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A bank with benefits

Author
Scion Lex
United Mining and Hauling Inc
The Initiative.
#21 - 2014-03-12 01:20:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Scion Lex
TL;DR

To the OP...your barking up the wrong tree. IF your idea was valid and could work at all you would be doing it privately. After operating privately for a few years you might consider going public...though I have no idea why. This kind of work is time consuming and has enough headaches as it is. The only real return is the relationships you have with your clients, who should also be your friends. Personally, I don't work for strangers. There is no incentive in it. If you can't make it fly on your own, with you own contacts then you won't make it fly with the public. Even if you do the likely-hood of you biting off more than you can chew and burning out are pretty high. Whether you fail due to being over worked, lack of time or lack of integrity it still translates to you being a scam.

LEX ///
Far Wanderer
The New Bank of Far
#22 - 2014-03-12 06:44:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Far Wanderer
Scion Lex wrote:
DR
Obviously.

Scion Lex wrote:
To the OP...your barking up the wrong tree. IF your idea was valid (snip)
Roll

The OP doesn't have an idea, he asked for suggestions, i.e. "what would you like to see in a bank?"

This isn't to say that the turd you dropped in this thread is without merit. Like bits of gold wrapped in poo you did manage to point out there's a potential for burnout in any banking activity and that friends are good starter clients (though it's 100% untrue that only friends make good clients in the long term).

EVE is about risk and about doing what's fun. If the OP wants to collect information about what benefits people might like to see and it turns out there are takers for what he eventually offers, you're in no position to label his efforts a scam.

It's not that hard. Really.

I really am wasting my breath though, when you can avoid questions from Hexxx and RAW23 like that you must have some seriously devoted investors. --Elizabeth Norn

Scion Lex
United Mining and Hauling Inc
The Initiative.
#23 - 2014-03-12 07:11:14 UTC
Attention to detail, hun. My point was that A). before you can bother asking the public what they might want you should try a small scale model. If that had happened half of the responses that were given would have already been answered. Additionally, he wouldn't have even asked in the first place. B) if there are takers (and im positive here would be) what he is really accomplishing is vastly increasing his work load. Additionally, I never called him or his idea a scam. I simply pointed out that if he fails....and he would, it will be labeled a scam. Just like every bank that has came before....they all go the same route. Or perhaps you haven't been around long enough to know that.

Its not that hard. Really
Far Wanderer
The New Bank of Far
#24 - 2014-03-12 07:30:00 UTC
Pickle Solette wrote:
What if someone created a bank that, on top of paying interest, provided you with other benefits such as:

-Increase interest rates over time
I like this idea. It's a way to reward loyalty and to retain customers and their deposits.

Pickle Solette wrote:
-Tiered interest rates
Not sure about this. I would need to know more about the conditions linked to each tier.

Pickle Solette wrote:
-Redeemables like escorts, refining services, etc.
Escorts wouldn't help me, though I wonder if others might could use them. Fielding a fleet of ships seems like a whole lot of work.

Refining, however, is a great idea. Especially if you have perfect skills and good standing. I would guess that capsuleers might not be patient enough to wait a day or so to get maximum minerals, but if it's a perk offering and not a service per se, they might. And they might come to value it.

Pickle Solette wrote:
-Brokerage services; the stock being ore. We have offices in every region and use a certain amount of your investment to buy ore at the lowest available price. We provide you with a daily report on regional prices; you tell us when you want us to sell the ore and we send you the profits.
I would skip the customer notification process and simply fold this idea into your overall profit acquisition strategy.

Simpler is better.

Pickle Solette wrote:
Basically, what would you like to see in a bank?
More perks like your mineral refining idea. Expanded, I'd say any offering that relies on perfect skills related to MFR, Trade, Refining, etc. that you can offer to customers who have a minimum (large) deposit balance in order to keep them around.

On the one hand it seems like it would be a lot of work, but if you kept your customer base small and made additional deals to buy from them whatever it is they're getting as a perk from you, then you can build a stronger (and hopefully more profitable) partnership.

I really am wasting my breath though, when you can avoid questions from Hexxx and RAW23 like that you must have some seriously devoted investors. --Elizabeth Norn

Far Wanderer
The New Bank of Far
#25 - 2014-03-12 08:00:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Far Wanderer
Scion Lex wrote:
Additionally, I never called him or his idea a scam. I simply pointed out that if he fails....and he would, it will be labeled a scam.
If you're convinced he's going to fail, why bother to even post?

That's what bothered me about your statement: it boils down to, "You'll fail. Don't try."

Scion Lex wrote:
Just like every bank that has came before....they all go the same route.
Actually no, they don't.

Scion Lex wrote:
Its not that hard. Really
If the best you can lead with is some form of "everybody knows that..." then degree of difficulty is the least of your problems. Which is to say relying on what passes for the "common wisdom" around here is a bad idea.

