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Why hi sec players will NOT move into low or null no matter how much you cry about it.

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Jenshae Chiroptera
#61 - 2011-11-11 12:57:07 UTC
Zagdul wrote:
...Honestly, I feel safer in nullsec than I do in empire. ..


If it is all sunshine and roses, why did Volition Cult and other corps leave your alliance, pretty much en mass when you had just claimed most of a region?
What drove them away from what they had worked so hard to get?

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Seleia O'Sinnor
Drop of Honey
#62 - 2011-11-11 12:58:57 UTC
It's funny, I really like Eve, but since CCP showed everyone very clearly that they could screw this game beyond repair I kind of came to my senses. Eve is just a game, I'll stay as long as I feel comfortable here. If there is no way I could play in this sandbox anymore the way I like it, I will leave. No hard feelings, a pity maybe. However, Eve is not built for eternity, so I enjoy the ride, and sometimes I throw up out of the window. If hisec would stop to exist I would clearly biomass myself as those tear driven hatred filled idiots would get their way.

Odyssey: Repacking in POS hangars for modules +1,  but please for other stuff too, especially containers. Make containers openable in POS hangars.
Neve Talie-Ko
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#63 - 2011-11-11 13:01:42 UTC
I read the thread about new players not fearing to come to low/null in the first week of my sub. Once I moved on to Arnon for the SOE arc, I decided to test the theory that low/null needs me. I had already made a few trips to Lisbaetanne for good prices, so I fitted out a little miner and set up shop. I hadn't even filled the hold once before I was podded. It was really all too predictable...no real suspense at all as to what the outcome of my experiment was going to be.

Nobody said "Oh, look, a new player venturing out. Maybe this person has some value to me other than as an easy kill." There was little apparent thought of anything but the opportunity to take down an easy target. (And I do mean easy...I didn't even load any weapons.)

So, I'll stay in the hi sec part of the sandbox and play. Don't expect me in low/null anytime soon.
Elric Astrius
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#64 - 2011-11-11 13:02:55 UTC
Seleia O'Sinnor wrote:
It's funny, I really like Eve, but since CCP showed everyone very clearly that they could screw this game beyond repair I kind of came to my senses. Eve is just a game, I'll stay as long as I feel comfortable here. If there is no way I could play in this sandbox anymore the way I like it, I will leave. No hard feelings, a pity maybe. However, Eve is not built for eternity, so I enjoy the ride, and sometimes I throw up out of the window. If hisec would stop to exist I would clearly biomass myself as those tear driven hatred filled idiots would get their way.




I think this is a harsh reality for many... I mean you did a better job than i did by saying "tear driven hatred filled idiots" lol but I must certainly agree here.... I will stay as long as it takes but the minute I start to feel uncomfortable and yea if high sec goes away and there is no safety for any of us i'll probably either stay in my station skilling up and doing missions until i finally quit but i doubt CCP would do that to us given that they would lose alot of revenue if they took out the PvE content
Elric Astrius
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#65 - 2011-11-11 13:05:02 UTC
Neve Talie-Ko wrote:
I read the thread about new players not fearing to come to low/null in the first week of my sub. Once I moved on to Arnon for the SOE arc, I decided to test the theory that low/null needs me. I had already made a few trips to Lisbaetanne for good prices, so I fitted out a little miner and set up shop. I hadn't even filled the hold once before I was podded. It was really all too predictable...no real suspense at all as to what the outcome of my experiment was going to be.

Nobody said "Oh, look, a new player venturing out. Maybe this person has some value to me other than as an easy kill." There was little apparent thought of anything but the opportunity to take down an easy target. (And I do mean easy...I didn't even load any weapons.)

So, I'll stay in the hi sec part of the sandbox and play. Don't expect me in low/null anytime soon.



