but I´d say the seed of it was in them already.


I personally think people like you have no place in an online game, since games are made to play pretend, and suppose the pursuit of ingame goals, as opposed to RL ones.

There is a huge glaring problem when a certain category of players use an online game as a platform to reap Schadenfreude, and care more about the RL reaction of some absolutely unknown random Joe whom they have had no business of any kind with, than the ingame benefit they get from scamming/ganking/whatevering him. You say you do it for the ISK first, but after a few paragraphs of self-introspection, you write


The op asks "why are many people on these forums so negative". The above quoted outrageous BS is the best answer antyone could give. It not only shows it's author egotistically claiming superiority of others involved in the same gaming activity he is, it actually disparages millions of real life Law, Law Enforcement, Military and Healthcare worker, almost all of whom most likely contribute way more to the actual well being humanity way more than the author ever could.

It's may well be an example of bad people not being able to see themselves as bad but rather imagining that it's others who are the problem. You simply have to be a real, honest to God bad person to write something like the above quoted BS.

Seems to me to be a massive case of projection ie the best psychological defense a truly rotten person has is to ima other people rotten.


To be fair, bad people don't see themselves as bad. I doubt Hitler (censorship is bad - Chancellor of Germany in the 30s and 40s) ever stopped and thought, "Would it be bad if I really kill all these people?"

Dahmer likely didn't spend a lot of time considering the ethics of his actions.

Maybe we're all bad people. We just defend out badness in the same way as the author you are quoting.

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!

Mandarine
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#142 - 2014-02-26 19:42:48 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:

It's may well be an example of bad people not being able to see themselves as bad but rather imagining that it's others who are the problem. You simply have to be a real, honest to God bad person to write something like the above quoted BS.

Seems to me to be a massive case of projection ie the best psychological defense a truly rotten person has is to ima other people rotten.


What can I say Mrs Genocide, it´s so cool, it´s so good to be bad!
Gyromite
AWE Corporation
Intrepid Crossing
#143 - 2014-02-26 19:43:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Gyromite
Mandarine wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Ingame, I will cheat, steal, lie, exploit, manipulate, kill and altogether take advantage of every opportunity I can to primarily earn ISK, and secondarily to cause loss to other players deliberately and intentionally (even of there is no profit in it, but mostly if there is). I understand, appreciate and practice loyalty as well as teamwork when it supports my own interests or is otherwise ofnmotivation to me.

Offline I am a 33yr old (bday today) nursing student with the history of a short military tenure, and dropping out of first legal studies and then psychology. Im glad to have found my "true calling" at last and its the best thing to ever have happened to me aside from my family. It would be, and is, completely unconscionable to me to ever act IRL as I do ingame. Both professionally as a nurse towards my patients and colleagues, as well as otherwise in my private life towards other people. I have a very strict and complex moral system that has taken me years to distinguish and for which I make sacrifices, because it is what I believe is right and its the person I want to be.I dont hold other people to, or expect them, to share my moral views. Those are their own business ans their own prerogative to define. And even if they are at odds with my own, I respect them for what they are, as they spring from the same source as my own do. From personal choice and autonomy. And most importantly, from responsibility

...

Upon introspection, the real reason why I do so, is a mix of sadism and showing that I am better than others.. The vicarious pleasure of extending my reach and negatively affecting another human players existence. Their tears are my joy and giddy pleasure. That is the cherry on the cake, after the original rush of competition and conflict where they try to protect what is theirs against my deliberate action to deprive them of it, or, in my own adrenaline rushed attempt to defend myself in from their attempt to do the same to me.

....

Summa summarum: These are my introspections on my personal moral dichotomy (and dilemma) between behavior as who I really, mundanely, am, in my day to day professional and private life (Im not kidding about any of that) and how I behave in this game. Before anyone starts shouting "SOCIOPATH" , I ask and recommend that you seriously, deeply, question yourself about your own behavior, why you do it, and how you reconcile that difference (if there is any) to your own honest self.



Well, to put it bluntly, it seems that you get high on people´s suffering, as demonstrated by your choices of walks of life. Law-related activities are a prime field to witness strangers in disarray, and possibly do them in. The military is pretty self-explanatory.

There are quite a few sadists in the health professions, especially amongst nurses who take care of the elderly. Maybe their sadism is a result of having to wash old people´s butts on a daily basis, but I´d say the seed of it was in them already.

