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Why are many people on these forums so negative, and so hostile?

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Divine Entervention
Doomheim
#401 - 2014-02-27 18:36:20 UTC
Frank Millar wrote:
This is getting pretty tiresome, Divine Whatever. Biomass yourself already. Bear


Hey man I'm new to eve, can you explain what bio mass implies?
BrundleMeth
State War Academy
Caldari State
#402 - 2014-02-27 18:36:31 UTC
But Jenn is hot. You look gay...
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#403 - 2014-02-27 18:37:33 UTC
Divine Entervention wrote:
You say what you want. I'm still right, you're still wrong.

It's demonstrated by our play styles.

You don't even know what my play style is. So no, you're still using nothing but assumptions and prejudice to guide you. You are inherently wrong.

Quote:
That's pretty funny coming from a guy who's objective is to make others miserable.
What makes you claim that?
Victoria Thorne
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#404 - 2014-02-27 18:38:21 UTC
So... page # 27. Divine, I suspect that you are the sort of person who insists on the last word... Amusing! Big smile
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#405 - 2014-02-27 18:38:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Divine Entervention wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Divine Entervention wrote:


You say what you want. I'm still right, you're still wrong.

It's demonstrated by our play styles.


You forgot to say "naa naa nee boo boo, stick your head in doo do" at the end of your post.


Are you accusing me of acting childish?

That's pretty funny coming from a guy who's objective is to make others miserable.

Hypocrite


What? Where did I say my objective is to make others miserable?

Are you that childish? How old are you?
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#406 - 2014-02-27 18:38:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
Before this thread receives it's final inevitable lock, hopefully this is a summary of the reasons listed to the original question of why people on the forum appear to be negative:

  1. Strong HTFU attitude predominant in EvE where hostility in game carries over to the forum

  2. In general people are rabbits that cluster around common ideas and attack anything else

  3. People with negative opinions are more vocal (vocal minority)

  4. Anonymity of the Internet

  5. They forget the "G" in MMORPG and fail to separate real life from fiction

  6. A lot of threads contain nerfs to someone else's play, so are attacked to preserve current state

  7. Reposting the same thing over and over and over is very tiring

  8. Crap ideas deserve to be criticised

  9. Threads are posted in the wrong forums, particularly in relation to GD

  10. Trolls and feeding

  11. Easier to attack a person than their ideas

  12. Threads can begin negatively, so attract negative responses and it spirals

  13. EvE appeals to aggressive people, who carry that over to the forum

  14. The forum is an extension of the game and being the villain is valid

  15. Everything constructive was covered long ago, so there are no fresh, exciting topics

  16. It's easier to tear an idea down than to help improve it

  17. Posters develop perceptions of other posters and base responses on the perception rather than the post

  18. Moderation doesn't support people, so they have to be negative to defend themselves

  19. Lack of empathy and no real consequences

  20. Small **** syndrome

  21. Because some people want to be negative and the forum allows them to be

  22. Arrogance and self importance

  23. Some threads start with false facts (even deliberately) in order to produce negativity

  24. Lack of ability to use the search function before New Topic

  25. People lack personal control

  26. Shotposting deserve a **** response

  27. Something about hungry hippos (just added for some lightness to the list)

  28. Game is balanced between good and bad, but good stays in game, so bad on the forum is the balance

  29. All video game forums are where negative people congregate

  30. Because bitter vets

  31. The game is based on competing aims between players which carries over to the forum

  32. There's no cake (see above earlier comment)

  33. Other real life frustration is released here (sexual was the example used)

  34. Because perception of negativity doesn't always match the posters reality

  35. People who suck at the game release their frustration here

  36. To generate tears

  37. People of the forum are the most passionate about the game and passion is interpreted as negative posting


Anymore I missed or that need to be added?

It was only a quick gleen through the thread, so I may have missed some.

Many of those could probably be combined into single ideas and the list shortened, but I'll just leave it as is.

Now we need the "I enjoy all the positivity of the forums, why are people so positive" balancing thread (it will be short).
Divine Entervention
Doomheim
#407 - 2014-02-27 18:40:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Divine Entervention
Marsha Mallow wrote:
Divine Entervention wrote:
You can come blow up my venture if you want. Just don't be upset when I label you as someone I can't trust and treat you as such.
Exploding your ship really isn't all that personal from some points of view. It's just another target. Fair enough some people are obnoxious about it, but assuming PVP is synoymous with griefing or that the player has psychological issues is pretty wierd. What on earth do people come to a PVP sandbox and expect? We just want to play with you (violently)!