For all that, I see that there are things we agree on. We even made some of the same points.

Personally, I hope the OP tries.

If he fails, so what? Maybe he'll fail spectacularly and we'll all read about it. Nothing wrong with that.

I really am wasting my breath though, when you can avoid questions from Hexxx and RAW23 like that you must have some seriously devoted investors. --Elizabeth Norn

Scion Lex
United Mining and Hauling Inc
The Initiative.
#26 - 2014-03-12 08:27:39 UTC
/golfclap
Ester Hughes
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2014-03-12 19:05:53 UTC
Why does anyone respond to the bank thread anymore?

It's very simple, until you can solve the 'what stops me from taking everyones money and biomassing' problem, all the speculation in the world is useless. So far the best solution that has ever come up is tying it to shares in a corporation that holds SOV, and even that isn't stable, since sov disappears often enough.

Then the idea that you can give 5% is absurd on it's own. Here's the thing, banking guesswork aside. 5% is the average you are going to make station trading if you are pants on head ********. That is literally the least you can currently do in Eve. From a gameplay perspective, turning that into a passive ISK activity isn't going to work. IF it does, CCP would be compelled to prevent that, or at least they should. In real life, banks barely offer pips, since it's no risk, insured, and the CEO can't just rob it and leave.

Also, everyone here has a wallet accessable everywhere, instantly, there is a bank already, it's called your wallet. It pays 0% interest, and thats as good and as honest a bank as you're going to find.

So either get CCP to remove instant liquidity and require movement of your wallet, create a mechanic to prevent corptheft from banks wannabes, or ...

/thread

http://eveplex.blogspot.ca/ - station trading in commodities exchange

Koniforous
Tauren Transit
#28 - 2014-03-13 16:52:12 UTC
Ester Hughes wrote:
Why does anyone respond to the bank thread anymore?

It's very simple, until you can solve the 'what stops me from taking everyones money and biomassing' problem, all the speculation in the world is useless. So far the best solution that has ever come up is tying it to shares in a corporation that holds SOV, and even that isn't stable, since sov disappears often enough.

Then the idea that you can give 5% is absurd on it's own. Here's the thing, banking guesswork aside. 5% is the average you are going to make station trading if you are pants on head ********. That is literally the least you can currently do in Eve. From a gameplay perspective, turning that into a passive ISK activity isn't going to work. IF it does, CCP would be compelled to prevent that, or at least they should. In real life, banks barely offer pips, since it's no risk, insured, and the CEO can't just rob it and leave.

Also, everyone here has a wallet accessable everywhere, instantly, there is a bank already, it's called your wallet. It pays 0% interest, and thats as good and as honest a bank as you're going to find.

So either get CCP to remove instant liquidity and require movement of your wallet, create a mechanic to prevent corptheft from banks wannabes, or ...

/thread



Technically, a bank is a collection of funds that connects entities which possess monetary surplus, with those that possess monetary deficiency. They act as a large pool of funds, that lend capital to start-ups and expanding ventures. This is why your assumption that the eve wallet is a bank is incorrect. Yes, banks allow us to transfer money quickly from one person to the next, like the eve wallet, but it has been up to the players (as it should be in the sandbox) to create capital lending institutions and mutual funds to support large community projects. This is why banking (mutual funds, whatever you want to call them) threads continue to pop up.

I believe I have created a nice little system of banking using the shares system, and it has been going very well for my clients and my bank. If you are interested in how it works, please do read about its intricacies in my sig link. There are several fail safes in place, and I believe that the "what stops me from taking everyone's money" problem has already been fixed. The remaining problem is that people don't take advantage of the fix.

The fix is to switch from a fractional reserve banking model (that most banks in the world use), into a full reserve banking model. Whereby 100% of all deposits are backed with a 3rd party. It's simple really. If someone starts a bank, and they have 50b in deposits, they open up a collateral fund with a 3rd party in the amount of 50b. Problem SOLVED.

To address your 5% interest concerns, I am currently making over 5% profit, per transaction, with station trading. Multiple transactions a day. If I can do it, there are people out there making A LOT MORE than I am. Check the Eve-Mogul leaderboards once in a while. It's impressive what some people can turn in just one day. And, I think it makes a 5% interest rate/month a very viable business model. I would, however, consider a 2.5% interest rate, or lower, per month as equally appealing if offered through a bank that used the full reserve banking model.
Batelle
Filthy Peasants
#29 - 2014-03-13 17:02:25 UTC
Koniforous wrote:
The fix is to switch from a fractional reserve banking model (that most banks in the world use), into a full reserve banking model. Whereby 100% of all deposits are backed with a 3rd party. It's simple really. If someone starts a bank, and they have 50b in deposits, they open up a collateral fund with a 3rd party in the amount of 50b. Problem SOLVED.