I personally think people like you have no place in an online game, since games are made to play pretend, and suppose the pursuit of ingame goals, as opposed to RL ones.

There is a huge glaring problem when a certain category of players use an online game as a platform to reap Schadenfreude, and care more about the RL reaction of some absolutely unknown random Joe whom they have had no business of any kind with, than the ingame benefit they get from scamming/ganking/whatevering him. You say you do it for the ISK first, but after a few paragraphs of self-introspection, you write

Salvos Rhoska wrote:
What I am REALLY looking for, is a reaction that shows I reached out and touched you



Schadenfreude-oriented gankers are a blight on online videogaming, since they will look for every little flaw or borderline exploit to get an advantage over other players, and this forces devs to plug holes that could have been left open for reasonable and fun-loving players to "exploit". In the same order of idea, CONCORD is there because of gankers. If those players were screened and banned, there would be no need for an all-powerful space police, players would police themselves and have fun doing, some play pretending pirates, some play pretending police, etc...
The foundation for a sound gaming community is players who assess that the collection of pixels they interact with is controlled by other fellow gamers, and the common sense that springs from this: don´t be a jerk.

Ultima Online was trammelized because of camping gankers. This sharded the sandbox, and forced devs to impose hardcoded limits on PvP. I believe the age of anonymity on the internet will come to an end in the future, once too many schoolgirls have committed suicide because of anonymous trolls trolling them.

All the cop-outs stating that RL and internet activities are de-coupled are just, well, cop-outs. Ethics, in an open sandboxy environment (that is, not Counter-Strike or Battlefield) are context irrelevant.

And, "it´s a game". Well, start behaving like it´s one, instead of having a hard-on for ingame actions that will purposefully make other players rage IRL.


Wow way to over analyze, instead of telling other people not to take the game so seriously maybe you should take your own advice and play pretend on Animal Crossing.
People like you are fun to scam/gank/grief. You should tell me your mains' name.

edit: oh and the post above me is 110% true also, you should read that again.
Eternum Praetorian
Doomheim
#144 - 2014-02-26 19:45:21 UTC
Just as a genuinely stupid person will lack the cognitive ability to understand the scope of how truly stupid they really are, equally so, a person with a below average moral fiber will have no way to gauge his own crapulence.

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Eternum Praetorian
Doomheim
#145 - 2014-02-26 19:47:51 UTC
Gyromite wrote:

People like you are fun to scam/gank/grief. You should tell me your mains' name.


This is my main. It always has been and it always will be. So what now tough guy?

[center]The EVE Gateway Blog[/center] [center]One Of EVE Online's Ultimate Resources[/center]

Oblivion King
Doomheim
#146 - 2014-02-26 19:48:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Oblivion King
Mandarine wrote:
I never understood why Lofty29 wasn´t IP permaba...


googled expecting some inhumane prank devoid of morality
found a guy using his wits to gank others

seriously
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#147 - 2014-02-26 19:51:28 UTC
I have actually stood in queue at the bank and thought to myself, "I could break this guy in front of me's neck before he even knew what the hell was going on..."

I don't of course because that would be bad and truthfully, I don't think that it has anything to do with legality. I also don't not do it because of any thoughts about "maybe this yutz has a family that will miss him" or "he doesn't deserve it". I don't know, I just think about it and then dismiss the thought as quickly as it entered my mind.

Am I a bad person?

Man, I hope I'm not a bad person. I don't think anyone actually wants to be a bad person.

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!

Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#148 - 2014-02-26 19:55:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Mandarine wrote:
And, "it´s a game". Well, start behaving like it´s one
Take your own advice.
Quote:
instead of having a hard-on for ingame actions that will purposefully make other players rage IRL.
If person A rages in real life because person B deprived them of their imaginary spaceship I'd say that person A is the one with the problem.

Don't get mad, get even. It's what Eve is all about.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Salvos Rhoska
#149 - 2014-02-26 20:00:48 UTC
Kimmi Chan wrote:
Man, I hope I'm not a bad person. I don't think anyone actually wants to be a bad person.


I think there is a lot of important stuff in this simple sentiment.

My perspective is that we are all "bad people", but we aspire to be "better" than that.
All of us could do absolutely unthinkable destruction to everything around us, completely sporadically and without warning.
But we don't. Why? Because we choose not to. Why? Because there are qualities we value and wish to uphold in ourselves.
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#150 - 2014-02-26 20:04:05 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Mandarine wrote:
And, "it´s a game". Well, start behaving like it´s one
Take your own advice.
Quote:
instead of having a hard-on for ingame actions that will purposefully make other players rage IRL.
If person A rages in real life because person B deprived them of their imaginary spaceship I'd say that person A is the one with the problem.

