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Why hi sec players will NOT move into low or null no matter how much you cry about it.

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Florestan Bronstein
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#41 - 2011-11-11 10:47:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Florestan Bronstein
Gilbaron wrote:
so, how about building and creating something in 00 ?

to be fair the only space that has been somewhat stable over the last few years is the russian east.

"creating something in 0.0" anywhere else means your creation will most likely be dust within a year, no matter how much personal effort you put into it.

Even if you manage to defend your sandcastle from the other kids - a few rainy days and it is gone.


edit: The only somewhat stable creation in 0.0 is your own corporation - a corporation under good leadership can persist even when all the larger structures crumble and it will always find a new home.
Avoid alliances and coalitions like the CFC, develop a strong sense of corporate culture, stay in contact with former members, friends, ... in other parts of the political universe and know when to push the evac button (and how hard to push it when you do). Alliances, coalitions, space, assets, ... are all just a face on the water.
Opertone
State War Academy
Caldari State
#42 - 2011-11-11 10:54:35 UTC
no ****, no Sherlock...

If low sec payed like 20 mill per rock and 100 mill bounty officers, you'd have Golden Rush and Alaska fever, Mafia and trafficking of illegal stuff.

Low sec doesn't pay. But it is open. Low sec is barren, it offers shortcuts and very few good plexes.

Null sec is occupied and guarded. If you are not blue, military will shoot you on sight. This is how null sec works.




Now why do I go to low sec? And I can't pass through null border, why do that?

This post sums up why the 'best' work with DCM inc.

WARP DRIVE makes eve boring

really - add warping align time 300% on gun aggression and eve becomes great again
Elson Tamar
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#43 - 2011-11-11 11:21:52 UTC
I'm allegedly a carebear and i felt this way about null and low. I still feel the same way about null as it seems that you do need to be part of a large corp or alliance to survive down there, however lowsec is different.
If you are willing to chat, give a GF and make friends there you can spend time down there and have good fun. Sure its not an ISK tap, but it is a good laugh with some very trustworthy pirates who will stick to their word and not grief you if you talk to them and occasionally give em some pvp. Low sec is barren and very quite day time and early evening uk, so i suggest you give it a go.
You might loose some ships, insure em and fit from loot, you might get podded, so what you can afford it really. If your flying a tech 2 battleship, dont come down in it, bring somthing cheaper.
Low sec is full of cool people who will teach you the ropes of PVP, because they want people to pew.

Give it a go, you might enjoy it, im off to get a thorax blown up again :)
Florestan Bronstein
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#44 - 2011-11-11 11:30:42 UTC
Shadow Lord77 wrote:
When Hilmar and the rest of CCP designed Eve. They designed it with high-sec in mind..

in the beginning there was Enelaise...

and no CONCORD.
Gerald Taric
NEO DYNAMICS
#45 - 2011-11-11 11:38:38 UTC
I don't care someone calling me a "care bear". I know, what i really am, and what i want. Bear

Everything i want at this point of time can be archived in empire space or wormhole space. Seeking the same in lowsec/nullsec space just adds a "risk component" to it. No additional benefit balancing the risk. Therefore ... why should i enter low-/nullsec now? Last time i did it in order to have a shorter way to my destination, this ended up in the loss of my ship: The try to save 10 Minutes of flight time costs me - let me estimate - two evenings of play time to regain the ISK lost. => Bad balance of risk/profit.

Add something to low/null-sec i probably desperately want. Then i might consider entering low/null-sec. The balance of risk/profit must be establised.

Maybe there's something i still have no knowledge about (EVE is very complex), but today ... i have no reason to enter that areas. Just in order to be a sheep? - Please look elsewhere for sheeps. Thank you.
Adunh Slavy
#46 - 2011-11-11 11:44:19 UTC
Krios Ahzek wrote:

So you're saying that PVP is more repetitive and mind numbingly boring than mining, manufacturing and trading?



That includes sitting at a gate camp for a few hours listening to amature military officer wanna bes, right?

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt
Elric Astrius
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#47 - 2011-11-11 11:52:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Elric Astrius
Gerald Taric wrote:
I don't care someone calling me a "care bear". I know, what i really am, and what i want. Bear

Maybe there's something i still have no knowledge about (EVE is very complex), but today ... i have no reason to enter that areas. Just in order to be a sheep? - Please look elsewhere for sheeps. Thank you.