Im sorry to hear you got podded Neve, well chalk it up for experience lol but it was a shame they werent more considerate, at least give you some chance to escape or something... but then again the babies had a fresh toy they wanted to break, sad it had to be someone who was minding their own business.
Barbie D0ll
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#66 - 2011-11-11 13:09:02 UTC
lets see
anyone that tries to go into null without being part of giant alliance will simply get supercap drivebys until they leave
anyone that tries to rent will be treated as slaves and meatshields
anyone that tries to be them-self will be kicked and executed for not getting on CTAs all the time
there is absolutely NO REPERCUSSION for someone that plays that has nothing to lose and is an ass all the time

there is absolutely NO REPERCUSSION for someone that uses disposable alts for backstabbing and spy work, spy discovered? bio or sell him make another, rinse and repeat

there is absolutely NO SEURITY/LOGGING of who did what to your corp hanger

being in Highsec has NO PENALTY besides reduced isk income, no ability to defend against suicide gankers, and you cant get caps

being in deep blue nullsec the rats are NO THREAT, they will never organize an attack on you, your pos, or anything you own, there is no possible way to get killed by belt rats (unless you forgot to bring a sufficent tank and went afk)

CONCORD does not care who you are or what you do in high sec as long as you dont incur their wrath, and if you do, its a measly half a day of droping torps on battleships to get your sec status back that you lost for blowing up a multibillion isk tengu

the truth of the matter is highsec is too profitable, there is no risk from NPCs in nullsec and lowsec, there is literally no way to die or be threatened by NPCs,

and Incursion sansha will never ever be a threat to your cloaky ship, your pos, and are simply there for you to farm, and they are simply tourists that will leave in a week if no one blows up their bus

Where is the danger from the environment? the only thing I need to be wary of are other players. EvE as a universe is non-threatening, carebear land, THE NPCS WILL NEVER EVER HURT YOU. players on the other hand will stoop to any low just to stab you in the back, and wear your skin as a trophy in front of police who don't give a damn
Generals4
#67 - 2011-11-11 13:11:54 UTC
Personally i don't think you can attract high sec "bears" by just making null/low/Wh's more lucrative or making high sec less lucrative. Sure for some it may be an issue. But i think most just don't like the gameplay in null/low/WH's. I moved away from high not because i was like "bah high sec is not lucrative enough" but because i was bored of missions and earning isks for the sake of earning it. I wanted my funds to be useful, mainly to fund my pvp activities. I wanted the thrill of pvp'ing. Now sure the lucrative aspect has a little impact, mainly in the sense that you don't want to have to fund your pvp through extremely non-lucrative activities you have to spend most of your time doing, but i doubt that what's going on in low/null/wh's atm. (low can be lucrative through exploration or FW missions, null explo and anoms and WH's sleepers, all earn good money to fund your pvp).

Those who remain in High Sec are those who are barely interested in PvP or don't want to have the constant stress of being shot at any moment. changing the earnings won't change that.

_-Death is nothing, but to live defeated and inglorious is to die daily. _
Ptraci
3 R Corporation
#68 - 2011-11-11 13:15:49 UTC
Barbie D0ll wrote:

being in Highsec has NO PENALTY besides reduced isk income, no ability to defend against suicide gankers, and you cant get caps



Don't get this the wrong way but that's not true - there is a penalty. While you can't be killed without consequences, you can easily be blocked from what you are doing. Mission loot/critical items can be stolen. Mining cans can be flipped. This leaves you with 2 choices - engage and be destroyed unless the guy messing with you is a total noob. Or stop doing what you're doing and log off for 30 minutes until he leaves.

Now I'm not crying about this, it's only fair that there be some way to manipulate the high sec people too. The end result in high sec isn't fireworks but more a "denial of service" type of thing. You are prevented from playing the game. Hell what more do you want than that?
Luh Windan
green fish hat bang bang
#69 - 2011-11-11 13:18:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Luh Windan
Barbie D0ll wrote:


Where is the danger from the environment? the only thing I need to be wary of are other players. EvE as a universe is non-threatening, carebear land, THE NPCS WILL NEVER EVER HURT YOU. players on the other hand will stoop to any low just to stab you in the back, and wear your skin as a trophy in front of police who don't give a damn


I really do think this is the change that is needed.