Don't get mad, get even. It's what Eve is all about.


I agree. I think this discussion is one of causality.

Gankers were around before tears is my bet.

In the way back days, gankers acted to pad their killboads, make a profit, that kind of thing.

Then one day, one guy that got ganked sent a very emotional response to a ganker that had just made his ship explode, filled with vitriol, real life threats, profanity, and all manner of other things one could define as bad.

In short, Tears very, very rarely cause ganking. Ganking can but does not have to cause tears.

How one responds to getting exploded is up to the person being exploded and not to the person that is doing the exploding.

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!

Qalix
Long Jump.
#151 - 2014-02-26 20:06:40 UTC
Why is OP so negative about negativity? Why is he so hostile to hostility?
Divine Entervention
Doomheim
#152 - 2014-02-26 20:25:48 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Kimmi Chan wrote:
Man, I hope I'm not a bad person. I don't think anyone actually wants to be a bad person.


I think there is a lot of important stuff in this simple sentiment.

My perspective is that we are all "bad people", but we aspire to be "better" than that.
All of us could do absolutely unthinkable destruction to everything around us, completely sporadically and without warning.
But we don't. Why? Because we choose not to. Why? Because there are qualities we value and wish to uphold in ourselves.


I agree. I could at any point in time try to concoct a scheme where I outsmart a fellow human being and rob him of his hopes, faith in humanity, isk, and time invested. Any one could, potentially. Try to outsmart someone at their expense for my personal amusement, so I can feel smarter than them.

But why? I don't feel I need to. I'm already secure enough in myself that I don't feel I need to act in a way that could very well contribute to one's outlook on the harshness of humanity. There are already enough bad people trying to turn this swimming pool brown. I'd rather contribute towards making it clear again.

Just as I could easily scam a guy in eve for isk, I could just as easily lift an old man's wallet and take everything he owns. Are they exactly the same? No. Are they similar? Yes. Similar in the regard that they're both actions aimed at benefiting one at the expense of the other.

I wish to be a better person. I understand any and all of us are capable of choosing to do bad things at any time. Because I know this choice exists, I choose to be good. I choose to be nice to others and try not to impede them as much as possible, within a reasonable scope.

I value good in myself and in others. I despise bad in myself and want to make myself better, and I despise people who do bad with no desire to better themselves.
Salvos Rhoska
#153 - 2014-02-26 20:29:38 UTC
Mandarine wrote:
My moral conduct IRL and ingame is very similar, sorry about that, there´s not much more to tell about it.


Mandarine wrote:
I´ve been playing since 2003 (this is an alt, of course), and always wanted to be a space vigilante. Surprise surprise, it´s the only profession in EvE that is absolutely pointless: The "lawful" or rather, play-pretending pirates are very rare, and they are not the ones being jerks in New Eden. Gankers and scammers cannot be curbed, because of multiple accounts: you can´t hurt their wallet.


Would you describe your IRL morality and behavior as being consistent with that of an IRL vigilante?

If not, you may find you need to introspect and analyse yourself in regards to the first quote.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#154 - 2014-02-26 20:32:34 UTC
Divine Entervention wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Kimmi Chan wrote:
Man, I hope I'm not a bad person. I don't think anyone actually wants to be a bad person.


I think there is a lot of important stuff in this simple sentiment.

My perspective is that we are all "bad people", but we aspire to be "better" than that.
All of us could do absolutely unthinkable destruction to everything around us, completely sporadically and without warning.
But we don't. Why? Because we choose not to. Why? Because there are qualities we value and wish to uphold in ourselves.


I agree. I could at any point in time try to concoct a scheme where I outsmart a fellow human being and rob him of his hopes, faith in humanity, isk, and time invested. Any one could, potentially. Try to outsmart someone at their expense for my personal amusement, so I can feel smarter than them.

But why? I don't feel I need to. I'm already secure enough in myself that I don't feel I need to act in a way that could very well contribute to one's outlook on the harshness of humanity. There are already enough bad people trying to turn this swimming pool brown. I'd rather contribute towards making it clear again.

