EVE General Discussion

I"m really not to sure why people think null sec players are trying to force high sec citizens into null sec.

If it's because an alliance has targeted you for their own reasons, you're over reacting a bit.

Most null sec citizens spend the majority of their time fighting each other, not putting pressure on high sec. Which is probably a good thing. If the bulk of the null sec players decided it was time to make the population of high sec miserable (for some mythical reason) and devoted their considerable resources to that end, you would welcome the time when an occasional Hulk or Incursion runner was the only likely target.

If you don't enjoy working with a team as some have stated, if you don't believe that a couple of hours here and there would be tolerated (lol), then stay where you are at.

Nobody cares.

Just remember that old adage that EVE strives for (with wildly varying degree's of success), the greater the risk the greater the reward. If you want completely casual game play, don't expect to keep earning hard core income.

One way to do that is to make certain resources ONLY available in low sec. Not a very popular option, but it would be the most direct method of achieving this. Prices for that resource would sky rocket, hardy souls would take advantage of it, and eventually a median level would be achieved.

SOME people may have a price for some things that all the money in the world would not be able to match.

Or at least, most of them like to think they do as long as they don't really believe an attractive enough opportunity could present itself, realistically.
In most cases they're lying to themselves, but it's a healthy delusion. I mean, would you really want to consider getting paid 10 million dollars for a 5-minute scene and still remain adamant about not doing it ? What if the incentive is not money, but saving your family's life ? Would you not sacrifice your pride for the life of all the people you know AND a large cash payment ?
Not so simple anymore, is it ?

OTHER people will do it for nearly free.

It's all bell curves and shades of gray, not all clear-cut or just black and white.

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Just because YOU wouldn't do activity X for amount Y doesn't mean NOBODY ELSE would do it.
As long as there's demand for it, at a certain price, somebody will eventually be willing to do it.
And the higher the reward, the more people will do it.
It doesn't really matter WHO moves to lowsec, it mainly matters HOW MANY move to lowsec.
And the amount depends on the reward level.

Sure, the graph is not linear, it might not even be all that regular-shaped, it might have heavy time delays... but fact remains, the more rewarding an area is, the more people end up going there, and it's not just an opinion, it's a FACT, proven time and time again even in real-life, not just games.

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Let the uncompromising, completely risk-averse 2% of the bell curve that would never consider leaving their NPC corp and highsec remain there, nobody gives a fudge about it as long as fiddling with the rewards could get up to 98% of the population in any desired area.
It's only about ramping rewards high enough so that EVENTUALLY enough people go there. And that's all there is to it.

The tricky part comes in determining HOW MANY people you want there and HOW SOON you want them there, then deciding whether you can stomach the economic changes caused by the shifts in rewards necessary to accomplish said goal.

Thanks for posting here. Your post are always reasonable and you speak the truth. I would like to see a reward boost in low sec too.

I just got back from 0.0 with a cargo space full of expensive drone goo.

Sometimes I come back with a mix of exploration stuff, sleeper goo, but I didn't get time to play much these last few months.

The expedition into 0.0 took roughly a month.

I used wormholes, and didn't have to pay more $$ for a "scout alt", nor deal with gank pipelines that, no matter how good you are at making bookmarks, you still get caught in eventually - the real good bubblers are on those pipelines.

I spent a few weeks bouncing around low class systems that my exploration ship can solo, then ended up in a null pocket that comprised a dead end off a serious gank pipeline in the curse region. I found a WH that put me on the other side of 0.0 - what looked like 60 jumps, into some russkie-controlled region full of drones. The first place was deserted, having been there a while and not seeing anybody else. The second had some Russian alliance guy alone in a Wyvern (a Wyvern, alone, out there... there was once a time when people would come in droves just to gank such a target - no wonder they are being nerfed out of PWNmobile status). After being there for a while, I found a WH that led to lowsec, but just two jumps from Caldari high sec 21 jumps from my home base.

If I did this the "conventional way", meaning occasionally pad someones killboard with my ships, I would lose how many?

Since this is a PVP game, don't I have the right to not want my ships on someone else's killboard?


Again, if you want things to change, there has to be a way to put an end, any kind of end, to these gank pipelines. I think the most game-changing way would be to let all ships to system-to-system dialed in hyperwarp. I think it's something that the leet 0.0 PVPers who say they want more targets can use to put their ISK where their keyboards have been. Most of 0.0 sits safely behind the Great Wall of Carebear, much of it gank pipelines and bubble camps.