If the environment wasn't so different that we split into PvE or PvP fits. To be clear - if the environment *encourageed* PvP fits and flying skills then surely it would make things better.

Missioners wouldn't necessarily be easy targets - if you attack them they have a ship that can bite back.

For missioners - low sec would be more accessible. Instead of sneaking round hoping you don;t get caught you will stand a fighting chance.

And perhaps in Nullsec there would genuinely be risk for the rewards (right now the biggest risk sounds like enforced serfdom)

Time to beef up the environment and make it require PvP type setups and skills.

(note that this would still let missioners and the like do their thing but without such a great divide perhaps there would be much more choice)
Jojo Jackson
Dead Red Eye
#70 - 2011-11-11 13:21:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Jojo Jackson
Gilbaron wrote:
so, how about building and creating something in 00 ?

Cool, so a small corp with just a hand of players invest ALL their ISK to build up something and over night [insert random blob or RMT bought gang) blow it up without any changs for the small corp to even start the try to defend their goods (not as if they would have any changs at all against 1000000 RMT bought super caps).

Yea, I know, real life and sleep is FAIL and shouldn't have priority Bear.

And even if this small corp rents space from [insert random RMTing big ally] ... this gave SERO security, that this [random boting ally] don't get borred (or drunken or stoned or any combination of this 3) and just for lulz kick the small corps ass while they sleep.

Do you get it? It's the behavior of YOU, the current inhabitants of 00/low which drives highsec players to avoid 00/low under any conditions!

Why the hell can't I fitt capital repairs or shield booster on an Orca ... it's an CAPITAL ship!
Elric Astrius
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#71 - 2011-11-11 13:24:00 UTC
Luh Windan wrote:
Barbie D0ll wrote:


Where is the danger from the environment? the only thing I need to be wary of are other players. EvE as a universe is non-threatening, carebear land, THE NPCS WILL NEVER EVER HURT YOU. players on the other hand will stoop to any low just to stab you in the back, and wear your skin as a trophy in front of police who don't give a damn


I really do think this is the change that is needed.

If the environment wasn't so different that we split into PvE or PvP fits. To be clear - if the environment *encourageed* PvP fits and flying skills then surely it would make things better.

Missioners wouldn't necessarily be easy targets - if you attack them they have a ship that can bite back.

For missioners - low sec would be more accessible. Instead of sneaking round hoping you don;t get caught you will stand a fighting chance.

And perhaps in Nullsec there would genuinely be risk for the rewards (right now the biggest risk sounds like enforced serfdom)

Time to beef up the environment and make it require PvP type setups and skills.

(note that this would still let missioners and the like do their thing but without such a great divide perhaps there would be much more choice)




So what im gathering from what your saying ... its ok if your getting raped that no one comes to your aid, or if your being stabbed that you should just bleed to death nice... You know something EVE isnt real life... but yet you want us to suffer the same way, this is why i refuse to go into nullsec for the time being, I am really getting tired of people suggesting even changing the dynamics so drastically... I see what your saying but still its like letting people get away with murder and going out and committing a genocide... I am against this 100%
Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#72 - 2011-11-11 13:31:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Jaroslav Unwanted
Luh Windan wrote:



1/If the environment wasn't so different that we split into PvE or PvP fits. To be clear - if the environment *encourageed* PvP fits and flying skills then surely it would make things better.

2/Missioners wouldn't necessarily be easy targets - if you attack them they have a ship that can bite back.

3/For missioners - low sec would be more accessible. Instead of sneaking round hoping you don;t get caught you will stand a fighting chance.

4/And perhaps in Nullsec there would genuinely be risk for the rewards (right now the biggest risk sounds like enforced serfdom)

Time to beef up the environment and make it require PvP type setups and skills.

(note that this would still let missioners and the like do their thing but without such a great divide perhaps there would be much more choice)


Lets see

1/ not an bad idea and many already doing it. You can easily fly "PvP" Raven and do stuff in null sec.

2/ and 3/ unless you planning on getting 120 peeps blob and counting include logistics and possibly capital reinforcements Nothing will truly change.