Mandarine wrote:
And to clarify, there are in New Eden a lot of pirates and pvpers who do not fall at all into the griefer/ganker category. Actually, those are a minority, albeit a vocal one.
If people scream when their pixels explode, it's really hard to keep a straight face. Go blow a few people up, get into the spirit of the game rather than judging everyone else for doing so, and that moral superiority/victim mentality might shift a few degrees. The fact that a lot of devs pvp should be indicative of the philosophy of the game. You don't see them posting claiming to roleplay victims of griefers eh.


if I'm in high sec mining and a guy chooses to want to blow up my venture, well I get to think he's loathsome for imposing his desire to kill me when I obviously wanted safety upon me. If he wanted to PvP he would find someone in low sec or null who is also looking for pvp. Instead, he made the choice to prey upon the weak and defenseless. he didn't have to, he made that choice.

Because he made that choice, I'm allowed to classify him as someone who makes that choice. He chooses to be a despicable person. He imposes his desires onto others, in this instance on me in particular for his own benefit with no regard to my feelings. That's a disrespectful act and it defines the person.

Now I don't want that option removed from the game. I enjoy the potential. But on the other side of the coin, I'm still going to label him as a person who is untrustworthy. Because he's shown me he is capable of putting his own feelings ahead of everyone elses regardless of the expense inflicted upon them.
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#408 - 2014-02-27 18:45:38 UTC
Divine Entervention wrote:


Are you accusing me of acting childish?



It's hardly an accusation. It's a statement of truth.

You've been sh**ing up other Forums and threads today as well.

Lot's of alcohol is bad, m'kay ? Now, that is an accusation.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#409 - 2014-02-27 18:47:05 UTC
BrundleMeth wrote:
But Jenn is hot. You look gay...



What does gay look like ?

I'm a 48 year old gay male who lived in San Fran for 17 years and I was more wrong than right in both directions guessing who is what.

Can I hear from your "expert" self about this ????

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#410 - 2014-02-27 18:47:25 UTC
Divine Entervention wrote:
if I'm in high sec mining and a guy chooses to want to blow up my venture, well I get to think he's loathsome for imposing his desire to kill me when I obviously wanted safety upon me.
Of course you get to think that. It's just that you have pretty much nothing to support any assumption about what kind of person he is outside of the game. You also get to hear that you have fundamentally misunderstood how EVE works since you think that just because you want safety, you get safety.

You actually have to impose your desire for safety on him in much the same way as he imposes his desires onto you. It's just part and parcel of a full-PvP sandbox game.

Quote:
Because he made that choice, I'm allowed to classify him as someone who makes that choice.
…but you're not really allowed to classify him as any kind of person because you have nothing to connect his in-game behaviour with his out-of-game personality or morality or character. If you do, you have some very serious problems separating game from reality, and that's something you probably need to have fixed.

Quote:
That's a disrespectful act and it defines the person.
It's no more disrespectful than your desire for safety, and it is far less disrespectful than the prejudice you exhibit towards the player behind that character.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#411 - 2014-02-27 18:48:13 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Divine Entervention wrote:


Are you accusing me of acting childish?



It's hardly an accusation. It's a statement of truth.

You've been sh**ing up other Forums and threads today as well.

Lot's of alcohol is bad, m'kay ? Now, that is an accusation.


Well I hate false accusations and I've been the victim of those a lot (apparently telling raw truth is now "trolling").

But I'm gonna say this anyways: Seeing these posts and posts in other forum sections, anyone else think this is some kind of massive stealthy troll?
Mag's
Azn Empire
#412 - 2014-02-27 18:49:50 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:


Well I hate false accusations and I've been the victim of those a lot (apparently telling raw truth is now "trolling").

But I'm gonna say this anyways: Seeing these posts and posts in other forum sections, anyone else think this is some kind of massive stealthy troll?
I thought that early on and tested the waters, so to speak. It's quite obvious now.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Mandarine
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#413 - 2014-02-27 18:50:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Mandarine
Marsha Mallow wrote:

Mandarine wrote:
And to clarify, there are in New Eden a lot of pirates and pvpers who do not fall at all into the griefer/ganker category. Actually, those are a minority, albeit a vocal one.
If people scream when their pixels explode, it's really hard to keep a straight face. Go blow a few people up, get into the spirit of the game rather than judging everyone else for doing so, and that moral superiority/victim mentality might shift a few degrees. The fact that a lot of devs pvp should be indicative of the philosophy of the game. You don't see them posting claiming to roleplay victims of griefers eh.


There is a huge gaping difference between what the common gaming sense describes as PvP (somewhat consensual, somewhat balanced engagements), and ganks/griefs, where all manners of imbalances and non-consensuality are sought, for the express purpose of making the gankees mad and read/hear them rage.

