Wormholes

Upgrade structures would never work, because my US TZ group would just roll around shooting all the EU TZ wormholers upgrade structures. Plus, anything that makes wormhole ISK more is generally a bad idea.



Again, I don't want someone to cry over the damage, otherwise the huge groups would run around doing it to everyone they found for the tears it creates.

I want something with a short timer on it that stays within the timezone, as well as the timezone I engage it. Two hour timer, four hours of minor punishment seems about right to me. I don't really care what the carrot is honestly. I want something I anchor that gives someone a small chunk of time to rally the troops and organize up their fleet and gives both sides a timer as to when this fight happens.



I have never seen more than ten in my corp's fleets. It's usually five or less. I don't really care about the 40 man fleets, there's very little that a 40 man fleet can do to get six guys to come out and fight. I want the ten people with logi who are sitting in their POS to fight my five with local tanks in their system.



Structures don't create fights. Nope, never. No timer in EVE has EVER created a fight. It just doesn't happen.

Structures have always created fights in EVE. Any RF timer creates a time where people can say, I need to be online for THAT. In K-space, if you want to fight a group that's near you, you go RF one of their towers, then come back in a day and change. Chances are, unless you have stupidly high overwhelming numbers, you'll get a fight. For K-space, this isn't much work. You light a cyno, pew for a bit, then post the timer somewhere to get people's attention.

In W-space that's not possible, since shooting a tower requires seeding caps or having a lot of subcaps. It's an investment that's more significant than what it is in K-space. Any of the current timers in EVE when placed in W-space are significant investments to show up for, because whatever wormhole you came in through will be gone before the tower/POCO comes out of RF.

Hitting a tower in K-space hurts the wallet, it's usually minor damage to the income. Hitting a tower in W-space means trying to take someone's home, it's two very different approaches. I want to be able to hurt someone without kicking them out of their space.

so.... what youre saying is that making black holes (and apparently pulsars?!?!) into vanilla WHs would add content and conflict?
right, because there arent any empty vanilla WHs that no one's fighting over now...


^this.
people who arent going to defend their home, arent going to defend their home even if you add a mod that brings a ccp employee around to their house to kick their dog when it gets shot. it just isnt going to happen.

id say this number is at LEAST the 90% bane stated and on top of that, about another 8% wont fight because the attackers bring 18x their numbers with 7 different alliances and 32 dreads because they want 'gud fights bro!' so there's really very little point in fighting.

bottom line is that shooting someone's POS is a really bad way of getting a fight unless it's a group that would come fight you anyway even if you didnt shoot their POS.
POSs in WHs are only worth shooting if you dont like the person living there or you want the system.

Would be really cool if these were HICtor bubble scripts, maybe a script for each effect type, plus a no effect script.

No. Next idea?

what the **** is the point of there BEING any WH effects if you can just turn them off at will???
stop being such a nancy and go buy a shield ship.

That was not directed at you
I've never actually heard of your corp before this thread, so I doubt we have ever came across each other in w-space before

Is that you alone or did you bring some alts along too?

Also, have a script version to induce effects... Oh man, a wrench that could create. Sounds fun.

Why Live in Wormhole Space:

I think everyone needs to sit down and assess WHY they live in Wormhole space. It's the freedom, the random unknown, the hardship and for many; the ability to self-sovereign. For true Wormhole corps/alliances; we're not held by alliance blocks nor leashed as alliance pets. We have everything at our finger-tips. Industry via planetary interaction, mining ore, huffing gas, running data or relic sites(which aren't worth the time investment), and Ghost sites(which are laughable; thank you CCP for not fixing the Wormhole implant so it's actually worth the risk. Good to know the LP Farmers can sell off their implant which is much better than the one we actually have to gather materials for in the most inhospitable environment ingame, yet it's woefully not worth it). We have PVE with Sleeper sites(which I think it would be nice if all of them could randomly spawn the next wave, to kill the monotony. I think adding random spawns would be great aswell; the same number of frigates, cruisers and battleships; but the TYPES should be randomly chosen each wave); and the ever present fear of PVP that can jump out and grab you no matter what you're doing.

