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Getting ganked on a closed Jita gate

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Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#441 - 2014-02-26 15:02:25 UTC
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:



People can take every precaution available and should you be at the wrong place at the wrong time you can still get ganked.

Ganking is just part of the game but to suggest that every single person that ever was or will be ganked is ALWAYS at fault is ignorant.


No - people don't take every precaution available. That is why they get ganked (successfully).

If you get ganked in new caldari or perimeter on a jita gate you've already failed at "taking every precaution".
Your Dad Naked
Doomheim
#442 - 2014-02-26 15:14:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Your Dad Naked
Tauranon wrote:
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:



People can take every precaution available and should you be at the wrong place at the wrong time you can still get ganked.

Ganking is just part of the game but to suggest that every single person that ever was or will be ganked is ALWAYS at fault is ignorant.


No - people don't take every precaution available. That is why they get ganked (successfully).

If you get ganked in new caldari or perimeter on a jita gate you've already failed at "taking every precaution".


What if I get ganked on one of the other gates? The only way to take every precaution is to not go to Jita during peak hours. That's absurd.

This is beyond the point anyways. The gates shouldn't be gank havens like that even if there were 500 options to jump through. The only reason you get stuck outside the gate is because the servers cannot handle the load of you jumping into the system. It is purely a hardware limitation. The mechanic was designed solely to deal with server lag, and without the increased server load the mechanic allows you to jump through safely every time.

The ganking we see is simply a repercussion of the design and does not at all reflect it's actual intention. Considering without the hardware limitation you are allowed to jump a gate every single time without exception, the most reasonable assumption becomes that the ganking outside of locked Jita gates is an unintended consequence of an entirely separate game mechanic.
Aimy Maulerant
DDo Squad Gaming
#443 - 2014-02-26 15:38:38 UTC
in theory what you are asking is for a ganker/pirate to be restricted to earning an eve living so you can make your own living safely

pirates are trying to make isk just as much as a freighter or whatever is camped at the gates so you are just trying to restrict them from doing this, if a nightclub in reallife is at max capacity then they wont let anyone else in nothing they can do about it, life is full of limitations get over it
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#444 - 2014-02-26 15:45:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Your Dad Naked wrote:
The only way to take every precaution is to not go to Jita during peak hours. That's absurd.
It's not particularly absurd at all. Just plan ahead — instead of taking a bathroom break during a commercial on a Thursday evening, log in, jump your stuff into Jita and dump it. Takes all of five minutes at the most. Come the week-end, everything is where it needs to be.

Or better yet, take the precaution of not going into Jita at all. Just go to a nearby system and courier it in (or out).

Quote:
The gates shouldn't be gank havens like that even if there were 500 options to jump through.
Why not? They're natural choke points. In fact, the game is purposefully designed to have these kinds of choke points. Of course they will be gank havens if people clog them up.

Quote:
It is purely a hardware limitation.
No, it really isn't.
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#445 - 2014-02-26 15:49:49 UTC
Your Dad Naked wrote:
Tauranon wrote:
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:



People can take every precaution available and should you be at the wrong place at the wrong time you can still get ganked.

Ganking is just part of the game but to suggest that every single person that ever was or will be ganked is ALWAYS at fault is ignorant.


No - people don't take every precaution available. That is why they get ganked (successfully).

If you get ganked in new caldari or perimeter on a jita gate you've already failed at "taking every precaution".


What if I get ganked on one of the other gates? The only way to take every precaution is to not go to Jita during peak hours. That's absurd.


nobody dies on the Maurasi / Jita gate, and if people are dying on that gate, then you can have noticed by observing it from d-scan for 5 or 10 mins before you commit to making the run. Nobody will die on the gate though because all the sensible haulers went there, and are cloaked and will only commit to the gate if it looks clear. Park a gank squad there and nobody comes. That's because its the gate that sensible people use.

