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Why are many people on these forums so negative, and so hostile?

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Marsha Mallow
#421 - 2014-02-27 19:03:43 UTC
Divine Entervention wrote:
if I'm in high sec mining and a guy chooses to want to blow up my venture, well I get to think he's loathsome for imposing his desire to kill me when I obviously wanted safety upon me. If he wanted to PvP he would find someone in low sec or null who is also looking for pvp. Instead, he made the choice to prey upon the weak and defenseless. he didn't have to, he made that choice.

Because he made that choice, I'm allowed to classify him as someone who makes that choice. He chooses to be a despicable person. He imposes his desires onto others, in this instance on me in particular for his own benefit with no regard to my feelings. That's a disrespectful act and it defines the person.

Now I don't want that option removed from the game. I enjoy the potential. But on the other side of the coin, I'm still going to label him as a person who is untrustworthy. Because he's shown me he is capable of putting his own feelings ahead of everyone elses regardless of the expense inflicted upon them.


Mandarine wrote:

There is a huge gaping difference between what the common gaming sense describes as PvP (somewhat consensual, somewhat balanced engagements), and ganks/griefs, where all manners of imbalances and non-consensuality are sought, for the express purpose of making the gankees mad and read/hear them rage.

That quite a few pvpers despise gankers and griefers should also hint at the fact that the actions of the latter do not fall within the magic circle, since they develop glee by witnessing their own selves (i:e. not their character) being the cause of the RL distress of some unknown Joe, which they have created by using a video game as a platform, not as means in itself, which would entail trying to create a narrative that would be fun for all.

Because, once again, games are more fun when everybody has at least some fun, just like parties or sexual intercourse.

It's not a single player game. There is no "minding my own business" mode. There are no non-combat ships (battlebadger ftw) - even Jump Freighters can be used as bait. There aren't defencelss players, usually just ignorant ones. You are willingly engaging in economic PVP when you mine. We are willingly engaged with PVP in all forms, everywhere. The defence against gankers and griefing is typically to engage brain and play in specific ways with other people. If you can't and won't, welcome to the forums where you can flail about impotently demanding sympathy from the very people likely to shoot you in the face.

ps. speak for yourself re sex Mandarine. Some of us are more than happy to be the only one having fun.

Ripard Teg > For the morons in the room:

Sweets > U can dd my face any day
Victoria Thorne
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#422 - 2014-02-27 19:04:39 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Victoria Thorne wrote:
I don't think it's stealthy at all.

Alternatively, it might be someone trying to set some sort of strange (bad) posting record.


+1 to this. It's not stealthy at all. He's getting his personal enjoyment out of this. No more, no less.

Troll has become a hackneyed term now, but IMHO, we actually have one here at the moment. Feeding is bad, but sometimes it just has to be done.


My vote is to let Tippia deal with it.

I've always suspected that she is either an advanced AI created specifically to troll trolling attempts, or that she sprung, like Athena, fully formed from the forehead of the God of Cynicism & Patience.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#423 - 2014-02-27 19:06:41 UTC
Erica Dusette wrote:


Although after going over the same posts you mention, and having a couple private convos with him, I'm not sure he actually realises he's being the very same kind of troll he preaches against.


Not going to derail too much on the guy (lol, like this thread isn't derailed), but i get the same feeling. There is an wiff of being divorced from reality in his posts. And others things I can't quite put my finger on lol.
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#424 - 2014-02-27 19:07:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
Victoria Thorne wrote:
My vote is to let Tippia deal with it.

I've always suspected that she is either an advanced AI created specifically to troll trolling attempts, or that she sprung, like Athena, fully formed from the forehead of the God of Cynicism & Patience.


Big smile good suggestion.

It would be great if a DEV or GM dealt with it once and for all.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#425 - 2014-02-27 19:11:07 UTC
Divine Entervention wrote:
Griefing may be allowed, but so too is the right to label griefers as people not worth associating with.
It's not allowed. You know that, right?

Victoria Thorne wrote:
My vote is to let Tippia deal with it.
You are a horrible person. Cry
Divine Entervention
Doomheim
#426 - 2014-02-27 19:12:47 UTC
It's totally hilarious that the people arguing their actions are not a representation of themselves are the ones talking about a disconnect from reality.