4/Null sec failed since "anomalies changes" now its just place for "PvPers" to blow **** up. And since "everyone" is blue to "everyone" i can see its an problem. However they cried to hard about carebears in null so there you go.
Jojo Jackson
Dead Red Eye
#73 - 2011-11-11 13:33:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Jojo Jackson
Adunh Slavy wrote:
Krios Ahzek wrote:

So you're saying that PVP is more repetitive and mind numbingly boring than mining, manufacturing and trading?



That includes sitting at a gate camp for a few hours listening to amature military officer wanna bes, right?

Much more fun are fleets, where you sit in a POS for 5 to 10 hours waiting for ANY comment from the fleet leaders but all you get is:
- some peoplz hardcore heavy mattle rap in worst posible audio quality
- a freaking out mom of a kid which REFUSE to use PPT as it's so "uncool" or "can't press another button when in fights"
- while you try to follow the orders of the fleet leades as your english (or his) isn't realy great but a bunch of "jokers" pulp and sniff and lough all the time (over realy REALY bad jokes which aren't funny at all)

Well, yes, I tryed "PvP" in EvE and most (if not all) times it was just TERRIBLE boring and much more wast of time then any killed Sansha could ever be ;).

PS: Jumping around for hours avoiding any fight where you might lose a ship isn't more fun.

Blobs wast hours in POSes
Gankers wast hours at gates
Roamers wast hours avoiding any slight changs of a lose (NO NO, they have ONE more Punisher then we do!!!!!1111)

Why the hell can't I fitt capital repairs or shield booster on an Orca ... it's an CAPITAL ship!
Ptraci
3 R Corporation
#74 - 2011-11-11 13:34:59 UTC
Luh Windan wrote:


If the environment wasn't so different that we split into PvE or PvP fits. To be clear - if the environment *encourageed* PvP fits and flying skills then surely it would make things better.



I agree to this. My biggest complaint ever is the fact that ECM and EW does nothing to rats. If rats were tweaked in such a way that there was a point in jamming, webbing and neuting them, then there would be no "PVE fit". But understandably this would be a major headache for CCP because every mission would need to be re-balanced. Plus it wouldn't make much of a difference to those people who specialize in jumping you in low sec when all the aggro from all the mission rats is on you.
Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#75 - 2011-11-11 13:37:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Jaroslav Unwanted
Jojo Jackson wrote:
Adunh Slavy wrote:
Krios Ahzek wrote:

So you're saying that PVP is more repetitive and mind numbingly boring than mining, manufacturing and trading?



That includes sitting at a gate camp for a few hours listening to amature military officer wanna bes, right?

Much more fun are fleets, where you sit in a POS for 5 to 10 hours waiting for ANY comment from the fleet leaders but all you get is:
- some peoplz hardcore heavy mattle rap in worst posible audio quality
- a freaking out mom of a kid which REFUSE to use PPT as it's so "uncool" or "can't press another button when in fights"
- while you try to follow the orders of the fleet leades as your english (or his) isn't realy great but a bunch of "jokers" pulp and sniff and lough all the time (over realy REALY bad jokes which aren't funny at all)

Well, yes, I tryed "PvP" in EvE and most (if not all) times it was just TERRIBLE boring and much more wast of time then any killed Sansha could ever be ;).

PS: Jumping around for hours avoiding any fight where you might lose a ship isn't more fun.

Blobs wast hours in POSes
Gankers wast hours at gates
Roamers wast hours avoiding any slight changs of a lose (NO NO, they have ONE more Punisher then we do!!!!!1111)


Depend i liked several hours continuous congo trains under the FF . Or flying 60 jump to enemy terriotry in small "20+" peeps shield gank to meet 160 armor hac gank and some engage and die other run for their lives.. then continue with 12+ peeps in fleet and bored engaging an 30 + BS fleet to certein death because who the **** wants to fly back.
Luh Windan
green fish hat bang bang
#76 - 2011-11-11 13:38:38 UTC
Elric Astrius wrote:


So what im gathering from what your saying ... its ok if your getting raped that no one comes to your aid, or if your being stabbed that you should just bleed to death nice... You know something EVE isnt real life... but yet you want us to suffer the same way, this is why i refuse to go into nullsec for the time being, I am really getting tired of people suggesting even changing the dynamics so drastically... I see what your saying but still its like letting people get away with murder and going out and committing a genocide... I am against this 100%


I'm not saying any of that at all. Not even slightly

I am saying that if the NPCs were more like other players doing PvP:

there would be less of a divide into PvE and PvP

People would have more choices - PvP'rs would get better fights.

