These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

EvE Passive income needs to be removed

First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#101 - 2014-02-20 14:38:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Loraine Gess wrote:
Stitcher wrote:
There is no such thing as passive income generation. That would be if you just dropped something that ticked along merrily increasing the amount of ISK in your wallet at a steady rate without supervision or interaction.

EVE has passive resource generation. Those resource still need to be gathered, processed, transported and either sold or used. They need, in other words, to be actively interacted with in order to turn them into income.

Actually pocos pay out pure isk.

True enough. They're still ISK sinks, though (or at best ISK neutral and even then only if you skip the entire creation process), so the OP's complaint about inflation from passive income sources is still off by miles.
Mara Denais
Mara Denais Tax Evasion
#102 - 2014-02-20 14:38:01 UTC
Loraine Gess wrote:
Stitcher wrote:
There is no such thing as passive income generation. That would be if you just dropped something that ticked along merrily increasing the amount of ISK in your wallet at a steady rate without supervision or interaction.

EVE has passive resource generation. Those resource still need to be gathered, processed, transported and either sold or used. They need, in other words, to be actively interacted with in order to turn them into income.




Actually pocos pay out pure isk.


How much does it cost to put one up?

And given how often the "reinforced" bars pop up all over the place, do they ever get their ROI even close to 1?
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#103 - 2014-02-20 14:39:50 UTC
didn't read the thread, but here goes anyway.

PI isn't all that passive.
Research agent income is very low these days and requires non-trivial investments of isk and time.
moons are moons. Their income has been nerfed recently. But whatevs.
Renting is not passive income.
Research can be very passive, but its also self-regulating because the value of research is well controlled by supply and demand. Not a problem

Isk can't be called a fiat currency at all. In the sink/faucet model such a notion is meaningless. Sinks provide real value for currency.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Tuttomenui II
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#104 - 2014-02-20 14:40:56 UTC
Loraine Gess wrote:
Stitcher wrote:
There is no such thing as passive income generation. That would be if you just dropped something that ticked along merrily increasing the amount of ISK in your wallet at a steady rate without supervision or interaction.

EVE has passive resource generation. Those resource still need to be gathered, processed, transported and either sold or used. They need, in other words, to be actively interacted with in order to turn them into income.




Actually pocos pay out pure isk.


NPC pocos do not. Player owned POCOs just convert an isk sink into an isk syphon, still not an isk faucet. POCOs can be targeted and destroyed and replaced and prime planets fought over and yeah it is basically similar to moon mining but different as it is harvesting isk but it is isk from other players.

And NPC pocos only existed and continue to exist until taken by players to provide a service that was meant to be managed by players. Even if the intention was an afterthought ccp can still claim it was an initial intention so lets not go down that rabbit whole of what ifs? Lol
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#105 - 2014-02-20 14:42:21 UTC
Boring grinding doesn't encourage anyone to subscribe or log in.

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133
unidenify
Deaf Armada
#106 - 2014-02-20 14:42:58 UTC
Aralyn Cormallen wrote:
The OP is clearly batshit, but that aside, I could be down for a trit-based economy, which is what I assume we would operate on if isk didn't exist (can you imagine hauling freighters full of Trit into Jita to buy that officer mod), since without a common trade item (as much as I would love it, I don't think there are enough Long-limbed roes or exotic dancers to base an economy off them Sad), bartering would be a complete clusterfuck of contract orders with odd bartering details.(Hmm, I need to trade some of my Hobgonlins for an Invulnerability Field, so I can trade that for a thousand missiles... urgh).


then someone will set up bank with its own currency for you to use.


all this do is transfer bank power from NPC to Player.
Knights Armament
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#107 - 2014-02-20 14:44:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Knights Armament
La Nariz wrote:
Boring grinding doesn't encourage anyone to subscribe or log in.


In eve the grind is boring due to bad game design. The grind should be incorporated into the game from tutorial until forever, the grind in eve is camping a station to make your enemies cry, thats boring as well. It may be fun though thanks to the social interaction you experience while grinding, which is the point of a social game.

Grinding asteroids is boring, chatting with friends while you both grind asteroids is fun. You're bored because you are boring.

Click here to get something special for new players, an EvE Trial Invitation extremely rare, high quality.
Seven Koskanaiken
Shadow Legions.
SONS of BANE
#108 - 2014-02-20 14:46:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Seven Koskanaiken
0.0 is the pvp realm, only passive income is needed there. High sec is the pve realm. Everyone knows this.
Myriad Blaze
Common Sense Ltd
Nulli Secunda
#109 - 2014-02-20 14:46:36 UTC
Knights Armament wrote:
CCP had an opening for a lead game designer, I applied to the job, but apparently I don't have the qualifications required to tell people what to do.

I am shocked. And I have no idea why CCP turned you down. Shocked


In before ISD LackofFaith Twisted
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#110 - 2014-02-20 14:53:02 UTC
Knights Armament wrote:
La Nariz wrote:
Boring grinding doesn't encourage anyone to subscribe or log in.


In eve the grind is boring due to bad game design. The grind should be incorporated into the game from tutorial until forever, the grind in eve is camping a station to make your enemies cry, thats boring as well. It may be fun though thanks to the social interaction you experience while grinding, which is the point of a social game.