If I hear one "oh, so you want people to go anywhere?" then all that means to me is that yes, there are people who claim that highsec should be nerfed into oblivion, but only want people to come out to their neck of the woods on the terms and wishes of those already there: as renters, cannon fodder, or targets.

The ship I use is a gimped exploration fit and it's been in service since spring of 2009. One thing and one thing only has kept it alive and it's spent a lot of time in WH space and 0.0: stay away from those gank pipelines. Period. I will probably loose it eventually, almost lost it to drones actually and came back from 0.0 via wormhole on this last trip with half structure - but I know there are good bubble camps, and there are bad ones, and I don't care the reason for it, if it's all about PVP, then I can say that I am winning in not getting on someone else's killboard but still accomplishing my missions.

The mechanics of gates, blobs, and bubbles comprises the Great Wall of Carebear and no matter what happens, if that does not change, this issue will not go away. Either CCP has to set us all free of these mechanics, in spite of the tears of the nullbears, or nothing changes.

Its not even close.

People who don't want to pvp don't want to pvp. Multiplying by zero always nets zero. Zero interest in pvp * 100 = zero.

Akitas formula assumes that the "worth doing factor" is either a positive integer, or can be increased to a positive integer on people's "graphs". For many people, "pvp always on zones" will never ever ever ever net a positive number for this "worth doing factor".

That is entirely true for people that simply will not take the chance of engaging in combat oriented PVP.

But Akita is maintaining that a large number of people who will not go to Low Sec do so simply because there is not enough profit in it to justify the losses they might incur there compared to high sec.

I have no doubt that both types of players are plentiful in high sec, perhaps even more than the percent of high sec population that are nothing more than alts of players whose mains live in low or null.

It would make a very interesting poll, if one could be taken without cheating.

I have no characters or alts that live in Low or Null sec, but I would spend time in low/null sec if I could make significantly more ISK there.

I have no characters or alts that live in Low or Null sec, and I would not enter low/null sec regardless of earnings potential.

I have characters that live in both low/null sec and high sec.

I have no characters that live in high sec.

I don't care either way, I live in a worm hole.

Yeah can you imagine what he did before WH space?

Firstly Akita T thank you for making this whole thread with intellegent posting. The fact of the matter is that many people already find lowsec and nullsec worth running industry in. Countless cloaky transports traverse lowsec to highsec traffic areas just to get at a slightly better yield. This will change soon but then the PI alts will just change tactics and think of another way to get that slightly higher yield.

As far as increasing incentives for lowsec, the booster market is about to explode, already boosters have increased to more than 10x there price and in somecases they are still rising. Pirates and Nullsec fleets will have an undying need for boosters and will pay to get them. I know I'm not going to miss out on this, there is so much isk to be made.

Winter is Coming

As a side note to the poster and the survey, I have alts that live in WH, Null, Low, and high security space ranging from fragate only PVP, Capital Fleets, industry, mining, and pure market toon sitting in a hub.

I suggest to the people that are to scared to try something that seems scarry, to make an alt give him 10 combat frigates and try to take on the world. It won't hurt you at all, infact just go live in lowsec for 3 weeks on a trial account and experience it before you judge it.

You've never played the Civilization series then? (which covers both of the above styles and more).

Thankfully Eve covers more than one style of game play. Though there are some personality types who think that their style of play should be the only way.

Although the OP's post has a fair point, it is biased towards pacifism, and tbh is trolling PVPers by suggesting that they are stupid thugs. It does require intelligence to properly fit a ship and use good tactics to make a kill.

All the posts intellectualising for and against attracting people to low/null sec have a basic fundamental theme, the basic feeling of fear. Fear of losing something, be it their pride, their ship, their ISK, their safety, their comfort, etc.

Some people are not comfortable with being in a constant state of alert and it can be stressful to some, while others either thrive on it or are completely at ease with it. People have to face fear and step out of their comfort zone, but as we all know from our real life experiences that it is not easy. But this is a game, it should be easy to face fear, no? heh, you underestimate how powerful the subconscious can be...

There are predators in this world and there are those who fear them.

EDIT: bah, mod locked the other thread.