Honestly I feel for you and the OP about what is going on here, constantly I am seeing myself having to share these opinions over and over again. It seems a few more posters like yourself have joined into the fray and agree with this concept, we may be known as "carebears" or as people who are blissfully unaware of what benefit nullsec has for us, as you stated previously what is there out there for us than to be "lambs to the slaughter" as the cliche goes, and i must agree... If I really wanted to get neck deep in coldblood I will enlist in the armed services but what makes me fearful the most is this...whats preventing some players from going down the street to the gun store and picking up a .45 magnum and just shooting the clerk between the eyes. I mean seriously people this is a GAME if you want to get your ya-ya's out then do it but dont gloat about it or whine that things arent to your liking this isnt the bank of england we cant shell out money like its ole homes week. EVE is (once again) meant for everyone and really I agree Gerald completely, your posting speaks the truth through i edited it down to fit the perspective i used, i liked what you said and honestly people need to just "Grow up"

Serene, Good going girl! you tell them, maybe the more of us who use our voice the more we can drown out the pitfiul tears of the elite.. and perhaps we can reclaim new eden for its true purpose!. For those who disagree with us, either support your home team or get the **** out of the stadium... That is all...
MatrixSkye Mk2
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#48 - 2011-11-11 12:03:18 UTC
Serene Repose wrote:
Have you ever considered the reason most people don't go into null or low sec is because you're out there? This may be hard to believe, and it isn't meant as an insult. If your idea of "play" is destroying things, including the efforts and aspirations of other people, and you're unhappy with null and low sec because there's just not enough people out there to get your ya yas out, it may be highly likely the problem is with you, not the mechanics of the game.

The reason I say this is this issue of null/low/hi sec keeps getting tossed around, but the cogent point about why players aren't encouraged with the idea of leaving hi sec specifically isn't really covered adequately, or is so heavily stomped on by the "destructive" players who also can't seem to keep their attitudes confined to their playing "styles."

So, here it is. The great majority of EVE players do not find constantly fighting with no real opportunity to be creative (rather than destructive) a satisfying, enjoyable or productive way to spend time. This obviates (Google it) itself by the sheer numbers of complaints from the destructive players, and the relative lack of similar complaints by those who are contemptuously labeled "Care Bears." It's even to the point where the destructive minority is urging CCP to change game mechanics to force the productive players into their arena so they may be supplied with a steady stream of victims.

Oddly enough, this disdain for a destructive gaming style has not so much to do with cowardice (and the destructive types with some sort of bravery) as it has to do with the mind-numbing repetitiveness of destructive gameplay. Face it. More intelligent, and widely versed people require something a bit more intricate than pew pew to attract their interest. Self-imagined thugs, however, need only to kick a hole in something to get their titillating giggles out. The adrenalin rush is okay. The satisfaction of seeing an intricately planned and well-executed creation reach fruition is much, much better.

As long as the majority of players see null and low sec as a sucker's bet populated only by those that intend to destroy everything creative players build, just to provide yucks for a minority of vocal (putting it nicely) vandals you will NOT see a major migration of hi sec players into low or null sec. Funny thing about intelligent people. They aren't stupid.

Read it and weep.




Well written, Serene. I've always maintained that what keeps players out of lo/null sec is the dwellers of these areas themselves. Their attitude. They complain when their areas are devoid of population. But once someone does show up they blob/gank them, provoke "tears", laugh, and then request they go back to hi sec. Then it's back to incessant whining and complaining that no one wants to play with them. Rinse and repeat.

Successfully doinitwrong™ since 2006.
Elric Astrius
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#49 - 2011-11-11 12:12:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Elric Astrius
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:
Well written, Serene. I've always maintained that what keeps players out of lo/null sec is the dwellers of these areas themselves. Their attitude. They complain when their areas are devoid of population. But once someone does show up they blob/gank them, provoke "tears", laugh, and then request they go back to hi sec. Then it's back to incessant whining and complaining that no one wants to play with them. Rinse and repeat.