You're completely backwards
Mag's
Azn Empire
#427 - 2014-02-27 19:13:03 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Victoria Thorne wrote:
My vote is to let Tippia deal with it.
You are a horrible person. Cry
You've already beaten him, but it was fun to watch all the same.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#428 - 2014-02-27 19:15:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Divine Entervention wrote:
I don't drink. I agree lots of alcohol is bad. I use to drink like 7 years ago, not alot, but still enough to realize I don't enjoy it.

Maybe it's your truth, but you being a person who condones and supports people acting like dicks to each other is proof that your goal is to upset others, removing validity from your statements and classifying you as a person unworthy of having their opinion respected.
While I disagree with Krixtal on a number of things, I can safely say that he's overall a pretty nice guy, he accepts Eve for what it is, and plays despite that.

Quote:
Griefing may be allowed, but so too is the right to label griefers as people not worth associating with.
What you call griefing is normal game play, as condoned by CCP. As such we're allowed to call you a fool for labeling people indulging in normal game play as "bad people", as well as believing that people who blow you up and steal your stuff, in a game about blowing people up and stealing their stuff, would do the same in real life.

You're suffering from a reality disconnect, Eve is not reality, and reality is not Eve.

Quote:
You think I didn't know you were trying to play me? High opinion of yourself much I see.
Once again, pot meet kettle.

Hypocrite much?

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Erica Dusette
Division 13
#429 - 2014-02-27 19:16:13 UTC
Divine Entervention wrote:
Erica Dusette wrote:
Quote:
But I'm gonna say this anyways: Seeing these posts and posts in other forum sections, anyone else think this is some kind of massive stealthy troll?

There's absolutely no doubt that all the majority of his posts equal is trolling, quite heavily.

Although after going over the same posts you mention, and having a couple private convos with him, I'm not sure he actually realises he's being the very same kind of troll he preaches against.

But then again he does advertise his self-proclaimed forum-awesomeness a little overtly, which then makes me second guess whether he means to troll or not.

Who knows. All I know is that he's not debating things to reach a consensus or conclusion - he's simply arguing for arguments sake, either to troll others or as an outlet for his own issues somehow. Hence I won't waste too much of my own time riding his self-indulgent ferris wheel. Roll


You think I didn't know you were trying to play me? High opinion of yourself much I see.

How do you mean "play you"?

When I sent you a couple PMS earlier in the week it was to offer some very genuine, friendly insight into EVE's community. You were obviously very passionate about what you were posting, as skewed as I found your views, and I thought I could help out.

All I got in reply was arrogant claims of your own awesomeness, sent so quickly that it was obvious you hadn't even fully read the messages I took the time to write you.

Likewise when I convo'd you it was just to have a friendly chat, see where you were at in your EVE career and how things were going. It was a decent, but short conversation. I do admit though that the paranoia you displayed regarding my convo and asking you if your corp does organized Plex fleets left me a little gob-smacked lol

I'm guessing you find the environment here rather intimidating and you're still trying to find your place and your feet. This whole forum-trolling episode of yours is either your way of dealing with that, asserting yourself, or simply for pure ***** and giggles. I couldn't say which, only you'd know for sure.

Sorry if you feel somehow cheated. But maybe if you cut back on the ****-posting a little and open yourself up to enjoying the game and people in it you'll find there's some genuinely nice folks like me who try to share it with you.

Jack Miton > you be nice or you're sleeping on the couch again!

Part-Time Wormhole Pirate ツ Full-Time Supermodel

▷ worмнole dιary + cнaracтer вιoѕ ▷ вσss
Ai Shun
#430 - 2014-02-27 19:17:32 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:
It would be great if a DEV or GM dealt with it once and for all.


Or, you know, put him on Ignore. That way you don't see his posts (unless others quote him) and once people stop talking to him he'll be alone in his echo chamber, just as he wants to be. Be humane. Give him what he wants.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#431 - 2014-02-27 19:18:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Divine Entervention wrote:
It's totally hilarious that the people arguing their actions are not a representation of themselves are the ones talking about a disconnect from reality.
Since the actions are in-game and since there is no way to transpose those actions into any kind of remotely reliable information about the person, it's pretty healthy to be able to make that distinction. The inability to do so is very regarded as some kind of pathological cognitive disconnect.

Quote:
You're completely backwards
No. Just aware of the fact that it's a game and that it and reality are separate contexts.
Divine Entervention
Doomheim
#432 - 2014-02-27 19:19:21 UTC
Mag's wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Victoria Thorne wrote:
My vote is to let Tippia deal with it.
You are a horrible person. Cry
You've already beaten him, but it was fun to watch all the same.