Quote:



This is beyond the point anyways. The gates shouldn't be gank havens like that even if there were 500 options to jump through. The only reason you get stuck outside the gate is because the servers cannot handle the load of you jumping into the system. It is purely a hardware limitation. The mechanic was designed solely to deal with server lag, and without the increased server load the mechanic allows you to jump through safely every time.



it also does it when nodes haven't loaded yet, and it also does it if nodes crash. Something that Jita may do far more routinely if not limited. Yay the laws of physics!

Quote:



The ganking we see is simply a repercussion of the design and does not at all reflect it's actual intention. Considering without the hardware limitation you are allowed to jump a gate every single time without exception, the most reasonable assumption becomes that the ganking outside of locked Jita gates is an unintended consequence of an entirely separate game mechanic.


The gates were and are, and always have been designed into the game as a chokepoint. You can always delay a run at something by 5 minutes to observe.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#446 - 2014-02-26 15:52:24 UTC
Your Dad Naked wrote:

What if I get ganked on one of the other gates? The only way to take every precaution is to not go to Jita during peak hours. That's absurd.

This is beyond the point anyways. The gates shouldn't be gank havens like that even if there were 500 options to jump through. The only reason you get stuck outside the gate is because the servers cannot handle the load of you jumping into the system. It is purely a hardware limitation. The mechanic was designed solely to deal with server lag, and without the increased server load the mechanic allows you to jump through safely every time.

The ganking we see is simply a repercussion of the design and does not at all reflect it's actual intention. Considering without the hardware limitation you are allowed to jump a gate every single time without exception, the most reasonable assumption becomes that the ganking outside of locked Jita gates is an unintended consequence of an entirely separate game mechanic.


Bolded the solution. but you don't want a solution right?

People mostly get ganked because they have stuff worth taking and are in space. The locked gate only makes it easier to find such people because in addition to not being smart enough to not be a gank target (very easy to do this btw), they weren't smart enough to :

a- warp off a locked gate and dock up till a non-peak time

b- go to another trade hub

The people complaining about getting ganked on a locked jita gate are basically asking CCP to fix the game to prevent them from being exposed to the consequences of thier being irresponsible, dumb, lazy and/or uncreative. CCP does not promise access to jita or any other system 100% of the time.

The above makes the requested changes a bad idea, CCP should never do anything to help players not take responsibility for their game play choices. i've found jita locked up on the weekend which prevented me from doing certain things. I moved to Amarr and Hek. Problem solved.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#447 - 2014-02-26 16:06:49 UTC
Your Dad Naked wrote:

What if I get ganked on one of the other gates? The only way to take every precaution is to not go to Jita during peak hours. That's absurd.



Dont be a gank target in the first place. Its not hard.
IDGAD
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#448 - 2014-02-26 16:45:03 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Your Dad Naked wrote:

What if I get ganked on one of the other gates? The only way to take every precaution is to not go to Jita during peak hours. That's absurd.



Dont be a gank target in the first place. Its not hard.


Not really, I've been on numerous gank fleets and after numerous dead caldari navy ravens, we often blow up random **** for the luls like suiciding the rapier and vaga that try to blow up our gank fleets as they travel from gate to gate. Quite honestly if a target is amusing enough, it will be blown up if it's not too hard. When you constantly fly gank fleets, you have the manpower and infrastructure (ship cache) to just blow your load on some random scrub.
Venorati
Perkone
Caldari State
#449 - 2014-02-26 16:49:19 UTC
Something tells me many of these posts would look different if we were talking about combat ships being denied entry into a pvp system.
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#450 - 2014-02-26 16:54:20 UTC
Venorati wrote:
Something tells me many of these posts would look different if we were talking about combat ships being denied entry into a pvp system.


Every system is a PvP system.

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#451 - 2014-02-26 16:57:05 UTC
Venorati wrote:
Something tells me many of these posts would look different if we were talking about combat ships being denied entry into a pvp system.


If you mean to say that the HTFU crowd in this thread would be the ones whining, I think you'd be wrong. I know that I personally have waited 5 or more minutes to jump a gate into a fight, during which I was vulnerable. I'm pretty sure its still a thing, although the cause isn't a population cap.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Venorati
Perkone
Caldari State
#452 - 2014-02-26 16:57:37 UTC
Kimmi Chan wrote:
Venorati wrote:
Something tells me many of these posts would look different if we were talking about combat ships being denied entry into a pvp system.