The sad thing about this is they wont ever stop... and the idiocracy begins another vicious cycle, all we can do is try to make CCP more aware that we arent supposed to be babysitters in space... We are supposed to enjoy ourselves, but honestly if they want us in lowsec so badly why dont they spend the next 3-5 years just sitting in their stations until we are good and ready and learn to chill out.. but of course that wont happen. I may of been blunt before, but really sometimes being the babysitter just gets tiring and you know what.. We may not be getting paid for it but uniting together for a common purpose really shows where the real community is.. and its not with the PVP crowd. We arent as sadistic nor are we the ones who will ever complain as much as they do... Honestly if it wasnt for the "carebears" and the "PvE" support that EVE has my life here would of been hell but because we got a good ratio of PvE players it has certainly made my life here easier and you know what.. I may be learning Covert ops to go into a WH with my corp but i am enjoying the quiet nights myself in the station or mission running while listening to my music and being there for my "family" Bear so carebear... yes i am... and if not being a carebear means neglecting my partner and our pets (our kids) then I am sorry youd have to stick a knife in my back and drag my dead body to it ...
Zebb Eriker
Doomheim
#50 - 2011-11-11 12:12:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Zebb Eriker
Maybe nullsec needs a little a Concord Raid from time to time to clean things up? Just like in real life, if you become bad enough, eventually the government will try to kill you. I don't know how it works. I never go, because I've been podded many times and I just got sick of it. I just want to enjoy the game and make some isk until I can loose some ships without crying about them.
Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#51 - 2011-11-11 12:19:20 UTC
one thing capitalism ...

Once players become "social" player on the field of socialism. Creating for greater good, building an empire with no real income to their wallets but just to feel "i was there, when it all started, i helped build the empire, i watched it crumble, and i am back at high sec bored to hell"

Its all in the attitude of players. Also its kind of hard for few people to establish anything in low/null sec. cause if they try they gonna be "suprised" by superblob, because thats what major players which lost most of their sovereignty do now and then. Until something changes and they get opportunity to dissband their opponent before striking them down.
Russell Casey
Doomheim
#52 - 2011-11-11 12:19:44 UTC
Zagdul wrote:
Naw... it's the mechanics of the game.

1. Sov structures = too much HP and nobody wants to grind through the timers + stations plus HP of the 3 reinforcement timers you have to wait for.

2. Supercaps.

3. Null has no perks or bonuses. After the sanctum nerf, all the "bears" found it easier and more rewarding to grind incursions or lvl4's in empire so they left.


Definitely mechanics dude.

So, we're bored and mad and gonna take it out on you.


Pretty much this. CCP should just remove isk payouts from missions/rats and be done with the whole "highsec vs. nullsec" income war. Make ISK what it should be: a currency used to buy stuff and exchange with other players. Rats can still make loot/salvage and give standings, and missions can still reward loyalty points, but EVE should be about controlling goods and resources, not money-trees.
AlleyKat
The Unwanted.
#53 - 2011-11-11 12:21:09 UTC
I always believed the design of the map was poorly thought out in terms of high/low/null and the various empirical controls.

I know it's too late, but I drew something to illustrate the point:

EVE Security systems

AK

This space for rent.
Alexandra Alt
Doomheim
#54 - 2011-11-11 12:25:32 UTC
The funny thing is the lack of coherence many have (mostly null sec apologists).

In order to dwell into null sec many preach on the lines of 'get in a good corp' or 'find some friends' basically, have someone you trust to help you get down there, in the other hand we constantly hear tales of recruitment scams (high as of late) and other kind of scams which happen mainly on new people (the experienced ones won't fall for it easily), most likely most of the current high sec dwellers, resulting directly in not trusting anything ever be it person/player or entity/corp thus remaining locked down in high sec.

In the other hand, many null sec smack talk revolves around carebearing, enticing people to get back to high sec and other similar talk that in the end I'm pretty sure many just give up, and really get back to high sec, and they end up fighting rats, in gates, while camping them.

There's a big campaign of certain CSM to promote what they perceive to be the crux of eve online as the scamming, the treason, the deceiving, yet they don't realize that although it is a good source for publicity it is not a good practice when the new player get's to be in the other end of such practices, resulting directly in either a constant fear of everything EvE being closed down in the safest places of space, or a downright quit of the game. Such practices would be best take on experienced and established capsuleers when the hurt does not lead directly to a state of apathy or simply giving up, but to a state of revenge and payback, but then, they aren't an easy prey, the noob player is, and this noob player is obviously a high sec carebear for the biggest part of his early game time unless he has already good friends in game that were met outside through other means, since doing it so in game is like a russian roulette.

