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Getting ganked on a closed Jita gate

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March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#261 - 2014-02-24 15:21:45 UTC
Kimmi Chan wrote:

The game mechanics are fine.
What the players do with the mechanics is what makes this the sandbox that it is.

I find it troubling that some want to change the nature of the game mechanics and not the nature of their use of those mechanics.

actually game mechanics makes 90% of 'sandbox'.

Take a look to suicide ganking. How many tactics do you see here? Do you see logi fleets? Maybe you see different fleet compositions? Maybe you see fleets defending freighters in empire? Nope? Why? Because of game mechanics which restricts pvp actions so heavily so you almost have no place to invent something.

That's why you only see bunch of catalysts or BCs. They attack, kill and die. And this is for years without changes. Because as player you cannot invent ganking beyond limits of game mechanics.

The same with Jita: game mechanics placed system Jita into middle of an Universe, game mechanics made it so it's the nearest point for many systems, game mechanics made it so Caldari space has the biggest amount of players, etc....
Should CCP choose other changes to Universe other solar system could become 'Jita'.
Should CCP place low-sec systems between empires there will be no one huge trade hub.
Etc, etc....

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#262 - 2014-02-24 15:24:07 UTC
Your Dad Naked wrote:


The personal adjustment to be made is fly around to a less used gate where you don't run the same risk of being ganked. This is what I do. The last time however, there was a Thrasher on gate and I was in a frigate carrying 600mil ISK. Workarounds typically have simialr problems: they are not true fixes, and thus fall apart eventually.

You may be saying my problem was carrying 600mil in a frigate, but it wasn't. I align in under 2 seconds, make it impossible to catch me. My jita dock spot is literally inside the station; when I land it sends me springing out at over 5 km/s. I'm already docked before it even slows down. Try tracking that, Tornados!





Blocade runner, warps as fast as an intercepter, aligns like a frigate, can warp while cloaked and its hold cannot be scanned.

Yes you were dumb to use a frigate to transport 600 mil.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#263 - 2014-02-24 15:24:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Your Dad Naked wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Kimmi Chan wrote:

The game mechanics are fine.
What the players do with the mechanics is what makes this the sandbox that it is.
I find it troubling that some want to change the nature of the game mechanics and not the nature of their use of those mechanics.



Pretty much human nature, some people would rather change the things around them than change themselves.

I've worked with people who always complain, always say "things could be better" and who are always unhappy. Rather than go work for one of the 18,000 other employers in our field (that's not a made up number btw), they just complain and complain and complain. But they never leave and they never make the personal adjustments that would change the things they complain about. It's always "they need to do this".

They are just as annoying online as they are in real life.

Yes we are as annoying in both cases, but we are typically correct none the less. Big smile

The personal adjustment to be made is fly around to a less used gate where you don't run the same risk of being ganked. This is what I do. The last time however, there was a Thrasher on gate and I was in a frigate carrying 600mil ISK. Workarounds typically have simialr problems: they are not true fixes, and thus fall apart eventually.

You may be saying my problem was carrying 600mil in a frigate, but it wasn't. I align in under 2 seconds, make it impossible to catch me. My jita dock spot is literally inside the station; when I land it sends me springing out at over 5 km/s. I'm already docked before it even slows down. Try tracking that, Tornados!





So you've never heard of blockade runners? Which are unscannable and thus a gamble for gankers, and gankers hate gambling.

You're right, that's a perfect example of what I'm saying. doing what you do is dumb, and yet you'd rather a video game company make changes to their game product rather than you stopping the dumb activity.

It's unreasonableness like this that makes the world suck lol.
Treborr MintingtonJr
S.N.O.T
S.N.O.T.
#264 - 2014-02-24 15:35:46 UTC
Go to Rens, sorted Cool
Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#265 - 2014-02-24 15:36:13 UTC
Your Dad Naked wrote:
You may be saying my problem was carrying 600mil in a frigate, but it wasn't.

Except it was: I'm no ganking expert, but I doubt a single thrasher would kill anything OTHER THAN an untanked frigate in >0.8 sec space.