Every system is a PvP system.


Every system is also a trading system, but you won't call KL-540 in bumfuck nowhere jove space a trading system just because you -can- trade there.
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#453 - 2014-02-26 17:01:05 UTC
Venorati wrote:
Kimmi Chan wrote:
Venorati wrote:
Something tells me many of these posts would look different if we were talking about combat ships being denied entry into a pvp system.


Every system is a PvP system.


Every system is also a trading system, but you won't call KL-540 in bumfuck nowhere jove space a trading system just because you -can- trade there.


Which is precisely why you don't have to trade in Jita.

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#454 - 2014-02-26 17:31:46 UTC
Venorati wrote:
Something tells me many of these posts would look different if we were talking about combat ships being denied entry into a pvp system.


It also prevent Jita campers from getting in system to camp the undock. PVP ship are no less affected by this.
E-2C Hawkeye
HOW to PEG SAFETY
#455 - 2014-02-26 18:36:51 UTC
Tauranon wrote:
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:



People can take every precaution available and should you be at the wrong place at the wrong time you can still get ganked.

Ganking is just part of the game but to suggest that every single person that ever was or will be ganked is ALWAYS at fault is ignorant.


No - people don't take every precaution available. That is why they get ganked (successfully).

If you get ganked in new caldari or perimeter on a jita gate you've already failed at "taking every precaution".


Some people can and do take the required steps to prevent being ganked yet it still happens. This is like saying every **** victim deserved it because it happened. Sounds stupid doesnt it?
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#456 - 2014-02-26 18:39:47 UTC
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:
Tauranon wrote:
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:



People can take every precaution available and should you be at the wrong place at the wrong time you can still get ganked.

Ganking is just part of the game but to suggest that every single person that ever was or will be ganked is ALWAYS at fault is ignorant.


No - people don't take every precaution available. That is why they get ganked (successfully).

If you get ganked in new caldari or perimeter on a jita gate you've already failed at "taking every precaution".


Some people can and do take the required steps to prevent being ganked yet it still happens. This is like saying every **** victim deserved it because it happened. Sounds stupid doesnt it?


Like almost everything else you're saying. Tauranon did not say anything about what anyone does or does not deserve.


"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#457 - 2014-02-26 18:41:16 UTC
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:

Some people can and do take the required steps to prevent being ganked yet it still happens. This is like saying every **** victim deserved it because it happened. Sounds stupid doesnt it?


I have yet to see a gank killmail of a supertanked deep space transport.

Every gank victim does deserve to lose their stuff if they fail to protect it. Screaming wildly about how unfair life is when you get ganked it very stupid if you dont even bother to take even the most basic of steps to protect yourself.
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#458 - 2014-02-26 18:41:33 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Venorati wrote:
Something tells me many of these posts would look different if we were talking about combat ships being denied entry into a pvp system.


It also prevent Jita campers from getting in system to camp the undock. PVP ship are no less affected by this.


Excellent point, especially considering that PVP persons that log on are moved out of jita and thus have to wait to get in.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#459 - 2014-02-26 18:58:04 UTC
Batelle wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Venorati wrote:
Something tells me many of these posts would look different if we were talking about combat ships being denied entry into a pvp system.


It also prevent Jita campers from getting in system to camp the undock. PVP ship are no less affected by this.


Excellent point, especially considering that PVP persons that log on are moved out of jita and thus have to wait to get in.


We also cannot chase a ship into the system so in a way, this system is protecting you when you jump into a full jita.
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#460 - 2014-02-26 19:06:00 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Batelle wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Venorati wrote:
Something tells me many of these posts would look different if we were talking about combat ships being denied entry into a pvp system.


It also prevent Jita campers from getting in system to camp the undock. PVP ship are no less affected by this.


Excellent point, especially considering that PVP persons that log on are moved out of jita and thus have to wait to get in.


We also cannot chase a ship into the system so in a way, this system is protecting you when you jump into a full jita.


You never go full Jita. Lol

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!