Mind you, I've been in null since 2M SP, I have right now 50M, and it still pisses the **** out of me many things in null (I live there still), I'm not 20 years old, I have a life, I value my life more than EvE, yet I do like to play EvE in my spare time, I don't accept to be forced on CTA's, or fullfill objectives, I don't care, those who can afford to do so fine for them, I do participate and help in anything I can whenever I can, and I realize there is little or no room for actual casual players in the game except for high sec, next probably low sec being the pvp casual heaven imo, and then wormholes, null sec is the hardcore place to be, but, when all hardcore players are either NAP'ed together or in the same alliance well, it kinda get's boring doesn't it ?

So, instead of all bashing in players who made the choice to play the game the way they want to, why don't you null sec players wanting GF's assess better your blues/NAP's etc in order to generate more targets and have fun ?

Best regards,
Maxpie
MUSE LLP
#55 - 2011-11-11 12:33:41 UTC
As someone who's lived in high-sec, low-sec, null and wh's, in my opinion null is too boring. Really, what do you do there? Rat, fly around in a gang, sit on a gate in a gang...not much else. Also, people there seem to be obsessed with having you on voice comms at all times, but to be honest, I don't much want to hear your favorite song or hear about what your cat did.

There's much more to do in high-sec. Also, I can generally log off whenever I want without effecting anyone else. If I only have a half hour, it's ok in high-sec. In null, I may as well not even log on. I can completely understand why some people are not interested in living in null or low and I see nothing wrong with their reasons. In fact, I think for many of those people it's not about getting your ship blown up, it's more the fact that it's just not as fun for them.

No good deed goes unpunished
Ptraci
3 R Corporation
#56 - 2011-11-11 12:35:54 UTC
Zagdul wrote:


Like level 4's and incursions... amirite?


Yeah. It's not as good isk as a lot of people would say (I can only speak for lvl 4's, never done incursions myself), but it's relatively risk free. So it's a grind. Some people just like to mindlessly grind with their time, or grind faction/npc corp standing, etc. Of course it's not the real isk faucet. Everyone knows that that is located in w-space anoms.

But care-bears still get ninja-looted, and if you've ever had some idiot in a rifter show up and grab your storyline mission critical item for the lulz (no wait, it's not just a rifter its his other 5 buddies with their fingers on the button to warp in the minute you take that can back), you'll realize that care-bearing isn't without its problems. You have a conflict forced on you when you are outnumbered and in a mission-fit ship, or throw away the mission (and the other 16 missions it took you to get it) and the faction standing gain.

Please don't confuse this for tears - I'm merely pointing out that there is a downside to being a care-bear, you're never in the right ship and you never have enough friends. So it balances out.

On the other hand everyone knows how easy it is to make money in incursions. If there's now a standardized algorithm/ship fit/fleet composition to let people do incursions in their sleep, then CCP must address this. Missions take a crapload of time on your own - more if you salvage. Really all I manage to get is around 25-30M an hour. I've heard incursions netting 100+M an hour. If this is true, then I agree that it's a big problem.
Elric Astrius
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#57 - 2011-11-11 12:36:07 UTC
Alexandra Alt wrote:
The funny thing is the lack of coherence many have (mostly null sec apologists).

In order to dwell into null sec many preach on the lines of 'get in a good corp' or 'find some friends' basically, have someone you trust to help you get down there, in the other hand we constantly hear tales of recruitment scams (high as of late) and other kind of scams which happen mainly on new people (the experienced ones won't fall for it easily), most likely most of the current high sec dwellers, resulting directly in not trusting anything ever be it person/player or entity/corp thus remaining locked down in high sec.

In the other hand, many null sec smack talk revolves around carebearing, enticing people to get back to high sec and other similar talk that in the end I'm pretty sure many just give up, and really get back to high sec, and they end up fighting rats, in gates, while camping them.

There's a big campaign of certain CSM to promote what they perceive to be the crux of eve online as the scamming, the treason, the deceiving, yet they don't realize that although it is a good source for publicity it is not a good practice when the new player get's to be in the other end of such practices, resulting directly in either a constant fear of everything EvE being closed down in the safest places of space, or a downright quit of the game. Such practices would be best take on experienced and established capsuleers when the hurt does not lead directly to a state of apathy or simply giving up, but to a state of revenge and payback, but then, they aren't an easy prey, the noob player is, and this noob player is obviously a high sec carebear for the biggest part of his early game time unless he has already good friends in game that were met outside through other means, since doing it so in game is like a russian roulette.