And I think a bit of unlucky lag could mess up your superquick align regardless of weekend Jita gates...


Your Dad Naked wrote:
Try tracking that, Tornados!

What if you bounce directly (or even roughly) towards the lucky 'nado?

Just to prove: you're never ever 100% safe even if you take reasonable steps to protect yourself. Embrace the risk!

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#266 - 2014-02-24 15:45:50 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Your Dad Naked wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Kimmi Chan wrote:

The game mechanics are fine.
What the players do with the mechanics is what makes this the sandbox that it is.
I find it troubling that some want to change the nature of the game mechanics and not the nature of their use of those mechanics.



Pretty much human nature, some people would rather change the things around them than change themselves.

I've worked with people who always complain, always say "things could be better" and who are always unhappy. Rather than go work for one of the 18,000 other employers in our field (that's not a made up number btw), they just complain and complain and complain. But they never leave and they never make the personal adjustments that would change the things they complain about. It's always "they need to do this".

They are just as annoying online as they are in real life.

Yes we are as annoying in both cases, but we are typically correct none the less. Big smile

The personal adjustment to be made is fly around to a less used gate where you don't run the same risk of being ganked. This is what I do. The last time however, there was a Thrasher on gate and I was in a frigate carrying 600mil ISK. Workarounds typically have simialr problems: they are not true fixes, and thus fall apart eventually.

You may be saying my problem was carrying 600mil in a frigate, but it wasn't. I align in under 2 seconds, make it impossible to catch me. My jita dock spot is literally inside the station; when I land it sends me springing out at over 5 km/s. I'm already docked before it even slows down. Try tracking that, Tornados!





So you've never heard of blockade runners? Which are unscannable and thus a gamble for gankers, and gankers hate gambling.

You're right, that's a perfect example of what I'm saying. doing what you do is dumb, and yet you'd rather a video game company make changes to their game product rather than you stopping the dumb activity.

It's unreasonableness like this that makes the world suck lol.


LOL. CCP needs to nerf stupid by buffing stuff that stupid people do.

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#267 - 2014-02-24 15:50:56 UTC
Kimmi Chan wrote:


LOL. CCP needs to nerf stupid by buffing stuff that stupid people do.


In one sentence you just summed up both the EVE Online F&I forum and every "I have an idea" post in GD lol.
Eric Stratton
Sanxing Yi
#268 - 2014-02-24 16:16:45 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:

3. Remove all missions, mining, pvp in Jita. There is absolutely no reason for people to be pvp'ing or otherwise doing anything in Jita except trading. They can **** off and go elswhere, there are thousands and thousands of systems in EVE. If you must camp people in Jita, you can do so on the gates in the surrounding systems.

4. Allow remote buying and selling in surrounding systems.


Suggestion 3 is the sort of suggestion a person makes when they think their play style should be considered more important than everyone elses'. A system where you are immune from camping and PVP is just so... not Eve at all that it feels like the suggestion of someone who just doesn't understand what Eve is about. I say this as a person vastly more likely to be a victim of such things than a perpetrator. Don't turn this game into one where you're safe in town and then regular rules apply everywhere else. Also, it seems like this special immunity would only further entrench Jita as a place preferred by the risk averse. It is entirely too fundamental of a change to Eve to propose as a solution to a problem that individual players can circumvent using a variety of tools.

1. Trade elsewhere (I do so all the time).
2. Go at non-peak times.
3. Use tools available to see how busy it is.
4. Use a courier.
5. Do buying and selling of stock remotely (though selling requires you to stock Jita stores during non-peak times...)
6. Take the risk of sitting on a gate during a peak time.