If you're a small corp, or a hived Wormhole alliance; or even an alliance that 'seeds' multiple Wormholes with various sized corporations. The fact remains that you're part of a community that has chosen self-reign. Embrace the fundamentals of why we are out here.

When I hear talk of adding an extra static; expecially to known space, I can't help but feel like those that want such easy access back to known space should just live there. This goes for anyone who wants to easily mass down holes by merely 'firing' mass into it. You're defeating the mystery and the excitement of what it means to live in Wormhole space. You want a more 'scientific method' for massing holes? You check the maximum jump mass of the hole you want to crush, then you check the maximum mass that hole can possibly have. Then you check the mass of whatever ships you intend to use to 'crush' the hole.

If you have a 2bil maximum mass hole; you need to jump battleships through and watch for the mass downs. If you're new to all this, there are guides that tell you roughly what percentage of allowable mass is allowed until the hole will 'crush'. You know how TNC used to do it? With calculators. How much more 'scientific' do you want to do it? Trial and error; scientific method. You try and try and try, until you figure it out. Or you look around the forums and figure out a standard way that others use and see if it works best for you.

When we lose a ship or a pilot to a 'bad crush', it's rare, but it happens. Do we mind? Not really; because thats part of the enjoyment of living here. There's a risk in something as simple as closing the front or back doors to your home(or anywhere along the chain that you choose to crush). Don't cheapen that risk by merely 'firing mass' into a wormhole. If you want to live out here and reap the rewards, endure the risks or go back to known space where the gate system never fails you.

Conflict Drivers: This falls squarely on CCP's shoulders; because our current 'conflict drivers' aren't worth much at the moment. We don't fight over sovereignty, and I personally don't care to burn someone else's system to the ground unless they're just a 'farming corp'.(Check all their killboards, look for locations of their kills/losses. If they have next to no kills/losses in wormhole space but have lived in Wormhole space for awhile; they're most likely farmers.) Not everyone comes out to fight, it's not always that the stars align that you have the numbers to match the enemy fleet, and if you don't have the intel you're certainly not going to throw five guys out onto three who are sitting on a wormhole; more often than not there are fifteen more sitting on the other side just waiting for the bait to be taken. I don't encourage anyone here or in EVE to do 'stupid pvp'. If you're not sure, be safe. If you're feeling squirrely; give it a try and have a go. Fly what you can afford and realise that everyone is going to lose ships and get popped. Live by the motto "Did you learn something? Did you have fun?" If the answer is yes to either; then you're on the right track.

I personally see no real point in a 'market hub' for trading. We actively kill BLUES in wormhole space; the only reprieve they get is the honor-bound agreement that we will never siege nor assist in sieging their system(s)/attacking their structures. But a 'market hub' for us would just look like bait. When someone roles into our systems; we look to assess and engage, not have trade. However, that's because we are very self-sufficient; if we need anything we go and get it ourselves; whether that means huffing the gas, mining the rock, production or having a 'Walmart Night' and hitting known space.

Wormhole Effects: Wormhole space has variant effects, depending on the system you're in. Pulsar, Blackhole, etc. I think any modules that nullify those effects to just be an easy way of saying "lets just ignore the game mechanics and change the rules". It takes the tactics out of where and when you engage your enemy, aswell as what ships you'll fly into a fight. If you're willing to have something like that in play, then why have the wormhole effects to begin with?

Before I close this up; just acknowledge that the risks of living out here are what make it great. I love seeing other corporations of all sizes deciding to live in wormhole space and learn how it works. From the new Wormhole dwellers that get locked out of their first 'home system', to the industrialists with teeth that will sit 10-15 in retrievers and at the first sign of a k162; they flood back to the tower and gear up to scan and have combat ships ready.

To all of you, I say: Persist and Endure.

We already have a tonne of systems that can only be accessed through wormholes. Their system names all start with J and they're half empty already.