There's no point talking to him. He wont acknowledge the basic idea that it's the people at their keyboards making the choices.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#433 - 2014-02-27 19:19:51 UTC
Erica Dusette wrote:

How do you mean "play you"?

When I sent you a couple PMS earlier in the week it was to offer some very genuine, friendly insight into EVE's community. You were obviously very passionate about what you were posting, as skewed as I found your views, and I thought I could help out.

All I got in reply was arrogant claims of your own awesomeness, sent so quickly that it was obvious you hadn't even fully read the messages I took the time to write you.

Likewise when I convo'd you it was just to have a friendly chat, see where you were at in your EVE career and how things were going. It was a decent, but short conversation. I do admit though that the paranoia you displayed regarding my convo and asking you if your corp does organized Plex fleets left me a little gob-smacked lol

I'm guessing you find the environment here rather intimidating and you're still trying to find your place and your feet. This whole forum-trolling episode of yours is either your way of dealing with that, asserting yourself, or simply for pure ***** and giggles. I couldn't say which, only you'd know for sure.

Sorry if you feel somehow cheated. But maybe if you cut back on the ****-posting a little and open yourself up to enjoying the game and people in it you'll find there's some genuinely nice folks like me who try to share it with you.


Click here, scroll down to the list, read 1., 3, and 5.

Then do like i did and start shivering.....
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#434 - 2014-02-27 19:19:55 UTC
Ai Shun wrote:
Scipio Artelius wrote:
It would be great if a DEV or GM dealt with it once and for all.


Or, you know, put him on Ignore. That way you don't see his posts (unless others quote him) and once people stop talking to him he'll be alone in his echo chamber, just as he wants to be. Be humane. Give him what he wants.
Eve Offline is probably more to his taste than Eve Online.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Mandarine
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#435 - 2014-02-27 19:20:02 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
]As you say UO was trammelised which imposed hardcoded restrictions on PvP, did that make UO more successful? In the short term yes, in the long term it effectively killed the game. We don't want that to happen to Eve, neither do the devs. As I said earlier early CCP devs came from UO, a pre-trammel UO.

As for CCP being happy with 70-80K online at any one time? I'm sure they'd be happy with that, it's nearly double current figures.

The server that CCP are using is already one of the most powerful gaming servers out there, IIRC some of the kit is so cutting edge that CCP are the only group using it. A million concurrent users is a pipe dream, no other game manages it without sharding, and Eve is very much a single shard game, which is part of its appeal.


The devs made the mistake of listening to the people that failed to understand that UO was originally an open PvP world, that'd be people like you


Bollocks, you're now talking out of your arse, the problem is with people that come to a game and refuse to adapt to its environment. I don't go to HKO and ask for open world PvP to be implemented, because HKO isn't that type of game, why do people come to Eve and ask CCP to water it down into something that it is not?

The terms griefer and ganker are subjective, what you see as griefing, others see as legitimate gameplay, including the only people whose opinion, CCP.

Eve is not a mainstream game, CCP know it, most of us know it. It's a niche game offering an open world PvP sandbox, which is why many of us play it, even if some of us decide not to avail ourselves of all the possibilities it offers.



Do you know why the vast majority of MMOs are not sandboxes? Because MMO devs saw what happened with UO. This attracts the griefer type, and they´d rather hardcode limitations from the start rather than have to deal with balancing griefing.

So, quite bluntly, we now have crappy non-sandboxy MMOs because a minority of gamers enjoy being jerks online. Do you find it amusing? I don´t.

I don´t think sandox games have to be watered-down, I think that the type of gamer who develops glee by witnessing his own self (i:e. not his character) being the cause of the RL distress of some unknown Joe, which he has created by using a video game as a platform, has no place in an online game. Three strikes and he should be IP banned, so the sandbox can accommodate "regular" gamers who enjoy having fun with each other instead of at each other´s expense.

And having fun with each other does not mean there´s no PvP, quite the contrary. But PvP that is seen as an ingame action and goal, rather as a means to make some dude mad.

Griefers can use legitimate gameplay to experience Schadenfreude, but what matters is what they are after: ingame fantasies, or the feeling of impure joy because their RL self has made somebody rage IRL?