Mind you, I've been in null since 2M SP, I have right now 50M, and it still pisses the **** out of me many things in null (I live there still), I'm not 20 years old, I have a life, I value my life more than EvE, yet I do like to play EvE in my spare time, I don't accept to be forced on CTA's, or fullfill objectives, I don't care, those who can afford to do so fine for them, I do participate and help in anything I can whenever I can, and I realize there is little or no room for actual casual players in the game except for high sec, next probably low sec being the pvp casual heaven imo, and then wormholes, null sec is the hardcore place to be, but, when all hardcore players are either NAP'ed together or in the same alliance well, it kinda get's boring doesn't it ?

So, instead of all bashing in players who made the choice to play the game the way they want to, why don't you null sec players wanting GF's assess better your blues/NAP's etc in order to generate more targets and have fun ?

Best regards,



Well said Alexandra, I think many miss the true point here.. I may be 27 but i do know a few things about life that most never got the chance to understand when they were younger.. Perhaps being raised by my grandparents when i was 4 until now was a blessing because i saw things as the way it was and how the world came to be and how now EVE is becoming a gathering place for diversity but at the same time epitomized by the biggots who think that killing in coldblood is the only way to go... This is why people like myself got scared back in 2006 and ran away... I should of probably stayed and fought these ******* but of course I personally didnt have the backbone i do now. Life is always going to be more important than EVE but those who sit there saying that PVP and low sec is the only place where it all begins then I am sorry but check yourself into a mental hospital because honestly something is seriously wrong with people. There is an aspect of EVE which is undefined in any promotion of it.. Its called the "unknown" there are those of us who spend "YEARS" not knowing what we wand and spend even longer finding a corp or whatever the reason is... Bottom line is we are here to enjoy ourselves you PVP biggots just happen to be sharing this space with us. Now this isnt to say the game probably isnt 75% pvp in some fashion but you know what let us find that out on our own and not have our lives being ruled like we are in some sort of dictatorship.. Just because 0.0 space is huge doesnt give anyone the right to dictate the actions of us who decide to stay in high sec for as long as it takes.

Again well written Alexandra!.
Swordfingers
The Swollen Horse Society
#58 - 2011-11-11 12:36:59 UTC
I too agree that it's mainly the attitude of null dwellers. The big alliances are successful because they are full of nolifers who made eve their work. Most of the supposedly mature playerbase of eve simply doesn't have the time or mood to log on fight in a CTA for some sucker and then log off without doing anything productive. People want a GAME not a WORK, we get enought of it in real life and come here to have some "me time" and fun and null certainly doesn't provide that.
Ptraci
3 R Corporation
#59 - 2011-11-11 12:44:45 UTC
Swordfingers wrote:
I too agree that it's mainly the attitude of null dwellers. The big alliances are successful because they are full of nolifers who made eve their work. Most of the supposedly mature playerbase of eve simply doesn't have the time or mood to log on fight in a CTA for some sucker and then log off without doing anything productive. People want a GAME not a WORK, we get enought of it in real life and come here to have some "me time" and fun and null certainly doesn't provide that.


I agree. This has been said millions of times on these forums, but I guess we have to say it one...more...time:

Different people play EVE for different reasons. Different people have fun in different ways. Forcing people to play YOUR way when YOU want may be fun for you, but not necessarily for the other person. No one likes to be pushed into anything. For that we have real life.
Elric Astrius
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#60 - 2011-11-11 12:51:57 UTC
Ptraci wrote:
Swordfingers wrote:
I too agree that it's mainly the attitude of null dwellers. The big alliances are successful because they are full of nolifers who made eve their work. Most of the supposedly mature playerbase of eve simply doesn't have the time or mood to log on fight in a CTA for some sucker and then log off without doing anything productive. People want a GAME not a WORK, we get enought of it in real life and come here to have some "me time" and fun and null certainly doesn't provide that.


I agree. This has been said millions of times on these forums, but I guess we have to say it one...more...time:

Different people play EVE for different reasons. Different people have fun in different ways. Forcing people to play YOUR way when YOU want may be fun for you, but not necessarily for the other person. No one likes to be pushed into anything. For that we have real life.



yes and i made a similar posting with a little more umph on the other thread dedicated to changes in this game and they threw a shitstorm at the poster because her ideas were different, I got tired of reading how much they condemned her so i called them out.... If anything Ptraci I think the more we make noise the more someone will listen and CCP will end up doing something about it.. these PVP babies need to stop crying and asking for their bottles, they need to cut the apron strings once and for all lol