Grinding asteroids is boring, chatting with friends while you both grind asteroids is fun. You're bored because you are boring.


So we should remove the good game design, passive income, and just wait for the bad game design, boring grinding, to be changed. Sounds like the same crappy logic that keeps nullsec in shambles and leaves highsec horribly unbalanced.

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133
Loraine Gess
Confedeferate Union of Tax Legalists
#111 - 2014-02-20 14:54:38 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Loraine Gess wrote:
Stitcher wrote:
There is no such thing as passive income generation. That would be if you just dropped something that ticked along merrily increasing the amount of ISK in your wallet at a steady rate without supervision or interaction.

EVE has passive resource generation. Those resource still need to be gathered, processed, transported and either sold or used. They need, in other words, to be actively interacted with in order to turn them into income.

Actually pocos pay out pure isk.

True enough. They're still ISK sinks, though (or at best ISK neutral and even then only if you skip the entire creation process), so the OP's complaint about inflation from passive income sources is still off by miles.




Yes, they are entirely isk sinks. However the post I responded to claimed there was no passive income generation, they sure are.
Loraine Gess
Confedeferate Union of Tax Legalists
#112 - 2014-02-20 14:55:32 UTC
Mara Denais wrote:
Loraine Gess wrote:
Stitcher wrote:
There is no such thing as passive income generation. That would be if you just dropped something that ticked along merrily increasing the amount of ISK in your wallet at a steady rate without supervision or interaction.

EVE has passive resource generation. Those resource still need to be gathered, processed, transported and either sold or used. They need, in other words, to be actively interacted with in order to turn them into income.




Actually pocos pay out pure isk.


How much does it cost to put one up?

And given how often the "reinforced" bars pop up all over the place, do they ever get their ROI even close to 1?





100m for materials plus taking the old one from the owner.
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#113 - 2014-02-20 14:59:04 UTC
Seven Koskanaiken wrote:
0.0 is the pvp realm, only passive income is needed there. High sec is the pve realm. Everyone knows this.


0.0 pve is more varied and imo fun.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#114 - 2014-02-20 14:59:05 UTC
http://runescape.wikia.com/wiki/Partyhat

And it's not an /entirely/ off topic post.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Agondray
Avenger Mercenaries
VOID Intergalactic Forces
#115 - 2014-02-20 14:59:19 UTC
Yes the items are worth isk like everything else in eve. Pi requires someone else to buy your goods, ratting doesn't require any one to buy from you unless you loot, loot is another matter as it isn't depleatable like pi. I'm sitting in juta logged off right not with 2b in loot that I didn't have to many factor from mins, the loot was randomly created with the distruction if a rat and some one will have to buy my loot much like my pi, it's a player only market. Trade goods on the other hand that is bought by npc stations generate isk as the isk comes from npcs and not a player buying them

"Sarcasm is the Recourse of a weak mind." -Dr. Smith
Seven Koskanaiken
Shadow Legions.
SONS of BANE
#116 - 2014-02-20 15:02:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Seven Koskanaiken
Batelle wrote:
Seven Koskanaiken wrote:
0.0 is the pvp realm, only passive income is needed there. High sec is the pve realm. Everyone knows this.


0.0 pve is more varied and imo fun.


It's fun, but at the same time it's boring, It needs to be buffed in 0.0, but at the same time it absolutely should not be in 0.0.
Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#117 - 2014-02-20 15:03:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Stitcher
Loraine Gess wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Loraine Gess wrote:
Stitcher wrote:
There is no such thing as passive income generation. That would be if you just dropped something that ticked along merrily increasing the amount of ISK in your wallet at a steady rate without supervision or interaction.

EVE has passive resource generation. Those resource still need to be gathered, processed, transported and either sold or used. They need, in other words, to be actively interacted with in order to turn them into income.

Actually pocos pay out pure isk.

True enough. They're still ISK sinks, though (or at best ISK neutral and even then only if you skip the entire creation process), so the OP's complaint about inflation from passive income sources is still off by miles.




Yes, they are entirely isk sinks. However the post I responded to claimed there was no passive income generation, they sure are.


No, no they are not, unless you also think that putting a huge load of Mexallon on the market and letting it sell over the course of a week is passive income. Just because other players are giving you money when you're offline does not suddenly make it "passive".

Passive would be if you did one thing, once, and the game just plugged you directly into an ISK faucet and let it run. Siphoning money off other players by charging them for a commodity or service is not passive, especially when you have to put up with reinforce timers and competition in nearby systems who might be offering a more competitive tariff.

Besides, in my experience the best use of a PoCo is to widen your margins on planetary commodities so that you're not losing most of your profits to the import/export fees, rather than relying on taxation of other players. In which case, you're back to actively interacting with that PoCo again.

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders
hydraSlav
Synergy Evolved
#118 - 2014-02-20 15:09:37 UTC
Why am i here?
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#119 - 2014-02-20 15:11:16 UTC
hydraSlav wrote:
Why am i here?

Karma. Remember all those ants you chased with a magnifying glass? Well… there had to be a reckoning at some point.
Knights Armament
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#120 - 2014-02-20 15:19:58 UTC
I don't have a thing for grannies, my wife is a beautiful former abercrombie model and professional gamer.

Click here to get something special for new players, an EvE Trial Invitation extremely rare, high quality.