I understand that none of those may be a dream solution for a particular trader, but Eve doesn't always make things easy. Sometimes you can't directly take the exact route you want to take to get something done. You have to come up with alternate solutions, get creative. Some of those obstacles are other players, or they may be game mechanics, or they could be hardware limitations. If there is a technical solution you could imagine it seems reasonable to offer it. If your solution to a small road bump in managing your Eve business is to propose a fundamental alteration of how risk and PVP works... I dunno. I could just never imagine requesting that, because I signed up for Eve Online over 7 years ago knowing full well some guy could blow me up for kicks whenever and where ever, and that is the way I like it.
Nerath Naaris
Pink Winged Unicorns for Peace Love and Anarchy
#269 - 2014-02-24 16:31:17 UTC
Perimeter/Jita Gate closed and feeling like a sitting duck?

Go to the Nyabainen/Jita gate and wait there. Problem solved.

Je suis Paris // Köln // Brüssel // Orlando // Nice // Würzburg, München, Ansbach // Saint-Étienne-du-Rouvray

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Je suis [?]
Motoko Innocentius
Domus Dei
#270 - 2014-02-24 16:31:34 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
it wasn't a suggestion.
Sure it was. Just look at that exclamation mark at the end — classic case of an imperative.

LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:
OP is right, closed gates are a broken game mechanic.
What's more broken: invulnerability or gates behaving normally?


Jumping through a stargate makes you invulnerable, you obviously didn't know this, maybe you should learn2eve before saying your opinions are facts.

As for testing, when a person jumps through a gate but is yet to get to the other side, the ship is left in the system it jumped from but becomes invulnerable.

If gates for jita behaved normally the jumper would be transitioned to the jump animation while their ship is left in the system they jumped from and would be invulnerable. Problem with this is that the jumping ship is now stuck in jump animation until there is space in the system they are going to.

Possible fix for this would be adding a "cancel" button to jump animation with which you could abort jumping.
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#271 - 2014-02-24 16:36:19 UTC
Oblivion King wrote:
if the player is invulnerable can he also shoot other players?
"press jita gate"
"invulnerable"
"proceed to shoot everyone in the vicinity"

No, what would it be is you hit jump, disappear, enter the warp tunnel and stay there until Jita can accept you.

Know a Frozen fan? Check this out

Frozen fanfiction
hydraSlav
Synergy Evolved
#272 - 2014-02-24 16:43:25 UTC
drummendejef maaktnietuit wrote:
Hey guys,

most of us know, and don't forget, that Jita gets full from time to time. The gates close then sitting alot of big expensive ships with a more expensive load sitting duck.

This makes the Jita gate more dangerous than a lowsec gate to die on, while you should be on the safest part beeing in 1.0 space.

This makes me wonder, shouldn't it be a good idea to make a player invulnerable when he presses the "take gate" button? That way the ships made for surviving null/lowsec can also survive highsec. (if not autopilotted, duh!)

I'm talking about Blockade Runners, Covert Ops, T3's.



LOL! Oh, my sides hurt, please stop. ROFL!! LolLolLolLol
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#273 - 2014-02-24 17:31:10 UTC
Deep space transports. A slab of armour with engines slapped on the back for transporting both mid volume and low volume luxury items. Perfect for sitting in traffic jams with no fear of being ganked.
Abishai
#274 - 2014-02-24 17:44:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Abishai
Telling someone not to jump to a "closed" gate without giving them a piror indication that it is closed is ridiculous.

The user should receive a message when a gate on their planned route is congested by either:

1) Displaying the message when the route is set
2) Displaying the message when you reach the system
3) Adding a confirmation when initiating warp to the gate saying a delay is expected

These options are better than adding invulnerability because they require the user take a differnet course of action rather than protecting them when they make a bad choice.
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#275 - 2014-02-24 17:47:30 UTC
Abishai wrote:
Telling someone not to jump to a "closed" gate without giving them a piror indication that it is closed is rediculous.


I don't know what that last word means.

Abishai wrote:
The user should receive a message when a gate on their planned route is congested by either:

1) Displaying the message when the route is set
2) Displaying the message when you reach the system
3) Adding a confirmation when initiating warp to the gate saying a delay is expected


No.

People who shop during peak shopping hours are going to wait in line at the checkout or they're going to shop elsewhere.