lol

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.

unidenify
Deaf Armada
Deaf and Daft
#30 - 2014-03-13 18:47:18 UTC
Batelle wrote:
Koniforous wrote:
The fix is to switch from a fractional reserve banking model (that most banks in the world use), into a full reserve banking model. Whereby 100% of all deposits are backed with a 3rd party. It's simple really. If someone starts a bank, and they have 50b in deposits, they open up a collateral fund with a 3rd party in the amount of 50b. Problem SOLVED.


lol


agreed

there are more than just have collateral fund for deposit

Elizabeth Norn
Nornir Research
Nornir Empire
#31 - 2014-03-15 18:35:01 UTC
Koniforous wrote:
I believe I have created a nice little system of banking using the shares system, and it has been going very well for my clients and my bank. If you are interested in how it works, please do read about its intricacies in my sig link. There are several fail safes in place, and I believe that the "what stops me from taking everyone's money" problem has already been fixed. The remaining problem is that people don't take advantage of the fix.

The fix is to switch from a fractional reserve banking model (that most banks in the world use), into a full reserve banking model. Whereby 100% of all deposits are backed with a 3rd party. It's simple really. If someone starts a bank, and they have 50b in deposits, they open up a collateral fund with a 3rd party in the amount of 50b. Problem SOLVED.


Which 3rd party is securing your bank? I couldn't find any information about that in your thread or on your website (which actually said that nothing was secured by a 3rd party). Also what are they holding of yours, ISK or items?
flakeys
Doomheim
#32 - 2014-03-15 20:00:44 UTC
I'll sign up right away once you have a wife with benefits ....

We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.

Koniforous
Tauren Transit
#33 - 2014-03-15 20:05:14 UTC
Elizabeth Norn wrote:
Koniforous wrote:
I believe I have created a nice little system of banking using the shares system, and it has been going very well for my clients and my bank. If you are interested in how it works, please do read about its intricacies in my sig link. There are several fail safes in place, and I believe that the "what stops me from taking everyone's money" problem has already been fixed. The remaining problem is that people don't take advantage of the fix.

The fix is to switch from a fractional reserve banking model (that most banks in the world use), into a full reserve banking model. Whereby 100% of all deposits are backed with a 3rd party. It's simple really. If someone starts a bank, and they have 50b in deposits, they open up a collateral fund with a 3rd party in the amount of 50b. Problem SOLVED.


Which 3rd party is securing your bank? I couldn't find any information about that in your thread or on your website (which actually said that nothing was secured by a 3rd party). Also what are they holding of yours, ISK or items?


Well, I wasn't referring to my bank, Elizabeth. Just banks in general. And I should have clarified, that it should be a trusted and popular 3rd party. As for my bank, it is not backed by a 3rd party. Like my website says. If ever it becomes backed the information on the webpage will be updated. From a personal standpoint, I really like Far Wanderer's self backing, separate wallet division, system. I think if I were to insure my clients' funds it would be within my own corporation. I know that is not appealing to account holders.
Elizabeth Norn
Nornir Research
Nornir Empire
#34 - 2014-03-15 20:33:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Elizabeth Norn
Koniforous wrote:

Well, I wasn't referring to my bank, Elizabeth. Just banks in general. And I should have clarified, that it should be a trusted and popular 3rd party. As for my bank, it is not backed by a 3rd party. Like my website says. If ever it becomes backed the information on the webpage will be updated. From a personal standpoint, I really like Far Wanderer's self backing, separate wallet division, system. I think if I were to insure my clients' funds it would be within my own corporation. I know that is not appealing to account holders.


Koniforous wrote:

There are several fail safes in place, and I believe that the "what stops me from taking everyone's money" problem has already been fixed. The remaining problem is that people don't take advantage of the fix.

The fix is to switch from a fractional reserve banking model (that most banks in the world use), into a full reserve banking model. Whereby 100% of all deposits are backed with a 3rd party.


Then what is your fix? I cannot see any way people's investments are secure when investing uncollateralized bonds, and in the end that's all you guys are offering. I also cannot see how the self backing separate wallet idea is at all useful, it seems like useless trust-building fluff. What Far Wanderer is basically doing is borrowing money and paying interest on it, but not actually using that money to make a profit.

You might as well just let people keep their ISK in their wallets and have them tell you their balance once a month so you can send them their 4% interest. That would be safer for the investors, and it wouldn't change the way Far Wanderer's business worked because that ISK was just sitting in a wallet doing nothing anyway. Let me know if any of you start this and I'll give you my wallet API so you can send me my monthly interest automatically Bear.
Koniforous
Tauren Transit
#35 - 2014-03-15 21:14:57 UTC
Can you repost your comment on my thread? I'll respond there if you do. I feel like this thread is getting off topic... =/
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