Just as I could easily scam a guy in eve for isk, I could just as easily lift an old man's wallet and take everything he owns. Are they exactly the same? No. Are they similar? Yes. Similar in the regard that they're both actions aimed at benefiting one at the expense of the other.

I wish to be a better person. I understand any and all of us are capable of choosing to do bad things at any time. Because I know this choice exists, I choose to be good. I choose to be nice to others and try not to impede them as much as possible, within a reasonable scope.

I value good in myself and in others. I despise bad in myself and want to make myself better, and I despise people who do bad with no desire to better themselves.


And what we've been telling you is that none of that has anything to do with EVE. If you scam someone (an activity that is legal in EVE Online) and that leads them to take a dimmer view of humanity, they should not have been playing EVE in the 1st place. You are not responsible for their poor choice of game to play.

It's the same as if you played poker with someone, beat them with a Queen High Straight Flush and that person now takes a dim view of women because most Queens are female........

You need to learn how to separate in game from out of game. NOTHING you do in game marks you as a better person than anyone else. It's what you do in real life that matters.
Anhenka
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#155 - 2014-02-26 20:37:06 UTC
Divine Entervention wrote:
Grandiose highfalutin speech on his moral superiority to the inferior subhuman that surround him.


C'est moi, c'est moi, tis I.

Honestly, you fit the role perfectly. It's amazing. I'm even reading your posts in his voice the resemblance is so strong.

Which is probably far more of a vocal complement than you deserve, cause Rober Goulet absolutely pinned that role.


Mandarine
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#156 - 2014-02-26 20:38:48 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:

Don't get mad, get even. It's what Eve is all about.


That is absolutely impossible when ganking characters are absolutely unrelated to ISK-making characters used by the player.

Gankers aren´t dumb, they know how to harvest tears, and therefore, how to not be in a position to provide them.


Salvos Rhoska wrote:

Would you describe your IRL morality and behavior as being consistent with that of an IRL vigilante?

If not, you may find you need to introspect and analyse yourself in regards to the first quote.


I´m not a vigilante ingame. This profession is impossible to pursue, as you can´t curb gankers, since you cannot hit their wallets, which are on other characters.

IRL, I don´t accept when people fling **** at each other for no reason and I do step in.


*Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal.
Tesco Ergo Sum
#157 - 2014-02-26 20:42:31 UTC
Oh dear, they're doing it again...

What is even worse is they don't even realise and/or can't control themselves.

Back on topic:

I find these forums are negative and hostile because posters simply want to attack each other rather than deal with the topic at hand. Not that we've had any examples of this recently so I'm presenting a pure theory with no substance at all...

Not that this last statement in any way reflects any of the posts since the cleanup.

To the person who has genuinely fresh, new and relevant ideas - I pity you Sad
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#158 - 2014-02-26 20:48:39 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
Mandarine wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:

Don't get mad, get even. It's what Eve is all about.


That is absolutely impossible when ganking characters are absolutely unrelated to ISK-making characters used by the player.

Gankers aren´t dumb, they know how to harvest tears, and therefore, how to not be in a position to provide them.
You're wrong, to get even requires effort, and sometimes deceit. Infiltrate the ganking corps, shoot at their stuff while in their corp. You may not get any tears, but you will certainly be able to inflict damage upon them.

Oh wait you won't do any of those things, because it offends your real life morality, despite the fact that you're playing a game that is immoral by nature.

*Snip* Removed reply to an edited out part of the quoted post. ISD Ezwal.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Anhenka
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#159 - 2014-02-26 20:50:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Anhenka
Tesco Ergo Sum wrote:


To the person who has genuinely fresh, new and relevant ideas - I pity you Sad


They actually get treated fairly well.

Anyone who

A: makes sure to do a search to make sure the topic has not been brought up 10,000x before. And
B: Phrases their suggestion in a way that does not say that anyone who disagrees is bad and feedback is forbidden.

Actually gets treated to a fairly civil discussion about their topic unless they start being super belligerent about "No it's perfect, no alterations or compromise accepted"

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=305675&find=unread

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=325297&find=unread

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=324369&find=unread

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=325273&find=unread

Are all civil discussion about proposed ideas, even if people are ambivalent or against them. And that's just a quick 10 second scoop of threads on the first page.

It's fairly simple. Understand that peer review is not peer confirmation, and everyone gets along perfectly fine.
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#160 - 2014-02-26 20:56:59 UTC
So wait, Bruce Wayne plays Eve?

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!