Marsha Mallow wrote:

It's not a single player game. There is no "minding my own business" mode. There are no non-combat ships (battlebadger ftw) - even Jump Freighters can be used as bait. There aren't defencelss players, usually just ignorant ones. You are willingly engaging in economic PVP when you mine. We are willingly engaged with PVP in all forms, everywhere. The defence against gankers and griefing is typically to engage brain and play in specific ways with other people. If you can't and won't, welcome to the forums where you can flail about impotently demanding sympathy from the very people likely to shoot you in the face.

ps. speak for yourself re sex Mandarine. Some of us are more than happy to be the only one having fun.


PvP is awesome when players want to play pretend. Ganking is an abomination, as it falls outside the magic circle and is just online sadism.

Regarding sex, if you can´t make it good for your partner, you have no place in a relationship. Much like you have no place in a game environment if you don´t want others to have fun.

It´s like I´m debating with randroids. Are you people capable of empathy?
Divine Entervention
Doomheim
#436 - 2014-02-27 19:20:08 UTC
Ai Shun wrote:
Scipio Artelius wrote:
It would be great if a DEV or GM dealt with it once and for all.


Or, you know, put him on Ignore. That way you don't see his posts (unless others quote him) and once people stop talking to him he'll be alone in his echo chamber, just as he wants to be. Be humane. Give him what he wants.

This is definitely an option. I've put multiple people in this thread on ignore. You have the same option just as I do. Another choice.
Tesco Ergo Sum
#437 - 2014-02-27 19:25:28 UTC
Come on guys 30 pages is sooo close... I know you can do it!

Even after mass moderation you've showed staying power above and beyond what was required.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#438 - 2014-02-27 19:26:23 UTC
Mandarine wrote:



Do you know why the vast majority of MMOs are not sandboxes? Because MMO devs saw what happened with UO. This attracts the griefer type, and they´d rather hardcode limitations from the start rather than have to deal with balancing griefing.

So, quite bluntly, we now have crappy non-sandboxy MMOs because a minority of gamers enjoy being jerks online. Do you find it amusing? I don´t.


This part is telling, because it's what politicians do: Blame the group of people they don't like for a situation they couldn't possibly have been responsible for.

Show me ONE game maker who said they made their MMORPG a themepark type game because of UO (or any other) griefers.

Quote:

It´s like I´m debating with randroids. Are you people capable of empathy?


This is another one of them smoking guns that tells you that the speaker has some in real life extremest political views as well as incorrect gaming views (and no, I'm not a follower of Ayn Rand or anyone else named rand).
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#439 - 2014-02-27 19:26:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Divine Entervention wrote:
There's no point talking to him. He wont acknowledge the basic idea that it's the people at their keyboards making the choices.
Incorrect. I just don't consider it relevant. You were unable to cope with this hiccup in your plans since it blew your false dichotomy out of the water and you were hoping to be able to find an avenue of escape using it.

Who makes the decisions only matters if you can draw any conclusions from it, and you have consistently show yourself incapable of doing exactly that.

Mandarine wrote:
PvP is awesome when players want to play pretend. Ganking is an abomination, as it falls outside the magic circle and is just online sadism.
No it does not. It's just PvP and exists entirely within the magic circle. You're confusing ganking with griefing and harassment.

Quote:
Are you people capable of empathy?
Are you capable of logic, argumentation, reasoning and presenting proof of your assertions?
Anhenka
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#440 - 2014-02-27 19:28:19 UTC
Mandarine wrote:
~Another moral superiority rant which Divine would be proud of~ ~decrying of people who play differently than him and demanding GM's IP ban them~ ~Comparison of gameplay to ****~


Ok, that's it, thread's twitching less than the revamp POS thread.

Go home people, sort out your life, and decide if you actually want to log in again. If all you want to do is sit around proclaiming your personal superiority to others, then this is not the place for you. The game is not always happy, not always fun. You signed up knowing of the stories told of theft, sabotaging, awoxing, and grand plots, and now want the game to change because you find yourself disliking those same draws. There are MMO's with will allow you perfectly safe solo play. This is not one of them.

Frankly, this thread cannot be locked fast enough. What started out as a whiny rant and appeal for pity turned into a pit of abuse and trolling, got purged of 75% of the posts, then has rapidly skyrocketed back up to a posting frequency and shitslinging pace far beyond that of previous.


Help me ISD whoeverthefuckison, you're my only hope.