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#276 - 2014-02-24 17:54:48 UTC
Abishai wrote:
Telling someone not to jump to a "closed" gate without giving them a piror indication that it is closed is ridiculous.

The user should receive a message when a gate on their planned route is congested by either:

1) Displaying the message when the route is set
2) Displaying the message when you reach the system
3) Adding a confirmation when initiating warp to the gate saying a delay is expected

These options are better than adding invulnerability because they require the user take a differnet course of action rather than protecting them when they make a bad choice.


Warp to a safe 150+ from the gate, is there lots of cargo ships sitting at 0 from the in gate?

If yes then traffic likely, take steps to secure your cargo and join the traffic.
Mario Putzo
#277 - 2014-02-24 18:07:33 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Abishai wrote:
Telling someone not to jump to a "closed" gate without giving them a piror indication that it is closed is ridiculous.

The user should receive a message when a gate on their planned route is congested by either:

1) Displaying the message when the route is set
2) Displaying the message when you reach the system
3) Adding a confirmation when initiating warp to the gate saying a delay is expected

These options are better than adding invulnerability because they require the user take a differnet course of action rather than protecting them when they make a bad choice.


Warp to a safe 150+ from the gate, is there lots of cargo ships sitting at 0 from the in gate?

If yes then traffic likely, take steps to secure your cargo and join the traffic.


Ya because this solves the problem with the gates having to be closed. Stop ignoring the issue and lets talk about solving it. You sound like you should work for CCP.

"You can do this, you can go there, use contracts, wait a couple days! "

When none of those fix the issue. God damn you should be head game developer with that attitude.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#278 - 2014-02-24 18:12:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Mario Putzo wrote:
Ya because this solves the problem with the gates having to be closed. Stop ignoring the issue and lets talk about solving it.
* Looks at title… “Getting ganked on a closed Jita gate”. Yeah, it solves that problem quite neatly.
* Looks at the post it was in response to… “Telling someone not to jump to a "closed" gate without giving them a piror indication that it is closed is ridiculous.” Yeah, it solves that problem too.

Quote:
You can do this, you can go there, use contracts, wait a couple days!
All of those get rid of the problem as well.

But since that isn't enough for you, how do you propose to solve the “problem” that Jita is kept in working order by limiting how many can be in there at once?
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#279 - 2014-02-24 18:17:50 UTC
Tippia wrote:
But since that isn't enough for you, how do you propose to solve the “problem” that Jita is kept in working order by limiting how many can be in there at once?

Idea crash the node
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#280 - 2014-02-24 18:18:42 UTC
Mario Putzo wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Abishai wrote:
Telling someone not to jump to a "closed" gate without giving them a piror indication that it is closed is ridiculous.

The user should receive a message when a gate on their planned route is congested by either:

1) Displaying the message when the route is set
2) Displaying the message when you reach the system
3) Adding a confirmation when initiating warp to the gate saying a delay is expected

These options are better than adding invulnerability because they require the user take a differnet course of action rather than protecting them when they make a bad choice.


Warp to a safe 150+ from the gate, is there lots of cargo ships sitting at 0 from the in gate?

If yes then traffic likely, take steps to secure your cargo and join the traffic.


Ya because this solves the problem with the gates having to be closed. Stop ignoring the issue and lets talk about solving it. You sound like you should work for CCP.

"You can do this, you can go there, use contracts, wait a couple days! "

When none of those fix the issue. God damn you should be head game developer with that attitude.


Mario, the problem is that no issue has been legitimately articulated here. The OP got ganked in an Anathema and in his pod in Perimeter sitting on the Jita gate during the height of population cap in Jita.

Several people have offered reasonable options for the OP that are all well within his ability to use but all of those options have been met with vitriol because CCP should fix the stupid in people who get ganked in an Anathema and their pod on a gate.

I fail to see how Baltec's suggestion is anything more or less than a humble offer of assistance for this poor OP who lost his Anathema and his pod on the gate to Jita in Perimeter at the height of the population cap in Jita.

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!