That quite a few pvpers despise gankers and griefers should also hint at the fact that the actions of the latter do not fall within the magic circle, since they develop glee by witnessing their own selves (i:e. not their character) being the cause of the RL distress of some unknown Joe, which they have created by using a video game as a platform, not as means in itself, which would entail trying to create a narrative that would be fun for all.

Because, once again, games are more fun when everybody has at least some fun, just like parties or sexual intercourse.
Victoria Thorne
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#414 - 2014-02-27 18:51:27 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Divine Entervention wrote:


Are you accusing me of acting childish?



It's hardly an accusation. It's a statement of truth.

You've been sh**ing up other Forums and threads today as well.

Lot's of alcohol is bad, m'kay ? Now, that is an accusation.


Well I hate false accusations and I've been the victim of those a lot (apparently telling raw truth is now "trolling").

But I'm gonna say this anyways: Seeing these posts and posts in other forum sections, anyone else think this is some kind of massive stealthy troll?


I don't think it's stealthy at all.

Alternatively, it might be someone trying to set some sort of strange (bad) posting record.
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#415 - 2014-02-27 18:56:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
Victoria Thorne wrote:
I don't think it's stealthy at all.

Alternatively, it might be someone trying to set some sort of strange (bad) posting record.


+1 to this. It's not stealthy at all. He's getting his personal enjoyment out of this. No more, no less.

Troll has become a hackneyed term now, but IMHO, we actually have one here at the moment. Feeding is bad, but sometimes it's difficult to avoid.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#416 - 2014-02-27 18:57:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Mandarine wrote:


I don´t see that WoWish rpgs are sandboxes. And remember why UO was trammelized, imposing hardcoded limitations on pvp.

When the technology allows for a million concurrent players, do you think CCP will still be content with 70-80k?
As you say UO was trammelised which imposed hardcoded restrictions on PvP, did that make UO more successful? In the short term yes, in the long term it effectively killed the game. We don't want that to happen to Eve, neither do the devs. As I said earlier early CCP devs came from UO, a pre-trammel UO.

As for CCP being happy with 70-80K online at any one time? I'm sure they'd be happy with that, it's nearly double current figures.

The server that CCP are using is already one of the most powerful gaming servers out there, IIRC some of the kit is so cutting edge/experimental that CCP are the only people using it on a large scale. A million concurrent users is a pipe dream, no other game manages it without sharding, and Eve is very much a single shard game, which is part of its appeal.

Quote:
I think that "regular" gamers image their favorite character, whom they impersonate, waging battles, solving puzzles, interacting in some form or another with other player-controlled characters, all in the environment of the game. They are playing a game, and having fantasies that take place within the game.

In a sandbox environment, this allows for all kinds of heroic and dastardly actions, mind you.

You think that MMOs are bland and railroad experiences because of "regular" players. But, as I wrote above, remember why UO was trammelized. The griefers´ playstyle imposed this.
Nope the devs made the mistake of listening to the people that failed to understand that UO was originally an open PvP world, that'd be people like you

Quote:
The problem lies not with the "regular" gamer, who wants to play pretend and actually enjoys open environments. It lies with the griefer type, who does not see the ingame narrative as an end it itself, but merely uses the game as a platform to experience Schadenfreude. They develop glee by witnessing their own selves (i:e. not their character) being the cause of the RL distress of some unknown Joe, which they have created by using the game as a platform.
Bollocks, you're now talking out of your arse, the problem is with people that come to a game and refuse to adapt to its environment. I don't go to HKO and ask for open world PvP to be implemented, because HKO isn't that type of game, why do people come to Eve and ask CCP to water it down into something that it is not?

Quote:
And to clarify, there are in New Eden a lot of pirates and pvpers who do not fall at all into the griefer/ganker category. Actually, those are a minority, albeit a vocal one.
The terms griefer and ganker are subjective, what you see as griefing, others see as legitimate gameplay, including the only people whose opinion, CCP.

Eve is not a mainstream game, CCP know it, most of us know it. It's a niche game offering an open world PvP sandbox, which is why many of us play it, even if some of us decide not to avail ourselves of all the possibilities it offers.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Divine Entervention
Doomheim
#417 - 2014-02-27 18:59:15 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Divine Entervention wrote:


Are you accusing me of acting childish?



It's hardly an accusation. It's a statement of truth.

You've been sh**ing up other Forums and threads today as well.

Lot's of alcohol is bad, m'kay ? Now, that is an accusation.


I don't drink. I agree lots of alcohol is bad. I use to drink like 7 years ago, not alot, but still enough to realize I don't enjoy it.