Missioners would have more choice - you could still stay in Empire but if you chose to wander you would not be so badly prepared.

I'm a care bear too - but I wander into low and null and wormholes and it's fun. But I would be happier if I wasn't so badly setup for PvP
Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#77 - 2011-11-11 13:42:20 UTC
Luh Windan wrote:
Elric Astrius wrote:


So what im gathering from what your saying ... its ok if your getting raped that no one comes to your aid, or if your being stabbed that you should just bleed to death nice... You know something EVE isnt real life... but yet you want us to suffer the same way, this is why i refuse to go into nullsec for the time being, I am really getting tired of people suggesting even changing the dynamics so drastically... I see what your saying but still its like letting people get away with murder and going out and committing a genocide... I am against this 100%


I'm not saying any of that at all. Not even slightly

I am saying that if the NPCs were more like other players doing PvP:

there would be less of a divide into PvE and PvP

People would have more choices - PvP'rs would get better fights.

Missioners would have more choice - you could still stay in Empire but if you chose to wander you would not be so badly prepared.

I'm a care bear too - but I wander into low and null and wormholes and it's fun. But I would be happier if I wasn't so badly setup for PvP


If that was true it would be great. However it would just provide more reason to the "aggressive" party. which can adapt to get upper hand. viz wormholes. I guess.
Elric Astrius
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#78 - 2011-11-11 14:04:50 UTC
Luh Windan wrote:
Elric Astrius wrote:


So what im gathering from what your saying ... its ok if your getting raped that no one comes to your aid, or if your being stabbed that you should just bleed to death nice... You know something EVE isnt real life... but yet you want us to suffer the same way, this is why i refuse to go into nullsec for the time being, I am really getting tired of people suggesting even changing the dynamics so drastically... I see what your saying but still its like letting people get away with murder and going out and committing a genocide... I am against this 100%


I'm not saying any of that at all. Not even slightly

I am saying that if the NPCs were more like other players doing PvP:

there would be less of a divide into PvE and PvP

People would have more choices - PvP'rs would get better fights.

Missioners would have more choice - you could still stay in Empire but if you chose to wander you would not be so badly prepared.

I'm a care bear too - but I wander into low and null and wormholes and it's fun. But I would be happier if I wasn't so badly setup for PvP



Pardon my sudden hostility, Its times like these we need to keep on our guards because things already are fragile as it is, so many postings tonight surrounded around this issue, and its a ticking time bomb, I just hope the blood stops being spilt so that we dont attract more wolves than there are sheep here. I think some of the dynamics are falling apart and someone needs something to yell about to start a reaction. I can only hope that as time goes on that people start coming to their senses.
Eebi
Perkone
Caldari State
#79 - 2011-11-11 14:10:21 UTC
You can't control people in how they want to play this game, simple as that.

Everyone is here to have fun, they way people have fun differs.

Some people don't wanna get faced with PvP, so they simply don't go to low/nullsec.

You change empire to make it more of a PvP zone, like removing concord will simply make the empire people quit.
You change null/low sec to make it less of a risk to get into pvp situations and people living there will quit.

That said however, it might be worth looking into something that makes low/nullsec more attractive and make empire less attractive.

To give an example, let concord venture into low/nullsec and protect random systems, while at the same time concord disappears in some empire systems.
Zebb Eriker
Doomheim
#80 - 2011-11-11 14:14:07 UTC
I second that. Could be that one sector improves its security status for a brief period of time and then when conconrd leaves, it slowly becomes the rat infested area it once was. Just saying.