Maybe it's your truth, but you being a person who condones and supports people acting like dicks to each other is proof that your goal is to upset others, removing validity from your statements and classifying you as a person unworthy of having their opinion respected.
Erica Dusette
Division 13
#418 - 2014-02-27 18:59:41 UTC
Quote:
But I'm gonna say this anyways: Seeing these posts and posts in other forum sections, anyone else think this is some kind of massive stealthy troll?

There's absolutely no doubt that all the majority of his posts equal is trolling, quite heavily.

Although after going over the same posts you mention, and having a couple private convos with him, I'm not sure he actually realises he's being the very same kind of troll he preaches against.

But then again he does advertise his self-proclaimed forum-awesomeness a little overtly, which then makes me second guess whether he means to troll or not.

Who knows. All I know is that he's not debating things to reach a consensus or conclusion - he's simply arguing for arguments sake, either to troll others or as an outlet for his own issues somehow. Hence I won't waste too much of my own time riding his self-indulgent ferris wheel. Roll

Jack Miton > you be nice or you're sleeping on the couch again!

Part-Time Wormhole Pirate ツ Full-Time Supermodel

▷ worмнole dιary + cнaracтer вιoѕ ▷ вσss
Divine Entervention
Doomheim
#419 - 2014-02-27 19:01:23 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Mandarine wrote:


I don´t see that WoWish rpgs are sandboxes. And remember why UO was trammelized, imposing hardcoded limitations on pvp.

When the technology allows for a million concurrent players, do you think CCP will still be content with 70-80k?
As you say UO was trammelised which imposed hardcoded restrictions on PvP, did that make UO more successful? In the short term yes, in the long term it effectively killed the game. We don't want that to happen to Eve, neither do the devs. As I said earlier early CCP devs came from UO, a pre-trammel UO.

As for CCP being happy with 70-80K online at any one time? I'm sure they'd be happy with that, it's nearly double current figures.

The server that CCP are using is already one of the most powerful gaming servers out there, IIRC some of the kit is so cutting edge that CCP are the only civilian group using it. A million concurrent users is a pipe dream, no other game manages it without sharding, and Eve is very much a single shard game, which is part of its appeal.

Quote:
I think that "regular" gamers image their favorite character, whom they impersonate, waging battles, solving puzzles, interacting in some form or another with other player-controlled characters, all in the environment of the game. They are playing a game, and having fantasies that take place within the game.

In a sandbox environment, this allows for all kinds of heroic and dastardly actions, mind you.

You think that MMOs are bland and railroad experiences because of "regular" players. But, as I wrote above, remember why UO was trammelized. The griefers´ playstyle imposed this.
Nope the devs made the mistake of listening to the people that failed to understand that UO was originally an open PvP world, that'd be people like you

Quote:
The problem lies not with the "regular" gamer, who wants to play pretend and actually enjoys open environments. It lies with the griefer type, who does not see the ingame narrative as an end it itself, but merely uses the game as a platform to experience Schadenfreude. They develop glee by witnessing their own selves (i:e. not their character) being the cause of the RL distress of some unknown Joe, which they have created by using the game as a platform.
Bollocks, you're now talking out of your arse, the problem is with people that come to a game and refuse to adapt to its environment. I don't go to HKO and ask for open world PvP to be implemented, because HKO isn't that type of game, why do people come to Eve and ask CCP to water it down into something that it is not?

Quote:
And to clarify, there are in New Eden a lot of pirates and pvpers who do not fall at all into the griefer/ganker category. Actually, those are a minority, albeit a vocal one.
The terms griefer and ganker are subjective, what you see as griefing, others see as legitimate gameplay, including the only people whose opinion, CCP.

Eve is not a mainstream game, CCP know it, most of us know it. It's a niche game offering an open world PvP sandbox, which is why many of us play it, even if some of us decide not to avail ourselves of all the possibilities it offers.



Griefing may be allowed, but so too is the right to label griefers as people not worth associating with.
Divine Entervention
Doomheim
#420 - 2014-02-27 19:03:21 UTC
Erica Dusette wrote:
Quote:
But I'm gonna say this anyways: Seeing these posts and posts in other forum sections, anyone else think this is some kind of massive stealthy troll?

There's absolutely no doubt that all the majority of his posts equal is trolling, quite heavily.

Although after going over the same posts you mention, and having a couple private convos with him, I'm not sure he actually realises he's being the very same kind of troll he preaches against.

But then again he does advertise his self-proclaimed forum-awesomeness a little overtly, which then makes me second guess whether he means to troll or not.

Who knows. All I know is that he's not debating things to reach a consensus or conclusion - he's simply arguing for arguments sake, either to troll others or as an outlet for his own issues somehow. Hence I won't waste too much of my own time riding his self-indulgent ferris wheel. Roll


You think I didn't know you were trying to play me? High opinion of yourself much I see.